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Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Weren't we 2-0 the last time he was healthy and starting? This is dumb.

Shaun Hill is doing exactly what Smith is doing but with a much better team. He's managing the game and making plays when necessary. (comparing first two games of 09 vs 07).

That said I think Hill is doing a better job of the above. But to think we'd be 0-2 with Alex is unfounded. This is gores offense not Shauns or Alex's offense or any Qbs offense.

Gore ftw.


Gore didnt win us the game vs. Arizona. Nor did he win it for us against STL or Washington last year. Hill made the throws to lead us to victory.

Besides the Seattle game, when did Smith do this for us ? Also, note that all the games Ive listed show that Hill has done this CONSISTENTLY. Unfortunately, you'll have to go back through 3 years worth of play to pull out 2-3 good DRIVES (not games) to defend Smith.

Against Arizona in 2007?


Oh geez. Can we PLEASE stop talking about the SAME two games and the SAME 2 drives when discussing Smith ? Yes, i get it. He showed signs of becoming the next Joe Montana in both those DRIVES, but the question in doubt is CONSISTENCY. I am using Hill's stats over a period of time where he showcased leadership on a weekly basis. Can you do the same for Smith, where he solely led our team from behind consistently without relying on Gore ?
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Weren't we 2-0 the last time he was healthy and starting? This is dumb.

Shaun Hill is doing exactly what Smith is doing but with a much better team. He's managing the game and making plays when necessary. (comparing first two games of 09 vs 07).

That said I think Hill is doing a better job of the above. But to think we'd be 0-2 with Alex is unfounded. This is gores offense not Shauns or Alex's offense or any Qbs offense.

Gore ftw.


Gore didnt win us the game vs. Arizona. Nor did he win it for us against STL or Washington last year. Hill made the throws to lead us to victory.

Besides the Seattle game, when did Smith do this for us ? Also, note that all the games Ive listed show that Hill has done this CONSISTENTLY. Unfortunately, you'll have to go back through 3 years worth of play to pull out 2-3 good DRIVES (not games) to defend Smith.

Against Arizona in 2007?


Oh geez. Can we PLEASE stop talking about the SAME two games and the SAME 2 drives when discussing Smith ? Yes, i get it. He showed signs of becoming the next Joe Montana in both those DRIVES, but the question in doubt is CONSISTENCY. I am using Hill's stats over a period of time where he showcased leadership on a weekly basis. Can you do the same for Smith, where he solely led our team from behind consistently without relying on Gore ?

Seriously, take thoese five minutes off his resume and you have JUNK.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
I'd say we'd be 1-1.


a pick or 2 here and there in the 'zona game and we lose. Hill won the game for us.


a pick or 2 here and there in the Seattle game and we still win. Gore won the game for us.

Just like those picks he threw in the first two games of 06 and 07? Oh wait...

Didnt make nearly as many 3rd down conversions as hill did either... and thats where the difference would have been... and please dont bring up that run either.

Hill has had a much higher completion %,

Why wouldn't he have a higher % ? 95% of his throws are 7 yards or less in distance, and usually to the first dump read. Even if he has plenty of time, he takes the easy short pass, and often gets rewarded with RAC yards. Alex takes more shots down the field and would hold it a lil longer for a chance at a deeper pass (but not excessively like JTO) Only Alex is more careful with the ball and better in the pocket than JTO proved to be. Hill is the safest (luckiest) of the bunch, and simply loves the short stuff. He has an ugly deep ball, and his decision making and accuracy is less than good when it comes to intermediate + deeper passes.

Hill has been doing just enough to help the defense and Gore win games... so he will remain our starter for a while... and one day when Gore and/or the defense fails... Hill will be required to do more. Then we will see if he can get things done. I hope he can, because the Niners come first with me... but do I think he can? .... eh, probably not.

But the end results have been more total passing yards per game, more passing TDs, fewer turnovers, and better winning percentage for Hill versus Smith. Look it up.
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.

are you for real that 50 yard pass would have never been completed and he would not have we would have lost the cards game cuz Gore went nowhere and it was up to Hill to bring us back for the score and i thing Smith would have been sacked 9 times in that game ! [/indent]
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
I'd say we'd be 1-1.


a pick or 2 here and there in the 'zona game and we lose. Hill won the game for us.


a pick or 2 here and there in the Seattle game and we still win. Gore won the game for us.

Just like those picks he threw in the first two games of 06 and 07? Oh wait...

Didnt make nearly as many 3rd down conversions as hill did either... and thats where the difference would have been... and please dont bring up that run either.

Hill has had a much higher completion %,


This offense is designed to be more efficient (considering Hill has a harder time throwing downfield). But I agree.

But at the same time...we were 2-0. And why not bring up that 25 yard run on 4th an 1? Didnt Smith do that? Had Hill done that wouldnt we be bringing that up? Lets compare apples to apples.

I dont understand how someone can say we'd be 2-0 with Smith. SMITH WON the game in AZ. He had a PERFECTLY thrown TD pass to DJack in the waning seconds but of course DJack drops it and then we do the reverse. Smith drove us down the field though and we won the game. Just like Hill helped us in in the end of 2008, Smith helped us win those 2 games.

The Rams game could have been lost though but we got lucky with them missing the FG (2007 week 2). Smith was efficient though...11/17.

Look, I agree Hill is doing better...my whole point isnt "Hill vs Smith" its that I disagree with the notion that a HEALTHY Smith would be 0-2 with THIS roster.
Nope we would of lost in Zona.
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Weren't we 2-0 the last time he was healthy and starting? This is dumb.

Shaun Hill is doing exactly what Smith is doing but with a much better team. He's managing the game and making plays when necessary. (comparing first two games of 09 vs 07).

That said I think Hill is doing a better job of the above. But to think we'd be 0-2 with Alex is unfounded. This is gores offense not Shauns or Alex's offense or any Qbs offense.

Gore ftw.


Gore didnt win us the game vs. Arizona. Nor did he win it for us against STL or Washington last year. Hill made the throws to lead us to victory.

Besides the Seattle game, when did Smith do this for us ? Also, note that all the games Ive listed show that Hill has done this CONSISTENTLY. Unfortunately, you'll have to go back through 3 years worth of play to pull out 2-3 good DRIVES (not games) to defend Smith.

Against Arizona in 2007?


Oh geez. Can we PLEASE stop talking about the SAME two games and the SAME 2 drives when discussing Smith ? Yes, i get it. He showed signs of becoming the next Joe Montana in both those DRIVES, but the question in doubt is CONSISTENCY. I am using Hill's stats over a period of time where he showcased leadership on a weekly basis. Can you do the same for Smith, where he solely led our team from behind consistently without relying on Gore ?

Seriously, take thoese five minutes off his resume and you have JUNK.

i know. f**kin a. it's insane.
Hey I got and Idea for a NEW Thread....

If my aunt had balls would she be my uncle!


As for 2-0 with Alex now way he wins the Arizona game, that 'Zona D looked mighty tough that day!
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.

Who could say, but we would have at least 1 or 2 ints thrown by now. If that would have happened in the Tard game, we could have lost. But who knows.

Hill should have been intercepted numerous times in the Arizona game. He got very lucky.

All things set aside, I believe we'd still be 2-0 right now with the way our D is playing. Hill has been very average so far, and I don't doubt that Alex could've played at least as well.

Well the same can be said of this weeks opponent Favre-he gets very lucky

as throws in places he shouldn't and that's not me but countless commentators including madden. Or a lot of QBs.



Dude step away from the Huka, Favre is pretty damn accurate on his deep throws. And let's not forget that he will throw INTs' only to come back again. Turnovers do NOT affect him to the point where he just stops looking for the big play.

With Shaun an almost turnover shuts down that part of his game. Not that he ever really had a deep game to begin with but he's gonna shut it down when the Opponent almost has his number.

That is NOT a good thing, when you want to take Defenders out of the box against your Run game.

I won't even nail you on the comparison stuff, since I don't believe that you meant to compare the two. In any case Favre can at least torch teams with his game. Shaun? Not so much.

~Ceadder


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder
Now that was a mouthful, ceadder. I do think much of the Hill hype comes from the hate and fear of Alex starting again one day. People are so determined to keep him on the bench by inflating any QB not named Smith. At this point, I wish people can just move on and enjoy some football. If Hill really is good enough, he will keep his job. If not, then Alex will get his chance and then we see whether he now has what it takes. That's it... all I can hope for is that people keep it real and judge the performances fairly... meaning that they are genuine assessments and are not made due to QB desperation or a personal agenda/bias against the other QB.
[ Edited by oldman9er on Sep 24, 2009 at 6:08 PM ]
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.
[ Edited by B650 on Sep 24, 2009 at 6:13 PM ]
he isn't! shaun hill is 2-0. so why are we talking about alex smith? i hope he never plays as a 49er again!
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:


Anyone here that is making the legitimate argument that Shaun is not what people think he is, just stop.

People hate Smith so much that they are unwilling to even concede the point that...

1) Shaun's stats reflect who he is. A back up playing in a Starting role.

2) That his arm is well below average and it affects the Offense(If this were the other way around Smith's likeness would be a smoldering pile of ashes by now) and that of the amount of time spent of the field by our Defense.

3) Superman Shaun Hill holds the ball too freakin long, and can cost us games when the opponent strip sacks him. Nevermind that it happened right in front of their disbelieving eyes.

This is behind a BETTER Offensive Line that Smith NEVER had in front of him.

It's too early to yank the plug. I just wish people would straight up call a Spade a Spade in regards to Hill. I've NEVER seen such one sided love for a guy that didn't deserve it.

Anyone remember the photoshop thread? I'd have to say well over 75% of the posts there were negatively about Kwame. Regardless if he deserved it or not.

What is Hill a freakin Liberal Democrat(Common man my ass) and Smith(Big business degree holder) *gasp* a Republican?

It's the ONLY thing that makes sense from the looks of things. People seem to be so full of hatred for anyone that has money that when they have 50 mil sitting in their account and "did nothing to earn it" they gotta be haters. So in the end I guess what I would like to know is if they got PAID that money instead of Smith would they return it for sitting on their butts and doing absolutely nothing to warrant the pay day?

They're lying if they say "Yes I would".

It's the system NOT the players.

The only difference that I see is that Smith CAN take chances because he has the arm to back it up. Does ANYONE truly believe that Smith will start freelancing if he was given the yob over Hill?

That's the quickest way right back to the bench on Sing's team. Nevermind that this has NEVER been about Smith. The haters only make it about Smith. This is about HILL and how poorly he IS playing. Y'all need ta get over yourselves.

~Ceadder

I think Smith people are too enamored with the fact that he could take chances because of his arm strength. Sure, he could. But he also throws more interceptions because of those chances, and right now, we can't afford that. The only reason people like Smith is because he has a stronger arm. Get over it. He has horrible footwork. He stares down receivers. He throws too many picks. He fumbles. He has bad accuracy. He makes bad decisions. He gets hurt a lot. He loses. Focus on reality and get off his precious throwing arm which is stronger than Hill's. Look, Brady doesn't have the strongest arm either. Steve Young didn't have a cannon. Montana didn't have a cannon. Garcia didn't have a cannon. They were good not because of their arm, but because of their mind. I would've loved to see Smith out there because of his physical talent, but there comes a time when you just have to move on. Hill wins games. He's smart. And we have a guy with a stronger arm sitting behind him: Nate Davis.

Ummm I think that GOAT and Taylor and just about anyone that ever caught a pass from Steve would disagree.

Smith doesn't have a "cannon" either. But what you are disregarding is not what happened, both good or bad, but that the Line in front of Smith has for the most part been atrocious. That will make even the good ones look bad. Steve had one of the WORST Lines in front of him when he played for the Bucs. They were getting him killed. So bad in fact that he determined that he was better off RUNNING the ball.

Only when he got to us and decided to be a QB, did he have success. Smith is in that boat NOW. I'm not and will NEVER state that he is a future HoF'er, but it's pretty damn sad that alot of 9er fans can't get over the past. It's past, right? What about the future? Smith looked pretty damn polished in OTAs' and TC as well as Preseason. His footwork was there, his decision making from what I could see, was there. And the players were responding to both players equally well.

So as much as people are dead set against Smith starting, it makes no sense, given that in the same situation that Hill is in Smith "can't" do the job. Even if he could be better.

Don't be too surprised if Hill falters much, that Smith gets the nod and does a better job. So far as this Line can continue to protect whomever is back there.

But c'mon guy, Nate? Do you REALLY want to take the chance and screw up HIS development? Like the team screwed up Alex's? Cause what Nate's supporters are saying is that he could do the job better than 1 and 2. This is not Preseason. There won't be an Opposing Defense that is made up primarily of 3rd and 4th teamers. And it's full speed, balls to the wall. Let that man sit and ruminate on what it takes to do the job. If the job isn't done well, he will see it. If it is, even better for his future. Which is what I wish that Nolan had done with Smith. Instead of throwing the kid to the wolves. Unfortunately injuries and a trade did not allow for that.

As much as I know I'm going to hear about this, I just want our coaching staff to learn from past mistakes.

~Ceadder
9-3 win loss for SH vs 11-19 for AS (9-14 if you throw out his rookie season).

game over.

This is the only stat that matters