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These wins are great, but

  • TowelBoy
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Originally posted by 9erfreak:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
So let me get this straight.

To everyone in this thread who has treated me like s*** for suggesting Hill is a below average quarterback:
Quote:
do you feel Hill can win us a championship?

That's really all I'm asking.
Even if the answer is no, I agree that doesn't necessitate we bench him tomorrow. Now that we have throttled our two main rivals, I am just expressing my concern that this team will be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to do any damage.

A lot of us are excited about our options in next year's draft. With two picks, we'll probably be in a position to make a move for a franchise quarterback. The only problem is that doesn't help us at all in this year's playoffs, plus I'm sick and tired of rooting for draft position.

I can't shake the feeling that almost every single team in the NFL has a better starting QB than we do. Sure, we're 2-0, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't also be 2-0 with Alex Smith or Nate Davis or Joey freaking Harrington behind center.

So, are there no QBs out there who could be had for a mid-round pick that would at least boost the potential potency of our offense? Any love for Derek Anderson out there now that the Quinn era has begun in Cleveland? Remember, he led the Browns to 10-6 a couple years ago. Does Kellen Clemens still have any potential now that Sanchez has been given the reigns in New York?

Other ideas?

If the 49ers win the NFC West/make the playoffs, it would be a huge accomplishment within itself, but to have expectations of the Niners making SB run this early in the season is highly unrealistic.

With the multiple positions that still need addressing, bringing in a has been FA QB and benching S Hill even though he hasnt had a bad or game altering performance would be a major distraction to the Offense. S Hill has practiced for weeks with the starters to suddenly throw a new signal caller in would likely be a disasterous approach and could cause players to question the reasoning behind the coaches desicions.

Why bench a player that not only isin't costing the team games? Hill is doing what is expected from him managing the game and not turning the ball over. The players from what i've read have really responded well to S Hill's command of the huddle, and have built a continuity from working together. Why distroy that rythem?

Good example The Cowgirls ran for well over 200 yards rushing just as the Niners did today, yet S Hill didn't throw 3 INTs and put his team in position to lose with sloppy undisapplined play.

Another very good post, thanks.
been down with #11 through thick and then, but when your winning there are no but's. As long as we win with Hill in he should be the guy no questions asked.
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by ninerfreak:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by ninerfreak:

your argument is getting confusing, so what are you trying to say then?

Let's see if I can clear it up.

Compared to, say, Peyton Manning, there are least two main areas where Hill comes up well short.

The first is in numbers. Many seem to think that is the deficiency I am attempting to highlight, though this is not the case.

The second is the eye test. How he throws, when he throws, the decisions he makes on a play-to-play basis, his awareness, etc.

These are the only reasons, not his numbers, why I believe Hill is a below average starter.

i can name 30 other QB's that come up short to manning

so what is it you want? find a replacement asap for hill?

Hah, you got me. I clarified my point, but I missed a step.

Now that we're clear it's the eye test and not the fantasy numbers I'm after, I should add that I don't just think he comes up a little short of Peyton Manning. I'm saying there are a lot of mediocre quarterbacks out there that I watch and think they could do more with Hill's weapons than Hill does.

Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows.

Why don't you just get to the point and say you don't like Shaun Hill and stop dancing around the issue!
Originally posted by 9erfreak:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
So let me get this straight.

To everyone in this thread who has treated me like s*** for suggesting Hill is a below average quarterback:
Quote:
do you feel Hill can win us a championship?

That's really all I'm asking.
Even if the answer is no, I agree that doesn't necessitate we bench him tomorrow. Now that we have throttled our two main rivals, I am just expressing my concern that this team will be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to do any damage.

A lot of us are excited about our options in next year's draft. With two picks, we'll probably be in a position to make a move for a franchise quarterback. The only problem is that doesn't help us at all in this year's playoffs, plus I'm sick and tired of rooting for draft position.

I can't shake the feeling that almost every single team in the NFL has a better starting QB than we do. Sure, we're 2-0, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't also be 2-0 with Alex Smith or Nate Davis or Joey freaking Harrington behind center.

So, are there no QBs out there who could be had for a mid-round pick that would at least boost the potential potency of our offense? Any love for Derek Anderson out there now that the Quinn era has begun in Cleveland? Remember, he led the Browns to 10-6 a couple years ago. Does Kellen Clemens still have any potential now that Sanchez has been given the reigns in New York?

Other ideas?

If the 49ers win the NFC West/make the playoffs, it would be a huge accomplishment within itself, but to have expectations of the Niners making SB run this early in the season is highly unrealistic.

With the multiple positions that still need addressing, bringing in a has been FA QB and benching S Hill even though he hasnt had a bad or game altering performance would be a major distraction to the Offense. S Hill has practiced for weeks with the starters to suddenly throw a new signal caller in would likely be a disasterous approach and could cause players to question the reasoning behind the coaches desicions.

Why bench a player that not only isin't costing the team games? Hill is doing what is expected from him managing the game and not turning the ball over. The players from what i've read have really responded well to S Hill's command of the huddle, and have built a continuity from working together. Why distroy that rythem?

Good example The Cowgirls ran for well over 200 yards rushing just as the Niners did today, yet S Hill didn't throw 3 INTs and put his team in position to lose with sloppy undisapplined play.


A little perspective in this thread was refreshing.
I dont really care as long as he wins but at the same time he played great last year and i want to see more of that. he seems to have totally forgotten about josh morgan and hes been wide open but he doesnt get the ball. i dont see why it is wrong to want shaun hill to play his best. i like him, he seems like a good guy and he wins, but i have seen him play a lot better. i just want to see him play as well as he can, and a lot of people seem to have a similar pov as i do, but the moment you say he needs to step it up because he can or whatever, you get bashed by people. i dunno, im willing to give him time to get more farmilliarity and stuff with the offense, but i want to see the shaun hill of last year.
  • TowelBoy
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Originally posted by Kauaiguy:


Why don't you just get to the point and say you don't like Shaun Hill and stop dancing around the issue!

I would say I like Shaun Hill as our starting QB, but I don't love him as our starting QB.

And yes, some of the good posts in this thread have gone a long way toward easing my concerns. Not only would I like to see Hill succeed (that goes without saying), but I would love to see him transcend the level I perceive him to be at.
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
First of all, enough with the fantasy football jokes. Do I play fantasy football? Sure. You'll be pleased to know I don't have Hill, however. As I tried to make perfectly clear (for instance, by completely leaving "numbers" out of my original post), my opinion was based purely on my own observations.

Second, I get what you all are saying with the record, but it's a very weak argument. Great quarterbacks can be the cause of wins, but it's a fallacy to reverse it. Wins in and of themselves don't determine that you, in fact, have a great quarterback in place. In my humble opinion based on watching both games, we won in spite of having a below average quarterback at the helm. When the going gets tough, and we need him to come through, I have a strong suspicion he will come up well short.

Did you even watch the 1st game against Cardinals? Who drove down the field in the 4th qtr to win the game? Who threw the winning TD? Just be happy and complain when he actually loses a game for us.
Sean routinely misses open receivers and his lack of arm strength to go down field is generally not considered to be a running game's best friend. That said he is doing enough to put his team in a position to win football games and not "Delhome-ing or Romo-ing games away.

Today's win for me was a much more satisfying win than last week. The team played a more complete game than last week thus illustrating improvement. Particularly the O-line. I'm glad they have enough pride to not let last week's pathetic performance stand. That's really all we can ask for.

Yeah sure it would be nice if Hill saw the field a little better and had a better arm but he doesn't make a lot of boneheaded plays either.

I have a good feeling about Nate Davis down the road and I genuinely hope the best for AS but for now I'll take these clunky wins and I'll gladly take another one on the road next week against the Vikes. A win where Pwilly again pwns Peterson and SF grinds the Vikes into the ground by kicking their ass with defense and the plodding offense.

Here is a thought.. a couple actually: AZ beat the Jags pretty badly today yet they couldn't do squat against SF. Maybe SF is better than we think it is. Maybe the NFC west ends up being a better division than their getting credit for.

I'm excited that we're not making every opposing QB look like Joe Effing Montana like we used to. Remember those days?
shaun is not Joe Montana but he has been clutch these last two games, when he needs to make plays he makes em and he hasnt turned the ball over. his decision making could be better, his arm strength isnt as bad as some say but it is on the weak side, his passes dont have that zip that you would like most of the time, he stares receivers down too long... but even with these flaws he gets results and he is safe with the ball. i think some of his flaws will go away as he gets more experience, remember he may be a 6 or 7 year veteran but how many games has he actually played? not many. he will continue to get better and will serve just fine as our QB this year. if we think Hill isnt enough at years end, we have davis who would by then have a whole year in the offense and have a pretty good grasp on the system and we have a couple 1st rounders to possibly take a QB if need be or we can sign a FA QB because we have plenty of cap space. we are in very good position to succeed very soon. Shaun is just fine under center, give the guy a chance, no matter what he does people bash him.
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Originally posted by TowelBoy:
they are letting Hill keep his job longer than he merits. He has absolutely horrendous pocket awareness; sometimes he literally sacks himself by running into people, and he flashes the football right at the pass rushers he doesn't know are there. His accuracy is very hit or miss, usually miss. What limited production he does muster comes mostly from screens to Gore and Davis.

He's had one or two throws a game so far that have made me raise an eyebrow (impressed), but they can't overshadow the fact that he's a well below average NFL quarterback. I'm pretty torn about this season now. I'd be so thrilled for us to finally win another division title, but I don't think we'd have any shot whatsoever in the playoffs.

I'm no football expert, but I find it hard to believe that Alex Smith is actually worse than Hill. Supposedly, what Hill has going for him is that he's a "gamer" and he "manages the game" and he has an impressive record in a limited sample. Well, Smith has had his moments too. He had a "gamer" comeback against the Cardinals a couple years ago that had everyone buzzing about the second coming.

But I digress. If Smith is really and truly a bust, we need to get serious about 2009 success and trade for a quarterback.

Do you work for and NFL team?

or are you basing your "facts" on your view from a couch?

Is Hill lighting up the league? NO
Is Hill getting world class protection? NO
Has Hill had a full season with a new cord? NO

Is Hill 2-0 this season? YES
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Iam so sick of the oh he wins bulls**t. He's play 2 very very s**tty games. His gw drive last sunday should have have been stopped 2 f**king times because he threw into double and triple coverage. He has no pocket awarness what so ever and a god awfl throwing motion at least 2 of his passes get batted down at the line a game. He gets rattled wayy to easy and just runs into his teamates. If it was for the d lastweek and the d and gore this week people would be callin for the guys head. Next week will definatly show hills weaknesses. I lve gore but seattle was all banged up on d you take a good d like arizona was that can wrap up and tackle and they stack the box were f**ked. Yes I'm very excited about the team wins but my doubts are still there when we take the lead we just go into prevent mode on offense its lame good teams attack. Seriously though hill didn't look to much better than smith and smith looked crappy to. I've lost faith in alex but imo this team would be better off with alex. Hill has done nothing to impress me so far. He doesn't even look at all his wrs he needs to learn to turn his god damn head



Should have, could have, but didnĀ“t.
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Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Iam so sick of the oh he wins bulls**t. He's play 2 very very s**tty games. His gw drive last sunday should have have been stopped 2 f**king times because he threw into double and triple coverage. He has no pocket awarness what so ever and a god awfl throwing motion at least 2 of his passes get batted down at the line a game. He gets rattled wayy to easy and just runs into his teamates. If it was for the d lastweek and the d and gore this week people would be callin for the guys head. Next week will definatly show hills weaknesses. I lve gore but seattle was all banged up on d you take a good d like arizona was that can wrap up and tackle and they stack the box were f**ked. Yes I'm very excited about the team wins but my doubts are still there when we take the lead we just go into prevent mode on offense its lame good teams attack. Seriously though hill didn't look to much better than smith and smith looked crappy to. I've lost faith in alex but imo this team would be better off with alex. Hill has done nothing to impress me so far. He doesn't even look at all his wrs he needs to learn to turn his god damn head

funny...they used to say the same things about Garcia.
I hear the worlds smallest violin playing..........

Originally posted by mavfd9er:
I hear the worlds smallest violin playing..........


I think Smith is a better QB and I think as soon as we start losing Smith will play, but I can't say he'll do good. We better draft a QB in the 2nd round next year, cuz we need a OL, DL, or S with the 2 first rounders unless we can get Bradford