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Should we let the tampering of Crabtree go, as suggested?

Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder
[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 17, 2009 at 8:47 PM ]
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

I have to agree with you there.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

no way am i saying that crabs will be jerry rice man not in any way shape or form. the question was would crabtree have made a difference and i say yes based on a couple factors.
the qb play hasn't been great but the wr's haven't either how many passes has bruce dropped? how bad did vd look vs.atl? b.jones and j.hill haven't even hit the field, spurlock has done nothing, Morgan hasn't been that good at all. a better #1 WR would have made a difference
the other rookie wrs mentioned have played very well and i believe crabs is better and would have at least had a similar impact
the presence of a weapon like crabs helps the running game, takes 8 men out of the box, gets better protection for the qb which helps the overall passing game
hill's play has been severly hampered by the ol teams can blitz all day on us because we do not have a killer weapon out there. not saying crabs will def be that guy but he is a def upgrade over what we have seen.
do you disagree with that also?
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be playing better at QB as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.
[ Edited by 49erJim on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM ]
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.
Thank you!
The 49ers don't have to press the matter nor put a stop to the challenge of tampering by the New York Jets. The 49ers already presented enough info. to allow the NFL to begin their investigation of tampering.

It's all on the NFL to follow through or not. It's totally out of the 49ers hands at this point.
Originally posted by XrayEcho:
The 49ers don't have to press the matter nor put a stop to the challenge of tampering by the New York Jets. The 49ers already presented enough info. to allow the NFL to begin their investigation of tampering.

It's all on the NFL to follow through or not. It's totally out of the 49ers hands at this point.

Hopefully they lay the hammer down. It will be nice to see someone else be punished like we were.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.

[ Edited by B650 on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:33 PM ]
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.


you or your buddy can answer any one of my questions.
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.


you or your buddy can answer any one of my questions.

I vote yes to all
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.


you or your buddy can answer any one of my questions.

I vote yes to all

a person of reason. Thank You!
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.


you or your buddy can answer any one of my questions.

1-With Harvin
2-Yes, slightly.
3-Yes

However, the Vikings have a great OL and QB, so Crabtree might not have the same results as Harvin.
[ Edited by B650 on Oct 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM ]
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

That's more than one question.


you or your buddy can answer any one of my questions.

1-With Harvin
2-Yes, slightly.
3-Yes

However, the Vikings have a great OL and QB, so Crabtree might not have the same results as Harvin.

very true. I just think the Jets may have screwed part of our season up and for sure Crabtrees. Its going to be hard for him to come in and try to play to the level of the other rookie's. O Well we always have next season.
Originally posted by 49erJim:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Okay I chose to address these replies in one post. We have enough short sighted thought processes in this thread but these, well I think they are more unreasonable.


1)
Originally posted by matt49er:
Look at the other 1st round WR's that are making an impact Harvin, Maclin...Crabtree is way more talented than those 2 so yes if he signed on time I believe he would have made an impact for us. The Jets need to be seriously punished because it is their fault this long holdout happened.

very true. and crabtree is just a slot guy right now until he learns the offense. he will be a starter once he shows he's learned and mastered all five of jimmy rayes passing plays.

Ummmm 5 passing plays? Apparently you didn't get the gist of my post. That point being that our Offensive production problems stem from the QB position. That position is affecting the Playcalling which in turn affects the Receivers which affects the Line and so on.

So the hell what Crabtree is more talented? Do you honestly want me to go through the history of the NFL and find you OTHER more talented Receivers over their draft peers that failed MISERABLY? I can. Hell Jerry Rice had a QB 10x what Hill is and the guy took a bit in his Rookie season to get started. You saying that Crabtree is a better WR?

2)
Originally posted by B650:
What about all the other drops Bruce had at critical times? You conveniently left those out. How about Morgan dropping a pass right through his hands?

And most importantly, you don't have to catch a pass to alter the defense. I think Crabtree will have an impact, and the offense would've looked different had he been in there since day 1. You remember that deep pass that Bruce caught in Week 1? It was all because the coverage was focused on Vernon Davis. So, don't underestimate the power of having playmakers on the field.

So you're saying that Crabtree would have a) Gotten on the field. b) Caught everything around him. c) So impacts the game that Defenses would just quiver and cave at the sheer notion that he is on the field? I'm not even going to dignify this with a retort.

All I can say is you were included in this reply because you also missed my point. Our QB sucks at anything except being a game managing Backup. There is nothing wrong with that, there have been MANY fine QB Backups that played for the 9ers. But our Coaching staff needs to understand his limits and move forward. Enough time is being wasted.

Originally posted by 49erJim:
dumb post of the week. If Crabtree was in TC from day one or even pre-season, he would have had a huge impact on our team, In fact I bet he would have had a huge game vs Minnesota and we get a win. That means a 4 and 1 record going into our bye.

I'm glad that you can truthfully pre=critique your own work before you type it. Makes it extremely easy for me to agree with you.

But I will try to be nice in helping you see the error of your thought process. You have climbed out on a limb that doesn't exist only to saw it off behind you. For 3 Quarters Shaun Hill led a team on quite a few 3 and outs. The Slot is the 1st guy that the QB looks at. The slot is also typically the fastest Receiver on the team. QB1 will NOT have the time to go back to him unless the Slot recognizing that he is in trouble works his way back toward the LoS and to an open spot that the QB can hit. Our QB can't hit the broad side of a barn consistently. The Opposing Defenses KNOW this. They aren't going to fall for a speedy Rookie slot Receiver who DEPENDS on a soft armed QB. They are going to CONTINUE to stack the box. Negating said slot Receiver.

So guys I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but I do agree that the Jets have to pay a penalty. But it's not going to be as big of one as they deserve nor to the degree that any 9er fan is going to happily accept.

I think they ought to give up all their picks and forgo the draft entirely for one Offseason. But that's NOT going to happen. No matter what I want.

You guys are mistaking Talent for performance. I've seen buttloads of Talented guys come and go over the last 35 years(I'm 40) as a fan of the NFL, hell we've had a few that just didn't pan out that were supposedly some of the better Receivers that ever hit the league. JJ Stokes being just ONE. And I've seen guys on this team that were supposedly not so good who were pretty damn solid and went on to have successful careers elsewhere. Eddie Mac?

I sincerely doubt that any of those guys could make Hill look like the second coming of Dan Fouts. The plays that are being called are because of the QB for pete sake. He HAS the right to audible even. This is on a team that as has been pointed out has Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. You tear down Bruce like he's a scrub not a HoF'er. Morgan somehow lost the ability to be a solid Reciever. etc. etc.

CRABTREE IS A F'N ROOK WHO HAS DONE S4|T! And pardon me for saying this too, but he WILLINGLY held out. The Jets(and another team not named as of yet) did NOT hold a gun to the man's head.

So I think that we're forgetting that disgruntled players can also have a negative impact. Anyone remember how many passes T.O. Alligatored over the length of his final contract with the team?

~Ceadder

Let me ask you one question, do you think Minnesota is better today with WR Rookie Harvin or without him? Do you think Minnesota wins the game at home vs the 49ers witout Rookie WR Harvin? Do you think Crabtree might have given the 49ers a better chance of winning the game vs Minnesota? Do you think the 49ers would be in much better shape with a WR like Crabtree today with a full TC and 5 games of playing time? I think Hill might be palying better as well. Your posts and reasons make very little sense.

It's not that I do not think that a Rookie CAN'T make an impact. It's that you cannot possibly state that Crabtree WOULD have made an immediate impact. Alot of that is dependent on the play at QB and the plays called as a result of that. Now if you could guarantee that Crabtree could somehow get Hill to throw even a TOLERABLE spiral that is on target and Raye could open up the playbook as a result of that, then yes Crabtree could have made an impact. But I'm still questioning this reasoning based on what I know of the overall situation on the Offense.

On most any other team? Yes Crabtree COULD have made an impact. On this team, not so much.

And that's all that I've been saying from the beginning.

~Ceadder
[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:04 PM ]
i believe this tampering case has been swept under the rug by the east coast bias NFL