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These wins are great, but

imo it's still too early to tell if Hill is the long term guy that can win the big playoff games...he hasn't had much playing time...if u push Rayes playcalling aside i think Hill gets better with each game...thats just my opinion though
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by oscarug:
Hill is doing just fine

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I was wondering if you could elaborate. Under certain, circumstances, a 2-0 start would be more than enough to convince me we have a stud under center. But these games have just not done that. I very often feel he's just not making plays he should be making. We've done a pretty good job on defense and in the running game (today, at least) overcoming this, but it doesn't give me a ton of confidence as we attempt to move from a pretender to a contender.

Look, ball control/defense/running football is legit. A lot of great teams have won a lot of games that way. I'm not looking to change the style of the offense and start airing it out. Like I said in a previous post, I just don't feel Hill is a quarterback that will be able to step up if we ever need a comeback or a late-game drive to close things out.

Am I really alone here?

No you are not alone. Winning tends to mask underlying problems.. you know.. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But I agree with you on Hill, he has looked terrible, clueless, most of the time he is in there. Hill has stepped up and truly led exactly one drive against the Cards. I'll admit, I am in the Smith camp, but when Hill was named the starter, I became a Hill supporter. But any objective observer can see that he looks horrible and overall our passing attack looks pathetic. I don't care if he looks stylish or pretty, just competent and capable.

So far we are 2-0 and that's great, but face it we are 2-0 because of our defense, not because of Hill. At some point Hill will have have to open it up to win a game and I have my doubts...
yea that 50 yard pass to bruce was just hiddeous...come on man really???
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by oscarug:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
I'm no football expert

Yup. Time to throw in the towel, boy.


Steve Young: Hill is not a good QB he is a great QB!!!

http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/audio/Steve-Young-on-KNBR/ef2dc15a-2032-4bc8-9162-10acfe31538d


HAHAHAHA Steve Young blatantly said you Hill doubters don't know football.....hmmmm I think I'll take Steve's words of some here on the Zone.

Great interview!!!! thankx for the link.

I'm not going to take the time to listen to it, but if Steve really says Hill is a great quarterback, that is a pretty convincing endorsement.

well he didn't say Shaun is a "Great" QB more so defended how Shaun has been playing....as far as managing the game for the situation we are in......so Young says that is Great QBing.

so since we are winning and we are driving the ball, why should we throw it deep just because there is one on one when we can take the underneath and continue the drive and take a less chance of something funky happening....but if Hill is needed to make plays (ex. tie game/we are losing) then he will have to make plays....like he has these past two games when we needed him.

When we see Hill just sit back there looking indecisive...maybe he is waiting for a WR to clearly break open....or maybe Shaun is just thinking too much about making sure if its worth it or not and thus takes the sack....

I think after a few more games he will start to really settle in.

I personally feel he is playing inconsistent early in games (but GREAT when we need him)....that can also attribute to the play calling.....but there are plays I would hope he would either tuck the ball in and run for some positive yardage or throw the ball away.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Sep 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM ]
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by oscarug:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
I'm no football expert

Yup. Time to throw in the towel, boy.


Steve Young: Hill is not a good QB he is a great QB!!!

http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/audio/Steve-Young-on-KNBR/ef2dc15a-2032-4bc8-9162-10acfe31538d


HAHAHAHA Steve Young blatantly said you Hill doubters don't know football.....hmmmm I think I'll take Steve's words of some here on the Zone.

Great interview!!!! thankx for the link.

I'm not going to take the time to listen to it, but if Steve really says Hill is a great quarterback, that is a pretty convincing endorsement.

well he didn't say Shaun is a "Great" QB more so defended how Shaun has been playing....as far as managing the game for the situation we are in......so Young has that is Great QBing.

so since we are winning and we are driving the ball, why should we throw it deep just because there is one on one when we can take the underneath and continue the drive and take a less chance of something funky happening....but if Hill is needed to make plays (ex. tie game/we are losing) then he will have to make plays....like he has these past two games when we needed him.

When we see Hill just sit back there looking indecisive...maybe he is waiting for a WR to clearly break open....or maybe Shaun is just thinking too much about making sure if its worth it or not and thus takes the sack....

I think after a few more games he will start to really settle in.

I personally feel he is playing inconsistent early in games (but GREAT when we need him)....that can also attribute to the play calling.....but there are plays I would hope he would either tuck the ball in and run for some positive yardage or throw the ball away.

I agree that some of it is mental, as in, not trusting his OL enough to stand there calmly and find the open receiver. It's weird though because Hill seems fine in the 1st and 4th quarters. I don't know but he seems to start well and end well.

Maybe he knows that his role is to not lose the game, so he's indecisive at times. When the game was on the line in Arizona and we were down, I didn't see any indecisiveness at all. His mentality went from "don't make mistakes" to "we must win." So I think a part of it might just be the scenario he's in, the play calling, his mindset, etc. He has to play like he played in the 4th quarter in Arizona though in order for us to beat Minnesota. We can't rely on Gore alone.
[ Edited by B650 on Sep 21, 2009 at 3:49 PM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by oscarug:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
I'm no football expert

Yup. Time to throw in the towel, boy.


Steve Young: Hill is not a good QB he is a great QB!!!

http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/audio/Steve-Young-on-KNBR/ef2dc15a-2032-4bc8-9162-10acfe31538d


HAHAHAHA Steve Young blatantly said you Hill doubters don't know football.....hmmmm I think I'll take Steve's words of some here on the Zone.

Great interview!!!! thankx for the link.

I'm not going to take the time to listen to it, but if Steve really says Hill is a great quarterback, that is a pretty convincing endorsement.

well he didn't say Shaun is a "Great" QB more so defended how Shaun has been playing....as far as managing the game for the situation we are in......so Young has that is Great QBing.

so since we are winning and we are driving the ball, why should we throw it deep just because there is one on one when we can take the underneath and continue the drive and take a less chance of something funky happening....but if Hill is needed to make plays (ex. tie game/we are losing) then he will have to make plays....like he has these past two games when we needed him.

When we see Hill just sit back there looking indecisive...maybe he is waiting for a WR to clearly break open....or maybe Shaun is just thinking too much about making sure if its worth it or not and thus takes the sack....

I think after a few more games he will start to really settle in.

I personally feel he is playing inconsistent early in games (but GREAT when we need him)....that can also attribute to the play calling.....but there are plays I would hope he would either tuck the ball in and run for some positive yardage or throw the ball away.

i agree with everything u said in this post...just wanted to add that Hill doesn't even have 15 starts under his belt yet...i think alot of the negatives will fizzle out or be gone by start 20 or so.
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
yea that 50 yard pass to bruce was just hiddeous...come on man really???

That was one pass, one, if you look at rest of his work so far this season, he has looked horrible.

Actually, that one pass covered about 35 yards in the air, maybe 40. Any HS QB can make that throw. Take that pass away and Hill's average is about 150 yds/game and his longest pass is maybe 15 yards.

On the positive side, there have been no interceptions, so that makes him way better than JTO.

Sure the guy is a gamer, he has a winning record and even runs w/o a helmut once in awhile. That doesn't mean he is a good QB, he is a fair to average QB with skills better suited to a backup.
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
yea that 50 yard pass to bruce was just hiddeous...come on man really???

That was one pass, one, if you look at rest of his work so far this season, he has looked horrible.

Actually, that one pass covered about 35 yards in the air, maybe 40. Any HS QB can make that throw. Take that pass away and Hill's average is about 150 yds/game and his longest pass is maybe 15 yards.

On the positive side, there have been no interceptions, so that makes him way better than JTO.

Sure the guy is a gamer, he has a winning record and even runs w/o a helmut once in awhile. That doesn't mean he is a good QB, he is a fair to average QB with skills better suited to a backup.

But what are we really talking about here? That someone else on this roster should be ahead of him, and he should be the backup? I don't think so.
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
yea that 50 yard pass to bruce was just hiddeous...come on man really???

That was one pass, one, if you look at rest of his work so far this season, he has looked horrible.

Actually, that one pass covered about 35 yards in the air, maybe 40. Any HS QB can make that throw. Take that pass away and Hill's average is about 150 yds/game and his longest pass is maybe 15 yards.

On the positive side, there have been no interceptions, so that makes him way better than JTO.

Sure the guy is a gamer, he has a winning record and even runs w/o a helmut once in awhile. That doesn't mean he is a good QB, he is a fair to average QB with skills better suited to a backup.

i completely disagree with you...how can one be UNDEFEATED at home and NOT be at least a "good qb"....come on dude give props where they are due
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by TowelBoy:
Originally posted by oscarug:
Hill is doing just fine

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I was wondering if you could elaborate. Under certain, circumstances, a 2-0 start would be more than enough to convince me we have a stud under center. But these games have just not done that. I very often feel he's just not making plays he should be making. We've done a pretty good job on defense and in the running game (today, at least) overcoming this, but it doesn't give me a ton of confidence as we attempt to move from a pretender to a contender.

Look, ball control/defense/running football is legit. A lot of great teams have won a lot of games that way. I'm not looking to change the style of the offense and start airing it out. Like I said in a previous post, I just don't feel Hill is a quarterback that will be able to step up if we ever need a comeback or a late-game drive to close things out.

Am I really alone here?

No you are not alone. Winning tends to mask underlying problems.. you know.. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But I agree with you on Hill, he has looked terrible, clueless, most of the time he is in there. Hill has stepped up and truly led exactly one drive against the Cards. I'll admit, I am in the Smith camp, but when Hill was named the starter, I became a Hill supporter. But any objective observer can see that he looks horrible and overall our passing attack looks pathetic. I don't care if he looks stylish or pretty, just competent and capable.

So far we are 2-0 and that's great, but face it we are 2-0 because of our defense, not because of Hill. At some point Hill will have have to open it up to win a game and I have my doubts...

Until Raye opens up the offense like he did in the drive that clinched the game in week one, we won't know. They say that a runner gets stronger in the 4th quarter, well if your arm is cold and you only once in a while-then you are not as accurate-you don't get in a rythmn, I'm sorry but that is the truth-the more you do then the more you can do. right now we are a running team and that is what we do.
Hill has a winning record as a starter. Knows how to put the ball in the receivers' hands. It doesn't matter if they are short routes or drag routes, as long as they get us yards and a first down. The offense is managing the game and winning the time of possession. At this point, I don't care if he can throw a 70 yard bomb. He's perfect to run this modified version of the west coast offense.
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
yea that 50 yard pass to bruce was just hiddeous...come on man really???

That was one pass, one, if you look at rest of his work so far this season, he has looked horrible.

Actually, that one pass covered about 35 yards in the air, maybe 40. Any HS QB can make that throw. Take that pass away and Hill's average is about 150 yds/game and his longest pass is maybe 15 yards.

On the positive side, there have been no interceptions, so that makes him way better than JTO.

Sure the guy is a gamer, he has a winning record and even runs w/o a helmut once in awhile. That doesn't mean he is a good QB, he is a fair to average QB with skills better suited to a backup.

i completely disagree with you...how can one be UNDEFEATED at home and NOT be at least a "good qb"....come on dude give props where they are due

The props go to the defense, Hill is a decent enough game manager that doesn't put the defense on a short field all the time. He does deserve kudos for that. But, he is not a franchise QB, never will be. He is an adequate placeholder QB until the right one emerges.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,368
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by BobS:
2-0 is great. Remember the last time we started 2-0, 2007 and we finished 5-11. I am cautiously optimistic, I doubt Hill is going to win any games, but as long as he doesn't lose any he can hold down the fort until a better option comes along. He gives the team the best option to win now, and as long as the defense improves, with a sound running game, this team can win the division and make the play-offs, that will be a big step in the right direction.

how does a QB necessary win games?

how did our offense do against the Cards.....we couldn't run the ball....but when we finally passed it in the 4th qtr, we drove down field and took lots of time off the clock and Hill passed for the *gasp* winning TD... would you say that is help winning it for your team.

By Hill not winning any games I mean his play will not have a major influence on the won loss record of the team. Whether this team wins or losses is going to be heavily based on the success of the running game and the defense. He is the dreaded game manager who will just be expected to play within his limitations and not make costly mistakes. He won't lose us any games either. But, if the running game gets shut down, and the defense plays poorly he is not going to be Dan Marino and throw 60 times and win games with his arm.
Originally posted by GORE-ILLA:
imo it's still too early to tell if Hill is the long term guy that can win the big playoff games...he hasn't had much playing time...if u push Rayes playcalling aside i think Hill gets better with each game...thats just my opinion though

So far Hill is showing more accuracy than Smith has in the past but the production is the same-200yds here,200 yds there...
He could possibly get us to the playoffs but not the Superbowl without an excellent Defense.
Hill is ok for now but not the long term solution.

I haven't given up on A.Smith but I really liked Nate Davis in the preseason- 2010/2011 starter perhaps?
B4 Hill when was the last time we went 6-0 @ home with a starting Q/B? Hill may not have the greatest arm and may not make the best decisions all the time,but from jump the team followed his leadership and determination and sometimes that does win a football game(They call that winning ugly)IMO Hill is doing what he is suppose to just as the Defense is taking care of business.A little more help required on the O/line and by mid season we'll know if we got a shot at winning the division and maybe a wild card birth.As of now 'Sing is doing a stand up job.Lets keep this under the radar approach and I feel things will pay off come end of the season.Even if we don't make the playoffs.