Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Listening to Colin Cowheard interview with Mike Leech this morning, Leech made Crabtree sound like an aloof shut-in child who is so absorbed in his own world, that he doesn't pay attention to what kind of people around him or what decisions they make for him. That is some scary stuff. If that were true, I feel bad for the kid.

Well this could be the problem. He believes those teams who tell him they will draft him next year and pay him all that money. The truth is next year he will have no leverage for his contract demands. Everyone will know there is no way any of the rookies will hold out knowing there could be a work stoppage in 2011. Especially a guy who already sat out a year. He will sign with the niner.

Originally posted by jimbagg:
The stakes are about to get serious for Crabtree. To this point, holding out has cost him nothing (except skipping Singletary's brutal TC). But beginning Sunday, September 13, he loses 1/17th of his potential 2009 salary. That's a big number. He can't replace those dollars with a comparable job.

I expect him to sign within the next 72 hours. All this bull from Deion Sanders, etc is a last gasp negotiating strategy. Time favors the Niners and seriously hurts Crabtree. McCloughan, Crabtree and Eugene Parker all know this.

The Niners are handling this perfectly. No negative comments directed toward Crabtree. I foresee a 2-part response by the club. First, sign Crabtree. Second, and ONLY after Crabtree is signed, the club will be ruthless in going after some draft pick compensation for the obvious tampering. But that is being kept under wraps for now, in order to maintain a positive environment for Crabtree to sign.

If Crabtree's holdout continues into the regular season, through Week 3 or so, it becomes more likely that the Niners would find a "pre-existing physical issue", so that they could PUP him through Week 6, then drop a player to add him to the 53-man roster. Crabtree could then have time to learn the playbook and be a productive contributor to the 53-man roster.

Ah, a voice of reason. Nicely stated.

It should prove interesting to see how Crabby reacts to actually losing some money. It would be reasonable to see him come to the table within the next 72 hours, but he hasn't proven himself to be very reasonable so far.

Originally posted by rum53:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Does anyone honestly (be honest now) believe that he would be thrilled to sign a 10th overall slotted contract, and would do so? Especially after seeing a temporary injury push him down the board, and get passed by DHB.

This contract problem was obvious a long time ago, so I don't see why people are so upset to this date. This is not a normal 10th overall selection, it surely wasn't on draft day, and it won't magically become one just because we want it to.

The Niners are going to have to craft a creative contract to get this done, and if not, I think he simply walks away.

P.S. Once again, I don't understand the anger. I think if you put yourself in Crabtree's shoes as one of the dominant players entering the draft, seeing your stock drop due to a temporary injury, personally knowing that you should have been the first WR picked if not for that temporary injury, see that player who undeservedly jump you receive a massively overinflated salary, only to see him stink it up in camps and preseason games, hear of interest from other teams who are willing to throw down big money on you, and are interested in you as their first rounder next year, and think that you can prove the doubters wrong....why would you want to sign a fully-slotted 10th overall contract.

People are way too overemotional. He simply thinks he deserves better, and I believe he has a good case.

Furious response in 5,4,3,2,1...go!

Wait, one final note: If Crabtree was willing to sign for one dollar less than DHB before Monroe and Raji signed, the Niners were the ones who screwed up. The 8th and 9th slots were not closed until late in the negotiation game. The Niners could have not "broken the slot" if they gave Crabtree one less dollar than DHB. Of course, we will never know what each side offered, if Crabtree wanted more, if the Niners offered something more than now before Monroe and Raji signed, etc.

The situation boils down to bad luck. Crabtree was a top talent until he had unfortunate luck - a broken foot. Because of his bad luck, the market (i.e. the NFL draft) set his value at the number 10 pick.

The 49ers paid the price of a #10 draft pick for the rights of Crabtree. In doing so, the 49ers set value set his value since the NFL draft is essentially a free market. If a team valued Crabtree as a top 3 pick, they would have hit the jackpot by trading up and drafting him at picks 4 thru 9. Unfortunately for Crabtree, no team traded up for him.

The 49ers have every right to offer Crabtree #10 money because that is the price that they agreed to pay him by drafting him with the 10th pick. Just as important, they cannot give into Crabtree's unrealistic demands because they will set themselves up for future holdouts.

I understand that Crabtree's bad luck cost him millions of dollars. Unfortunately, the situation is what it is. He is the #10 draft pick whether he likes it or not. Crabtree really only has two options - signing for #10 money or holding out till next years draft.

Most NFL pundits agree that holding out for next year is a risky endeavor. He'll be walking away from a guaranteed $16-$20mil (depending on on the actual offer) in doing so. In sitting out the 2009 season, Crabtree is betting $16mil that he will be drafted higher than 10.

There is some truth to the saying "out of sight out of mind". The college season is in full swing and there are already several highly touted WR's putting up big numbers while Crabtree is sitting at home out of the sight and out of mind. Also, the holdout gives the impression that Crabtree is a potential character risk. All in all, there is absolutely no guarantee that he'll be drafted in the top 10 of the 2010 draft.

IMHO, Crabtree has already made a big mistake and is on the verge of making a fatal mistake. He has already wasted his rookie season. With each passing day he alienates both his teammates and coaches a little bit more. He will not be a top 5 pick or even a top 10 pick in the 2010 draft. His only "rational" option is to sign the offer and join the team ASAP.

This is a good opposing post. I will say that the NFL draft system is still loose, unlike the NBA. So, players can receive odd contracts that surpass their projected slotted number. It happen every year, usually with QB's, but not always.

So, the true market value for an NFL rookie is fluid, not fixed. Hence, the room for Crabtree to negotiate a number that does not fall into the normal pattern, in this case the 10th overall.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by rum53:
There is some truth to the saying "out of sight out of mind". The college season is in full swing and there are already several highly touted WR's putting up big numbers while Crabtree is sitting at home out of the sight and out of mind. Also, the holdout gives the impression that Crabtree is a potential character risk. All in all, there is absolutely no guarantee that he'll be drafted in the top 10 of the 2010 draft.

Very valid point, IMO. Crabs will not be a "sexy" pick in '10, compared to the top 2-5 WRs coming out with good health and recent tape. That has an impact.

Also, the combine is where the NFL puts players next to each other for comparison. Since the 49ers hold his draft rights, Crabtree cannot go the combine and compete with the various other WR prospects side by side.

It's going to be very hard for Crabtree to distinguish himself after sitting out an entire year. That TD catch to beat Texas is already a distant memory. Shoot, teams can't even interview him or work him out in person with fears of tampering.

Shoot, Crabtree will be lucky to be a top 20 pick in 2010.

I say reduce his contract by 1% for every day he holds out starting now. His value for us this season drops everyday he is not practicing, why not his contract?

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by jimbagg:
The stakes are about to get serious for Crabtree. To this point, holding out has cost him nothing (except skipping Singletary's brutal TC). But beginning Sunday, September 13, he loses 1/17th of his potential 2009 salary. That's a big number. He can't replace those dollars with a comparable job.

I expect him to sign within the next 72 hours. All this bull from Deion Sanders, etc is a last gasp negotiating strategy. Time favors the Niners and seriously hurts Crabtree. McCloughan, Crabtree and Eugene Parker all know this.

The Niners are handling this perfectly. No negative comments directed toward Crabtree. I foresee a 2-part response by the club. First, sign Crabtree. Second, and ONLY after Crabtree is signed, the club will be ruthless in going after some draft pick compensation for the obvious tampering. But that is being kept under wraps for now, in order to maintain a positive environment for Crabtree to sign.

If Crabtree's holdout continues into the regular season, through Week 3 or so, it becomes more likely that the Niners would find a "pre-existing physical issue", so that they could PUP him through Week 6, then drop a player to add him to the 53-man roster. Crabtree could then have time to learn the playbook and be a productive contributor to the 53-man roster.

Ah, a voice of reason. Nicely stated.

It should prove interesting to see how Crabby reacts to actually losing some money. It would be reasonable to see him come to the table within the next 72 hours, but he hasn't proven himself to be very reasonable so far.

And, at the same time, it will be interesting to see how the Niners react to a group of WR's without Michael Crabtree. It works both ways, guys.

Labor needs management, and management needs quality labor.

Originally posted by remdob1:
I say reduce his contract by 1% for every day he holds out starting now. His value for us this season drops everyday he is not practicing, why not his contract?

And this will solve anything? You know this is silly. It will only drive him away from the table. What is he going to do, limp up to the table and beg for forgiveness?

Originally posted by remdob1:
I say reduce his contract by 1% for every day he holds out starting now. His value for us this season drops everyday he is not practicing, why not his contract?

I agree with the idea, although they would probably discuss another amount. In fact, Jason La Confora from NFLN suggested that on the recent program where ClownMan Sanders spoke about Crabtree. Hit him where it hurts - his wallet - and he will either get his ass signed or it will sit out as he was going to do anyways.

We are closing in on 100 pages, and I'm not seeing the anger.

GET ANGRY PEOPLE!!!!!! RALLY!!!

CRABTREE IS THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by jimbagg:
The stakes are about to get serious for Crabtree. To this point, holding out has cost him nothing (except skipping Singletary's brutal TC). But beginning Sunday, September 13, he loses 1/17th of his potential 2009 salary. That's a big number. He can't replace those dollars with a comparable job.

I expect him to sign within the next 72 hours. All this bull from Deion Sanders, etc is a last gasp negotiating strategy. Time favors the Niners and seriously hurts Crabtree. McCloughan, Crabtree and Eugene Parker all know this.

The Niners are handling this perfectly. No negative comments directed toward Crabtree. I foresee a 2-part response by the club. First, sign Crabtree. Second, and ONLY after Crabtree is signed, the club will be ruthless in going after some draft pick compensation for the obvious tampering. But that is being kept under wraps for now, in order to maintain a positive environment for Crabtree to sign.

If Crabtree's holdout continues into the regular season, through Week 3 or so, it becomes more likely that the Niners would find a "pre-existing physical issue", so that they could PUP him through Week 6, then drop a player to add him to the 53-man roster. Crabtree could then have time to learn the playbook and be a productive contributor to the 53-man roster.

Ah, a voice of reason. Nicely stated.

It should prove interesting to see how Crabby reacts to actually losing some money. It would be reasonable to see him come to the table within the next 72 hours, but he hasn't proven himself to be very reasonable so far.

And, at the same time, it will be interesting to see how the Niners react to a group of WR's without Michael Crabtree. It works both ways, guys.

Labor needs management, and management needs quality labor.

We have yet to see our receivers actually get into game flow. Bruce sat out most of the preseason. Morgan will get on track with more time. Davis looked good the first couple of games, I believe they may have held him back the last couple. I think they knew he could give him what they needed so they weren't going to showcase him for the league anymore. Also Walker looked good when he got in the game. Beside we will be running for most our yards.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
We are closing in on 100 pages, and I'm not seeing the anger.

GET ANGRY PEOPLE!!!!!! RALLY!!!

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
We are closing in on 100 pages, and I'm not seeing the anger.

GET ANGRY PEOPLE!!!!!! RALLY!!!

You would like that. You want the fan base to be as stupid as you see the organization. It seems like you'd rather be right than the Niners be good.

He wants crabtree to be a niner like the rest of us. He just sees it more from crabtrees side

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by rum53:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Does anyone honestly (be honest now) believe that he would be thrilled to sign a 10th overall slotted contract, and would do so? Especially after seeing a temporary injury push him down the board, and get passed by DHB.

This contract problem was obvious a long time ago, so I don't see why people are so upset to this date. This is not a normal 10th overall selection, it surely wasn't on draft day, and it won't magically become one just because we want it to.

The Niners are going to have to craft a creative contract to get this done, and if not, I think he simply walks away.

P.S. Once again, I don't understand the anger. I think if you put yourself in Crabtree's shoes as one of the dominant players entering the draft, seeing your stock drop due to a temporary injury, personally knowing that you should have been the first WR picked if not for that temporary injury, see that player who undeservedly jump you receive a massively overinflated salary, only to see him stink it up in camps and preseason games, hear of interest from other teams who are willing to throw down big money on you, and are interested in you as their first rounder next year, and think that you can prove the doubters wrong....why would you want to sign a fully-slotted 10th overall contract.

People are way too overemotional. He simply thinks he deserves better, and I believe he has a good case.

Furious response in 5,4,3,2,1...go!

Wait, one final note: If Crabtree was willing to sign for one dollar less than DHB before Monroe and Raji signed, the Niners were the ones who screwed up. The 8th and 9th slots were not closed until late in the negotiation game. The Niners could have not "broken the slot" if they gave Crabtree one less dollar than DHB. Of course, we will never know what each side offered, if Crabtree wanted more, if the Niners offered something more than now before Monroe and Raji signed, etc.

The situation boils down to bad luck. Crabtree was a top talent until he had unfortunate luck - a broken foot. Because of his bad luck, the market (i.e. the NFL draft) set his value at the number 10 pick.

The 49ers paid the price of a #10 draft pick for the rights of Crabtree. In doing so, the 49ers set value set his value since the NFL draft is essentially a free market. If a team valued Crabtree as a top 3 pick, they would have hit the jackpot by trading up and drafting him at picks 4 thru 9. Unfortunately for Crabtree, no team traded up for him.

The 49ers have every right to offer Crabtree #10 money because that is the price that they agreed to pay him by drafting him with the 10th pick. Just as important, they cannot give into Crabtree's unrealistic demands because they will set themselves up for future holdouts.

I understand that Crabtree's bad luck cost him millions of dollars. Unfortunately, the situation is what it is. He is the #10 draft pick whether he likes it or not. Crabtree really only has two options - signing for #10 money or holding out till next years draft.

Most NFL pundits agree that holding out for next year is a risky endeavor. He'll be walking away from a guaranteed $16-$20mil (depending on on the actual offer) in doing so. In sitting out the 2009 season, Crabtree is betting $16mil that he will be drafted higher than 10.

There is some truth to the saying "out of sight out of mind". The college season is in full swing and there are already several highly touted WR's putting up big numbers while Crabtree is sitting at home out of the sight and out of mind. Also, the holdout gives the impression that Crabtree is a potential character risk. All in all, there is absolutely no guarantee that he'll be drafted in the top 10 of the 2010 draft.

IMHO, Crabtree has already made a big mistake and is on the verge of making a fatal mistake. He has already wasted his rookie season. With each passing day he alienates both his teammates and coaches a little bit more. He will not be a top 5 pick or even a top 10 pick in the 2010 draft. His only "rational" option is to sign the offer and join the team ASAP.

This is a good opposing post. I will say that the NFL draft system is still loose, unlike the NBA. So, players can receive odd contracts that surpass their projected slotted number. It happen every year, usually with QB's, but not always.

So, the true market value for an NFL rookie is fluid, not fixed. Hence, the room for Crabtree to negotiate a number that does not fall into the normal pattern, in this case the 10th overall.

I agree that there is room for Crabtree to negotiate above the 10th slot. However, asking for top 5 money or even a contract higher than the number 7 slot (DHB) is reaching too far. To date, QB's are the only position to significantly break the slotting system.

Let's say he negotiates an extra $1mil to the #10 slot. Fifty percent of that money goes to taxes. The sports agent takes a 5% cut. He will be left with roughly $450K.

The additional 450K comes at a high cost to Crabtree. By missing training camp, Crabtree essentially wasted his rookie season. That leaves him just four seasons left on his contract to learn the NFL game before his 2nd contract. The holdout hurts Crabtree's ability to earn even more money down the line.

Originally posted by Psinex:
Does anyone else think that MadDog is on Eugene Parker and Crabtree's payroll? I've not seen anyone else defend him on these message boards. Perhaps they're trying to cast Crabtree in a positive light and make the Niners front office look like the villains here. I've not seen anything other than pro-Crabtree/Parker propaganda spewing from MadDog this past month or two.

MadDog is Deon Sanders