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Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
September 4, 2009
No cash flow problem for Crabtree

If Michael Crabtree doesn't sign his contract by the time the first game checks are handed out late next week, he'll start losing money. But it's not as if the rookie wide receiver doesn't have a bit of change in his pocket already. After the college season, Crabtree was perhaps the most popular player heading into the draft - USC quarterback Mark Sanchez was his only competition in that regard - and he signed a number of endorsement deals at the time.

Among them were deals with EA Sports, Subway, Nike's Jordan Brand sneakers, three trading card companies and MogoTXT. Interestingly, that last deal requires Crabtree to update his followers with occasional messages. His latest, on Aug. 24:

MichaelCrabtree:Hey peps just hollaring at u i am still working hard getting stronger and faster oh yea i am ready to go so i can put on a show 4 ya
Sent 3:05:30 PM Mon Aug 24 '09

The post before that one may be more meaningful because it came on Aug. 7, a day after reports surfaced that Crabtree was threatening to sit out the entire season and re-enter the 2010 draft.

MichaelCrabtree:What up peps yeah this ur boy crab just want to say dont belive the hype i am ready to this thing in the bay i am putting the gym just on the low until its time to go!,do it 4 uSent 12:26:06 PM Fri Aug 7 '09

Crabtree also has money heading his way from jersey sales. According to Darren Rovell of CNBC.com, a look at NFL jersey sales from the first four months of the fiscal year shows that Crabtree's No. 15 jersey ranks 20th in the league. Among rookies, he is only behind Sanchez, a starter for the Jets. NFL players get about 6 percent every time their jersey is sold.

Rovell does note that the fact that Crabtree hasn't signed is hurting jersey sales. Crabtree was ranked No. 8 in sales in early August. It's also hard to see Crabtree signing any new deals considering he has yet to even practice with the 49ers. Still, one of his marketing managers, Peter Miller of Jabez Marketing Group, said that rookies typically don't have a lot of endorsement opportunities at the beginning of the season anyway. "That's when they're concentrating on football," Miller said. "I don't think we ever had a plan to do anything in August."

Here's the entire list from sales on NFLShop.com from the NFL's first four months of the fiscal year. Courtesy of CNBC.com.

1. Brett Favre, Vikings
2. Jay Cutler, Bears
3. Troy Polamalu, Steelers
4. Michael Vick, Eagles
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
6. Tony Romo, Cowboys
7. Mark Sanchez, Jets
8. Tom Brady, Patriots
9. Adrian Peterson, Vikings
10. Eli Manning, Giants
11. Terrell Owens, Bills
12. Peyton Manning, Colts
13. Hines Ward, Steelers
14. LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
15. Jason Witten, Cowboys
16. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals
17. Joe Flacco, Ravens
18. Matt Ryan, Falcons
19. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
20. Michael Crabtree, 49ers

-- Matt Barrows

I recall a poster named.....oh, yeah, it was me...talking about this a couple weeks ago. He has the means to not sign the contract.


I was saying that to but a lot of people here seemed to think he was not going to get the endorsement money if he sat out all yr but the fact is he has already got paid from these endorsers and signed contracts with them for years to come.

You were the one I was talking about. Madman...I mean maddog just repeated what you said and decided to use that to try and belittle other posters by trying to make himself seem high and mighty



Irrespective of who first brought the endorsement deals to the attention of the board, there's an issue here that deserves mention.

As one of the comments to MB's blog points out, each of those endorsement contracts undoubtedly contains a clause protective of the company and giving them an "out" if Crabby does anything to lessen the "value" of their deal--like, for example, holding out for an entire year and NOT becoming the pro football player that everyone anticipated when they signed their respective endorsement deals.

Some of those endorsement companies are undoubtedly already unhappy with the way things have gone to date, and may be considering their legal recourse, i.e., lawsuits for the return of their money.

So Crabby is living on borrowed money. Holding out a year will mean he has to repay that money. Holding out a year will mean that he's not gonna get any more endorsement deals for quite awhile. Holding out a year is gonna cost him far more than just the guaranteed money he foregoes this year.

Holding out a year would be a monumentally stupid move, from a business standpoint.



From what I have read and heard, he has already got up-front money from these company's and has guranteed contracts. I heard he got $10mill up front to sign with Nike and $2mill up front to sign with Subway.

It's crazy he got these deals without signing an NFL contract and im sure company's will make sure that the player signs a deal with his team before they give money and a guranteed deal.

There are guarantees, and then there are "guarantees."

I will guarantee you this, those companies paid some big lawfirm alot of money to draft a contract that will protect THEIR rights and give them a basis to sue for any actions on Crabby's part that adversely affect the value of the contract. The same big lawfirms that may, even now, be considering going after Crabby to return their money, based on his prolonged holdout.

Crabby will be crying for his momma shortly after getting into it with those kind of guys. They understand the meaning of "negotiations" when involved in a lawsuit, and will have no sympathy for a kid who's in over his head. Think of it as Haynesworth landing on Brady (no, too gentle); or more likely, Lawrence Taylor on Joe Theisman.

Crabby will find himself wishing for the day when he was just negotiating with the 49ers.

This gets more and more interesting.

[ Edited by oldninerdude on Sep 4, 2009 at 15:00:50 ]
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:


From what I have read and heard, he has already got up-front money from these company's and has guranteed contracts. I heard he got $10mill up front to sign with Nike and $2mill up front to sign with Subway.

It's crazy he got these deals without signing an NFL contract and im sure company's will make sure that the player signs a deal with his team before they give money and a guranteed deal.

There's absolutely no way that Nike and Crabtree's other sponsors didn't protect themselves by having some sort of escape clause. Like someone else just said, after the whole Vick debacle, do you still think they're going to throw cash at some rookie and not have some way of getting it back if it all goes to hell? If he sits out, they're effectively paying him based off his college performance. While he set all sorts of records in college, that's only a drop in the bucket when compared to his marketability as (what they assumed) an elite NFL player.

When they endorse him, they expect him to be a representative of the company. With all the bad press he's been getting, I don't think it's too much of a leap of faith to suggest his sponsors might be feeling a little uneasy.

[ Edited by showtime49 on Sep 4, 2009 at 15:03:53 ]
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.

Let's not hold our breath on this. The League can't even get them to move their scoreboard. Doubt they'd punish them for "tampering".

[ Edited by olapac on Sep 4, 2009 at 15:25:23 ]
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.
Originally posted by olapac:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.

Let's not hold our breaths on this. The League can't even get them to move their scoreboard. Doubt they'd punish them for "tampering".


That is because they save that for the 49ers. I swear I think Goodell is a damn Cowboys fan
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.

its not tampering if Dallas does it......

NFL allows it then
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.

its not tampering if Dallas does it......

NFL allows it then

Hell, they encourage it.
Originally posted by Xestenz:
Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
I just saw that Deon Sanders is going to be on NFL Total Access today discussing the Crabtree situation. Maybe he has a little insight here, or maybe he is just going to cover his Prime U ass.

Should prove interesting. Sanders will likely defend Crabby and his actions, and criticize the Niners for not offering what Crabby's "really" worth.

I hope he drops some hint about the Cowgirls and what they might do in the Niner's shoes--the perfect setup for a major case against Dallas for tampering with Crabby. Wouldn't that be sweet.

its not tampering if Dallas does it......

NFL allows it then

Hell, they encourage it.

If evidence is found that Dallas has had ANY contact with Crabby since the draft, directly or indirectly (like thru Dieon), and the NFL/Goodell didn't do anything about it, then the Niners should jump ugly on both Dallas and the NFL.

Say, in Federal Court, for example. Can you say "RICO?"

No way the NFL lets that happen. Talk about your bad publicity.

That's why Dallas is very likely staying as far away from Crabby as possible, despite the speculation on this board to the contrary.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,051
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BigMar:
Just a thought.... but could Crabtree's hardballing be due in part to his concern about who our Q.B.'s are?

Could he be worried about Hill & Smith?

I would not disregard anything at this point as far as what Crabtree thinking mode is.

I absolutely believe that is a part of it. Afterall, the question of San Francisco QB was a major topic going into the draft and continuing on untill the time the Crabtree conversation pushed it back to 3rd page news.

He will never say so but I am certain that, along with Singletary's announced plan to run the ball 60% of the time.

I think we would be ignoring the obvious if we did not admit that is a concern of his.

i know we've been talking about Crabtree for a long time, but have we really run out of things to say to the point where we're making these kind of assumptions? This is about $ and nothing else.
Now don't come along exposing my game.

Seriously, if I were Crabtree, coming from the kind of college career he has had, I would be considering exactly what I have posted. I just don't accept the fact it is all about money. I just don't.

As much as I love 49er football, the offense that is projected is not very exciting. It may win, but it isn't as exciting as throwing the ball around the field a la Bill Walsh.

Walsh ran the ball but when the game was on the line, he threw it. I remember a statement he made about a run-heavy offense. It was along the lines of "you can control the ball for 14 plays and use up nine minutes on the clock and then fumble inside the twenty yard line, or maybe wind up with a field, and then the other team roars down the field in three minutes and scores a touchdown..." Walsh threw the ball because he knew it was the future and he also knew it was one of the reasons it made the 49ers a very attractive option for young players and FAs.



I could definitely see this argument applying to free agent WRs, but even if, say, Crabtree believed he had been drafted into a bad situation for his own numbers, his position would still be untenable for the reasons his money demands are: you don't get to choose who drafts you, or where you get drafted. If he had been drafted in the top 5 he would have been on equally bad if not worse offenses than the Niners.
I agree with all you are saying. It is a difficult case to make. The thing is, we just don't know what he is thinking, and that makes cases like the Eli Manning/San Diego situation one that COULD come into play in his thinking.

So, for instance, if he thinks he could sit out the season and force a trade to New Orleans or Indy or one of the other 6 or 7 teams that have top-tier QBs. He knows he is going to get serious cash when he does sign but he will be playing someplace that throws the ball around.





Anyway, you got a better idea on how to get THIS thread back up over 100 before he signs?


the difference I see is that with the Eli thing he was pretty vocal about straight-up not wanting to play for SD, whereas everything we know about Crabtree is that money is where he and the Niners don't agree. So while historically such things as the Eli debacle have occurred, I still don't see how its the case here.

As to your last point: I don't think we have to worry about this thread hitting 100.
So I take it you don't think he'll sign before next Friday.

As to the original point, I will admit a part of this is my own apprehension about what is going to happen when teams realize they can jam the WRs at the line, drop a linebacker into the short zone and shut down the offense completely.

I'm already in WYSIWYG for 9-7 but I am now going to be very happy with 8 wins. The more likely number is 7-9, largely because this offense can't pass, and I do not believe Crabtree signing is going to have any noticeable effect. I hope I am wrong.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by Xestenz:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:


I recall a poster named.....oh, yeah, it was me...talking about this a couple weeks ago. He has the means to not sign the contract.

Although, many of those endorsements contracts might be predicated on him actually playing in the NFL. What is the value of a malcontent, greedy, non-performer (which Crabtree would be if he sits out) from an endorsement perspective?

I could see that money drying up quickly too...
The question is; do those endorsements deals bring in enough to keep the posse fed?
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by HessianDud:



the difference I see is that with the Eli thing he was pretty vocal about straight-up not wanting to play for SD, whereas everything we know about Crabtree is that money is where he and the Niners don't agree. So while historically such things as the Eli debacle have occurred, I still don't see how its the case here.

As to your last point: I don't think we have to worry about this thread hitting 100.
So I take it you don't think he'll sign before next Friday.

As to the original point, I will admit a part of this is my own apprehension about what is going to happen when teams realize they can jam the WRs at the line, drop a linebacker into the short zone and shut down the offense completely.

I'm already in WYSIWYG for 9-7 but I am now going to be very happy with 8 wins. The more likely number is 7-9, largely because this offense can't pass, and I do not believe Crabtree signing is going to have any noticeable effect. I hope I am wrong.

I really thought he'd sign by next friday, I still partly think he will, but I really have my doubts. Even so, you never know. 85 pages in a week is like chump change for the 'zone.

as far as the record goes, sadly, we are in complete agreement. I think our absolute ceiling is 10 games, and that is going to require a lot of lucky bounces. But I think our floor isn't abysmal. 6 or 7, I think, because we do several important things well: run the ball, defend the run, and play special teams. I have a feeling we won't get blown out this year (or at least not badly, or as often, as we did the last few years), but we won't put teams away, either, which is really why 8-8 is the most likely record.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,051
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
September 4, 2009
No cash flow problem for Crabtree

If Michael Crabtree doesn't sign his contract by the time the first game checks are handed out late next week, he'll start losing money. But it's not as if the rookie wide receiver doesn't have a bit of change in his pocket already. After the college season, Crabtree was perhaps the most popular player heading into the draft - USC quarterback Mark Sanchez was his only competition in that regard - and he signed a number of endorsement deals at the time.

Among them were deals with EA Sports, Subway, Nike's Jordan Brand sneakers, three trading card companies and MogoTXT. Interestingly, that last deal requires Crabtree to update his followers with occasional messages. His latest, on Aug. 24:

MichaelCrabtree:Hey peps just hollaring at u i am still working hard getting stronger and faster oh yea i am ready to go so i can put on a show 4 ya
Sent 3:05:30 PM Mon Aug 24 '09

The post before that one may be more meaningful because it came on Aug. 7, a day after reports surfaced that Crabtree was threatening to sit out the entire season and re-enter the 2010 draft.

MichaelCrabtree:What up peps yeah this ur boy crab just want to say dont belive the hype i am ready to this thing in the bay i am putting the gym just on the low until its time to go!,do it 4 uSent 12:26:06 PM Fri Aug 7 '09

Crabtree also has money heading his way from jersey sales. According to Darren Rovell of CNBC.com, a look at NFL jersey sales from the first four months of the fiscal year shows that Crabtree's No. 15 jersey ranks 20th in the league. Among rookies, he is only behind Sanchez, a starter for the Jets. NFL players get about 6 percent every time their jersey is sold.

Rovell does note that the fact that Crabtree hasn't signed is hurting jersey sales. Crabtree was ranked No. 8 in sales in early August. It's also hard to see Crabtree signing any new deals considering he has yet to even practice with the 49ers. Still, one of his marketing managers, Peter Miller of Jabez Marketing Group, said that rookies typically don't have a lot of endorsement opportunities at the beginning of the season anyway. "That's when they're concentrating on football," Miller said. "I don't think we ever had a plan to do anything in August."

Here's the entire list from sales on NFLShop.com from the NFL's first four months of the fiscal year. Courtesy of CNBC.com.

1. Brett Favre, Vikings
2. Jay Cutler, Bears
3. Troy Polamalu, Steelers
4. Michael Vick, Eagles
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
6. Tony Romo, Cowboys
7. Mark Sanchez, Jets
8. Tom Brady, Patriots
9. Adrian Peterson, Vikings
10. Eli Manning, Giants
11. Terrell Owens, Bills
12. Peyton Manning, Colts
13. Hines Ward, Steelers
14. LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
15. Jason Witten, Cowboys
16. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals
17. Joe Flacco, Ravens
18. Matt Ryan, Falcons
19. Aaron Rodgers, Packers
20. Michael Crabtree, 49ers

-- Matt Barrows

I recall a poster named.....oh, yeah, it was me...talking about this a couple weeks ago. He has the means to not sign the contract.


I was saying that to but a lot of people here seemed to think he was not going to get the endorsement money if he sat out all yr but the fact is he has already got paid from these endorsers and signed contracts with them for years to come.

You were the one I was talking about. Madman...I mean maddog just repeated what you said and decided to use that to try and belittle other posters by trying to make himself seem high and mighty



Irrespective of who first brought the endorsement deals to the attention of the board, there's an issue here that deserves mention.

As one of the comments to MB's blog points out, each of those endorsement contracts undoubtedly contains a clause protective of the company and giving them an "out" if Crabby does anything to lessen the "value" of their deal--like, for example, holding out for an entire year and NOT becoming the pro football player that everyone anticipated when they signed their respective endorsement deals.

Some of those endorsement companies are undoubtedly already unhappy with the way things have gone to date, and may be considering their legal recourse, i.e., lawsuits for the return of their money.

So Crabby is living on borrowed money. Holding out a year will mean he has to repay that money. Holding out a year will mean that he's not gonna get any more endorsement deals for quite awhile. Holding out a year is gonna cost him far more than just the guaranteed money he foregoes this year.

Holding out a year would be a monumentally stupid move, from a business standpoint.



From what I have read and heard, he has already got up-front money from these company's and has guranteed contracts. I heard he got $10mill up front to sign with Nike and $2mill up front to sign with Subway.

It's crazy he got these deals without signing an NFL contract and im sure company's will make sure that the player signs a deal with his team before they give money and a guranteed deal.
Those reports are wrong. I don't know for sure about Subway but I do know quite a bit about the kind of deals Nike does, and they do NOT put a lot of money up front until the player begins to perform. Even then, there is no way Michael Crabtree will get $10MILLION from Nike in the next five years combined unless he does turn into Jerry Rice. Not even Tiger Woods is getting that kind of money without performance. Woods makes a bundle but it is all predicated on performance. He gets a pre-set retainer, if you will, and then Nike starts matching his winnings. Of course now he has built up a great name and following but if he didn't win for a year, he would have to buy day-old bread for his famous peanut butter and jelly sandwiches he eats on course but...
  • dj43
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Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by HessianDud:



the difference I see is that with the Eli thing he was pretty vocal about straight-up not wanting to play for SD, whereas everything we know about Crabtree is that money is where he and the Niners don't agree. So while historically such things as the Eli debacle have occurred, I still don't see how its the case here.

As to your last point: I don't think we have to worry about this thread hitting 100.
So I take it you don't think he'll sign before next Friday.

As to the original point, I will admit a part of this is my own apprehension about what is going to happen when teams realize they can jam the WRs at the line, drop a linebacker into the short zone and shut down the offense completely.

I'm already in WYSIWYG for 9-7 but I am now going to be very happy with 8 wins. The more likely number is 7-9, largely because this offense can't pass, and I do not believe Crabtree signing is going to have any noticeable effect. I hope I am wrong.

I really thought he'd sign by next friday, I still partly think he will, but I really have my doubts. Even so, you never know. 85 pages in a week is like chump change for the 'zone.

as far as the record goes, sadly, we are in complete agreement. I think our absolute ceiling is 10 games, and that is going to require a lot of lucky bounces. But I think our floor isn't abysmal. 6 or 7, I think, because we do several important things well: run the ball, defend the run, and play special teams. I have a feeling we won't get blown out this year (or at least not badly, or as often, as we did the last few years), but we won't put teams away, either, which is really why 8-8 is the most likely record.
Yep, if you can't rush the other team's passer, and you can't pass yourself, your run defense better be VERY stout if you are going to win very many 16-13 games, which is what I am predicting as the most common final score in '9erville this season.