There are 93 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Aaahh, I see what Sing is doing....

Without passrush, coverage sucks.
Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
Without passrush, coverage sucks.

without coverage, passrush sucks
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49er4life:
I think a lot of people forget that during the preseason it is very common not to show your blitz packages!

If you show them during the preseason you give your regular season opponents the upper hand early. This is one of the reason Nolan is an idiot, throwing all of his blitz packages at us in the first game is only going to hurt them in the regular season.

While I agree that pre-season is a time to work on certain aspects of coverages, packages, etc. let's be clear that Singletary was NOT happy with our non-existent pass rush. No matter how vanilla the scheme is, our men should still be beating their men with one-on-one battles. Period.

We are NOT a dominant 3-4 or 4-6 defense that has played together for years and will be adding some new wrinkles and we don't want to show-our-hand, so to speak. I just don't buy this theory at all. We are a 7-9 team that desperately needs to improve a pass rush that has not existed for over 6 years now and we need to be working on it every chance we get.

And case-in-point, it doesn't MATTER if the rest of the league does see your hand if you are a good defense b/c there won't be anything they can do about it. It's no different then when a defense KNOWS you're a dominant power running team and still, there is nothing they can do to stop it. Our first pre-season game, we clearly tried to establish a dominant running game with Coffee...should we not have done that for fear of showing our hand in the regular season? I don't think so!

Exactly. Pres season is where you try different things Of course the team isn't gonna unleash it's full arsenal of blitz packages in pre season, but they do want to blitz so they themselves can know what is and isn't' successful. If they never show anything how will the coaches ever be able to evaluate on tape hwo is getting it done. And to know what player isn't doing what they are supposed to. No way they hold back every blitz package then try them during the regular season. You have to try certain things in preseason so you can get a feel if it were to work during regular season. can't just practice it and expect it to work in game 1. If you wait til the season starts you will have less time to fix and implement new tactics.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49er4life:
I think a lot of people forget that during the preseason it is very common not to show your blitz packages!

If you show them during the preseason you give your regular season opponents the upper hand early. This is one of the reason Nolan is an idiot, throwing all of his blitz packages at us in the first game is only going to hurt them in the regular season.

While I agree that pre-season is a time to work on certain aspects of coverages, packages, etc. let's be clear that Singletary was NOT happy with our non-existent pass rush. No matter how vanilla the scheme is, our men should still be beating their men with one-on-one battles. Period.

We are NOT a dominant 3-4 or 4-6 defense that has played together for years and will be adding some new wrinkles and we don't want to show-our-hand, so to speak. I just don't buy this theory at all. We are a 7-9 team that desperately needs to improve a pass rush that has not existed for over 6 years now and we need to be working on it every chance we get.

And case-in-point, it doesn't MATTER if the rest of the league does see your hand if you are a good defense b/c there won't be anything they can do about it. It's no different then when a defense KNOWS you're a dominant power running team and still, there is nothing they can do to stop it. Our first pre-season game, we clearly tried to establish a dominant running game with Coffee...should we not have done that for fear of showing our hand in the regular season? I don't think so!

A 3-4 generates pass rush by having the offense NOT know where the rush/blitz is coming from. If we show our blitz packages in preseason it defeats the purpose.

Also like another poster said allot of blitz packages are created by scheming for a specific team, most teams dont start planning for opponents until the 3rd preseason game and even then its more to just start getting into the habit for the regular season. Lets not let the sky fall till regular season.
Originally posted by Sinsation:
we signed Eric Green because he is a quality Cb. this guy was a starter a yr ago, and yes even tho he wasnt doing great in Miami, he WAS competing for the 2nd Cb spot. He is,at the very least, a nickel corner and will be an asset to have on the field. Who knows if spencer can play injury free and i'm not sold on brown or hudson. Quality depth is important too.

IMO he became expendable when they signed Vontae Davis, and with the performance of Sean Smith (I think that's his name). Smith may be the best
corner to come out of this draft.
Originally posted by jta854:
^^^^^^^^^
alanbeez22, My bad. I'm not sure why I quoted you. My comment was directed at the original post.

all good in the hood! lets just keep our fingers cross that our secondary makes jamarcus russel look like a pop-warner player and lets hope our blitz packages knocks his PRIVATES in the dirt! same goes for garcia and gradskwoski
  • Kush_Man16
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by alanbeez22:
Originally posted by jta854:
Originally posted by alanbeez22:
Originally posted by ObePwnD:
....It's pretty obvious to me, and I'm sure to many of you here that Sing is trying to improve our pass rush through coverage sacks. It's just my opinion based on the extra depth in the secondary. After he signed Green, I was racking my brain, trying to figure out why? If there are no pass rushers available in the FA, why not try a different approach? Not saying that Sing is not trying to improve the so called pass rushers we have, but this may work for the time being until we're able to capitalize on next year's very strong draft.

I think he's putting his finger in the dike until next draft.

What do you guys think? Can it work? Will it help?


this is a good and valid point of view. i agree that picking up another cb would probably help with coverage sacks. but what would help with getting more sacks and interceptions is getting a person in that can actually get SACKS! if we got a pass rusher i believe that interceptions would definately be up not only by our secondary but also our linebackers. pressure from the front puts more strain on the qb's ability to make a correct throw. having more coverage just puts more pressure on a qb to throw a pass that he usually doesn't make! i dunno about you but i would have rather have help from the D-Line

I don’t buy it.

Unless you have 3 or 4 Deion Sanders in your secondary, WRs WILL get open. Sure with a great secondary you may get a few coverage sacks, but it will not turn your team into a bunch of sack masters.

In 1994 the 49ers had one of the best secondary in the history of the NFL (Merton Hanks, Tim McDonald, Eric Davis, Deion Sanders) and a crappy pass rush. How many sacks did that secondary “produce,” 38. I know it’s just one year but, if I looked at more teams, I believe it would the stats would support my conclusion.

i don't think you read my whole paragraph...

co-signed
Originally posted by 49er4life:
In MM's blogs, he has stated that we have been blitzing heavily in practice, and yet we did not in the first preseason game. Wouldn't this lead you to believe that we might not be showing everything we got? Also blitz packages are generaly installed as apart of pre game planning for a specific oppenent and film study, two things that don't happen against most teams in preseason. You state that "We are NOT a dominant 3-4 or 4-6 defense", which is more reason why we do not need to throw everything at our opponents or give up our hand this early in the preseason.

I get where you are coming from, my friend. However, I disagree more with our team approach then I do with your philosophy. We are returning almost every starter from last year and pre-season is the time to try new schemes, blitz packages, etc. We saw the odd shuffling of d-linemen (e.g. Evans at NT) and various other formations that, if successful, we may include in the regular season. My contention is that we shouldn't be too concerned what the offense is doing during pre-season and we should be trying some of these blitz packages b/c truth be told, we haven't seen much from Manusky even DURING the season. Now he has a defense that is returning almost all it's starters so this is the time to open it up a little and get these guys prepared for real games. And technically, this is all a moot point b/c a 3-4 defense is designed to 1) Attack (e.g. blitz) and 2) Disguise where it's coming from. The problem with the first pre-season game is that the defense looked like it did last year (aside from the timley INT's). Singletary brought in a pass rush coach, promoted Manny/Haralson to FT OLB's, Manusky was given the green-light, etc.


Originally posted by 49er4life:
As for you comparison of a power running game to blitzing, it makes no sense. When it comes to our offense, teams know we are going to run the ball, and that it will most likely be between the tackles considering the type of runners we have. These are thing we can not hide, therefor need to show to be affective so that teams will fear the run and open up the passing game. Offense and defense require two completely different strategies, if you do not understand this any argument is a complete wast of time...

It makes perfect sense. When a defense employs a 3-4, the opposition should EXPECT that 1) Pressure is coming & 2) We just don't know where it will come from. So why play vanilla on defense and aggressive on offense. The offense isn't going to stop being a power running team and just focus on the pass all game. So why should the defense stop being a 3-4 and just play a soft prevent defense? That makes no sense at all.

Most teams know where the Chargers, Patriots & Steelers are going to blitz and how much. It doesn't mean an opposition can stop them. These teams are just as aggressive on defense as offense no matter what game it is. You just don't curb your identity b/c it's pre-season...you build on it and add new wrinkles.

The caveat in all of this is that no matter how vanilla Manusky called it, we did NOT beat anyone one-on-one and that was something Singletary was peeved about (much to Manusky's chagrin). Clearly, Mike was hoping to see something or expected something that did not take place. I'm sure Singletary game-plans with Manusky so when it doesn't show up on the field, even in pre-season, it's a problem.

A side note here is that given Mike Nolan's relationship with Singletary, I would not be too surprised to find out that Singletary asked Nolan to dial up a myriad of blitzes to help prepare the o-line. That said, perhaps we dialed it down some on offense while their offense worked on quick short/intermediate passes.

Either way, I am expecting a few wrinkles during the next pre-season game.
i disagree. we signed Bly because Harris went down for the year. We let Strickland walk. We didn't draft a Corner OR Pass Rusher. AND, we move Reggie Smith from Corner to Safety.

Bly replaced Harris
Green replaced Strickland
And we still have an empty spot from Smith.

It's not rock science. This shouldnt be a suprise to anyone why we signed him. We needed more cornders, plain and simple.
Originally posted by 5280High:
A 3-4 generates pass rush by having the offense NOT know where the rush/blitz is coming from. If we show our blitz packages in preseason it defeats the purpose.

Also like another poster said allot of blitz packages are created by scheming for a specific team, most teams dont start planning for opponents until the 3rd preseason game and even then its more to just start getting into the habit for the regular season. Lets not let the sky fall till regular season.

This is true in that the 3-4 is designed to disguise the blitz but for us, for the past 6 years, we have nothing to disguise b/c we CAN'T pass rush. We have employed THE most vanilla 3-4 I have ever seen...and by vanilla, I mean predictable, soft and reactive. Ever team knows that the only man you need to double down on is Smith on the d-line. Every team knows the only two rushers you need to account for (and minimally at that) is Haralson and Lawson. Inside LB's? They are rarely rushed. CB's? This past pre-season game was the most CB/safety blitzing I have seen in quite some time.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy the theory that we need to hide our blitz packages to avoid the opposition during the regular season for fear they will adapt to it easily.

And I agree that when you plan for a particular opponent, you scheme to their weaknesses. That doesn't excuse the fact that you can STILL run and practice schemes in games nonetheless and wor on new and unfamiliar packages. It also doesn't excuse you from employing few if any blitzes at all. I think fans on this board are worried b/c pre-season or not, our "scheme" and lack of success looked exactly how it did during a regular season game. I think fans would like to see us at least trying something away from the norm.

BTW: The sky fell over six years ago...we're just waiting for the sun to come back out
I think you might be over analyzing it a little too much
M-A-N-N-Y L-A-W-S-O-N

Pass Rusher or non-Pass Rusher

Stay tuned.

1st pre-season game = 0 sacks
Originally posted by BigMar:
49ers Defense!!

Pass Rusher or non-Pass Rusher

Stay tuned.

1st pre-season game = 0 sacks

fixed
Originally posted by Daniel2778:
I think you might be over analyzing it a little too much

i don't we are... so far we had 1 pre-season game and have 0 sacks. i think that says something. in a game we should have atleast 1 sack.
  • BigRon
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,778
Originally posted by BurritoSmuggler:
i disagree. we signed Bly because Harris went down for the year. We let Strickland walk. We didn't draft a Corner OR Pass Rusher. AND, we move Reggie Smith from Corner to Safety.

Bly replaced Harris
Green replaced Strickland
And we still have an empty spot from Smith.

It's not rock science. This shouldnt be a suprise to anyone why we signed him. We needed more cornders, plain and simple.

geology?????