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Are the 49ers Running the Correct Defensive Scheme to Fit This Team?

Are the 49ers Running the Correct Defensive Scheme to Fit This Team?

Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by zozell:
Jed: "Does anybody have any questions for Coach Singletary?"

Willis: "Yea I got a question... What do you think about the 4-3 scheme?"

Singletary: "4-3??? What do YOU think?"

Willis: "I think it's a peice of s**t"

Jed: "Willis!"

Willis: "What I mean to say is we've all been having problems with the 4-3 right?"
defense agrees
"I just want to see what our Head Coach here plans to do about it"

Singletary: "Well alright..uhh Well Willis is it?? Willis?! What do YOU think we should do about it WILLIS!?"

Willis: "I think we should scrap it"

Singletary: "How many people think we should scrap the 4-3?"
all the defense raises their hands
"There it is. Scrapped! You know why? Cuz you want it scrapped. 4-3 It's outta there. No More. GONE! You want 31 flavors??? Baskin Robbins is where ya wanna be. Be cool!"

Spikes: "Coach!" raises hand

Singletary: "What is it!" points at Spikes

Spikes: "I'd like to work with the 3-4"

Willis: "Yea the 3-4 is good"

Singletary: "3-4 it is!"
defense applause

Manusky: "What the heck is he doing? We only have personnel for the 4-3?"

Jed: "He's shaking things up. Maybe that's exactly what we need!"
Not really gettin this...
  • TX9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,143
Hard to say. We don't have the NT or pass rushing OLBs to be any good at the 3-4. Our LBs are much better suited, esp Lawson, to play the 4-3, but we don't have the pass rushing DEs for that either. I think Willis would be better served in a 4-3 and have everything funneled to him. It really doesn't matter what scheme we run until we can get a consistent pass rush from at least one player, you know the kind people have to game plan for. We haven't had that since... Doleman maybe?
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Too soon to know.

Denver is not a good barometer as they usually pass block well. Also, Manusky isn't going to show too much in PS. The three picks don't mean much as Orton threw terrible passes into places they should not have been thrown.

It takes a great athlete to be a good pass rusher, and I don't see that guy on the team right now. Franklin would likely be a better DT in a 4-3 than a NT in a 3-4. However, he played in rather well at the end of last year. He penetrates well and has good quickness. Smith is a mauler with a motor who will get some sacks on effort alone. Haralson is the best pass rusher but isn't going to scare anyone.

However, we are really going to have to wait until the regular season to see if it is sub-standard or just average. Right now there is still far too much work and scheme adjustments going on to make a definitive statement.
Smith and Haralson playing DE in the 43 with Manny, Willis, & Spikes playing LB makes more sense than asking Franklin to play 34 NT again. But we're missing a true pass rushing threat either way, so I don't think changing schemes will really do anything other than confuse the players again.

I say we follow the Snyder strategy here - allow our guys to play one position in one defense for a little bit and see where that gets us. Chances are, we'll still need a legit pass rusher and NT next year, but we have two first round picks and several big names should be hitting FA.
I`ll leave it up to the coaches to and not the fans...
It' just the fact that this is a copy cat league. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Chargers all starting using the 3-4, have been top notch defenses with a lot of sacks and now we all try to use the 3-4. You have to have the personal. We need a NT like a lot of you have said but more importantly you need the LB's!!!

Nolan came over from Baltimore and bam we are now a 3-4 team. Had the hybrid system, scrapped it now we are more of 3-4. Give it one more year as a true 3-4 and then we can answer your question.
Originally posted by dj43:
Too soon to know.

Denver is not a good barometer as they usually pass block well. Also, Manusky isn't going to show too much in PS. The three picks don't mean much as Orton threw terrible passes into places they should not have been thrown.

It takes a great athlete to be a good pass rusher, and I don't see that guy on the team right now. Franklin would likely be a better DT in a 4-3 than a NT in a 3-4. However, he played in rather well at the end of last year. He penetrates well and has good quickness. Smith is a mauler with a motor who will get some sacks on effort alone. Haralson is the best pass rusher but isn't going to scare anyone.

However, we are really going to have to wait until the regular season to see if it is sub-standard or just average. Right now there is still far too much work and scheme adjustments going on to make a definitive statement.

The bold is an understatement.
  • rum53
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 762
Is a dominate NT necessary for a successful 3-4? I'm of the opinion that it isn't. We play a 1-gap style of the 3-4 where the DL's goal is penetration as opposed to maintaining the LOS (2-gap). Both styles can be effective.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think we would get any more pressure on the QB running the 4-3 then we don't get running the 3-4...

I agree with this as well.

-9fA
Originally posted by zozell:
Jed: "Does anybody have any questions for Coach Singletary?"

Willis: "Yea I got a question... What do you think about the 4-3 scheme?"

Singletary: "4-3??? What do YOU think?"

Willis: "I think it's a peice of s**t"

Jed: "Willis!"

Willis: "What I mean to say is we've all been having problems with the 4-3 right?"
defense agrees
"I just want to see what our Head Coach here plans to do about it"

Singletary: "Well alright..uhh Well Willis is it?? Willis?! What do YOU think we should do about it WILLIS!?"

Willis: "I think we should scrap it"

Singletary: "How many people think we should scrap the 4-3?"
all the defense raises their hands
"There it is. Scrapped! You know why? Cuz you want it scrapped. 4-3 It's outta there. No More. GONE! You want 31 flavors??? Baskin Robbins is where ya wanna be. Be cool!"

Spikes: "Coach!" raises hand

Singletary: "What is it!" points at Spikes

Spikes: "I'd like to work with the 3-4"

Willis: "Yea the 3-4 is good"

Singletary: "3-4 it is!"
defense applause

Manusky: "What the heck is he doing? We only have personnel for the 4-3?"

Jed: "He's shaking things up. Maybe that's exactly what we need!"




Awesome

Well done
Originally posted by rum53:
Is a dominate NT necessary for a successful 3-4? I'm of the opinion that it isn't. We play a 1-gap style of the 3-4 where the DL's goal is penetration as opposed to maintaining the LOS (2-gap). Both styles can be effective.

The only other 34 team that has tried one gapping its NT is Dallas (Jamal Williams is a dominant two gap NT for San Diego) and they've only done that since making Jay Ratliff the starter. Jason Ferguson always two gapped when he was the starter there.

More importantly, Dallas is able to get away with one gapping their NT in large part because their OLB's are excellent pass rushers and very stout against the run - that eases pressure on the interior DL by drawing blockers to the outside. I'm sure a team like Pittsburgh or San Diego could one gap their NT if they had to, but they don't need to with the players they've got.

I don't think we have the talent at the OLB position to effectively one gap our NT as a permanent part of the system. I think we're trying to one gap Franklin because he's not effective two gapping and because Dallas has had some success one gapping Ratliff. But I don't think Manusky would be one gapping Franklin if he had any other choice.
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
4-3 needs quick DEs. We do not have such players.
we are more suited for the 3-4

didnt manny play 4-3 DE in school? and harelson?

In School yes. Yet he Struggles in passrushing in the NFL.Manny's a much better covergae guy. Therefore if he struggles as an OLB he would struggle even more as a 4-3 DE.

Look at Tuck, Umeniyoura or Strahan. Now that's a protypical 4-3 DE.
Originally posted by Esco:
Originally posted by Ninersdeep:
Originally posted by zozell:
Jed: "Does anybody have any questions for Coach Singletary?"

Willis: "Yea I got a question... What do you think about the 4-3 scheme?"

Singletary: "4-3??? What do YOU think?"

Willis: "I think it's a peice of s**t"

Jed: "Willis!"

Willis: "What I mean to say is we've all been having problems with the 4-3 right?"
defense agrees
"I just want to see what our Head Coach here plans to do about it"


Singletary: "Well alright..uhh Well Willis is it?? Willis?! What do YOU think we should do about it WILLIS!?"

Willis: "I think we should scrap it"

Singletary: "How many people think we should scrap the 4-3?"
all the defense raises their hands
"There it is. Scrapped! You know why? Cuz you want it scrapped. 4-3 It's outta there. No More. GONE! You want 31 flavors??? Baskin Robbins is where ya wanna be. Be cool!"

Spikes: "Coach!" raises hand

Singletary: "What is it!" points at Spikes

Spikes: "I'd like to work with the 3-4"

Willis: "Yea the 3-4 is good"

Singletary: "3-4 it is!"
defense applause

Manusky: "What the heck is he doing? We only have personnel for the 4-3?"

Jed: "He's shaking things up. Maybe that's exactly what we need!"
wut

Srsly

it makes sense if your high