A. Franklin... how do you rate him?

I think he moved from a 2 to a 3 late last season.

I reserve judgment until I see him sans Nolan,I think a lot of our players will step it up a notch in the intensity level now that Coach Asshat is gone.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I reserve judgment until I see him sans Nolan,I think a lot of our players will step it up a notch in the intensity level now that Coach Asshat is gone.

Might not be seeing as much of Franklin anymore, as everything about Sopoaga at NT is coming back glowingly positive.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I reserve judgment until I see him sans Nolan,I think a lot of our players will step it up a notch in the intensity level now that Coach Asshat is gone.

Might not be seeing as much of Franklin anymore, as everything about Sopoaga at NT is coming back glowingly positive.

Thats nice.... except for the fact that Franklin still is the STARTING nose tackle.

Originally posted by buck:
I will put my head on the chopping block.

I give Aubrayo Franklin a solid three, and expect him to move up this year.

Takeo Spikes, Jeff Ulbrich, and Patrick Willis (and they all play behind Franklin) have spoken well of him over the last year.

There, my head is on the block. Have fun with it!!

YOU DIE!!

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I reserve judgment until I see him sans Nolan,I think a lot of our players will step it up a notch in the intensity level now that Coach Asshat is gone.

Might not be seeing as much of Franklin anymore, as everything about Sopoaga at NT is coming back glowingly positive.

Thats nice.... except for the fact that Franklin still is the STARTING nose tackle.

That is what Manusky said, but that was way back in early June. If Sopoaga continues to shine and Franklin is the invisible man... how can they keep Ice... on ice?

I just hope whoever holds the nose, they blow up the middle and create pressure in the pocket.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I give him a 1 as he is unworthy of double teams... gets pancaked when he is doubled... and offers next to nothing to assist in our pass rush. In the second half of the season, he moved up to a 1.5 or 2. Franklin is still a below average starter, and I see very little possibility for much improvement.

I agree...the skill-set of Franklin & Sopoaga together in the interior in a 4-3 would be solid. Individually, at the NT position, neither have the build, skill-set or mindset to play and excel at that position. Square peg - round hole.

If Franklin is playing one gap then 3-4. If he is asked anything else he falls off the table.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I give him a 1 as he is unworthy of double teams... gets pancaked when he is doubled... and offers next to nothing to assist in our pass rush. In the second half of the season, he moved up to a 1.5 or 2. Franklin is still a below average starter, and I see very little possibility for much improvement.

I agree...the skill-set of Franklin & Sopoaga together in the interior in a 4-3 would be solid. Individually, at the NT position, neither have the build, skill-set or mindset to play and excel at that position. Square peg - round hole.

i don't agree at all. franklin's play was one of the main reasons (besides playing against pretty bad teams) that the defense finished as strong as it did last season. he's not a pro bowl calibre player, far from it, but he's a solid starter. (and at least he doesn't poke other people in the eye.^^)

Originally posted by zugschef:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I give him a 1 as he is unworthy of double teams... gets pancaked when he is doubled... and offers next to nothing to assist in our pass rush. In the second half of the season, he moved up to a 1.5 or 2. Franklin is still a below average starter, and I see very little possibility for much improvement.

I agree...the skill-set of Franklin & Sopoaga together in the interior in a 4-3 would be solid. Individually, at the NT position, neither have the build, skill-set or mindset to play and excel at that position. Square peg - round hole.

i don't agree at all. franklin's play was one of the main reasons (besides playing against pretty bad teams) that the defense finished as strong as it did last season. he's not a pro bowl calibre player, far from it, but he's a solid starter. (and at least he doesn't poke other people in the eye.^^)

That was a good one! "Solid" I agree with but in order to run a true 3-4 a team needs a dominant NT; one who can collapse the pocket, always command double-teams, is a "wide-body" and very hard to run up the middle against, usually around 340-360 pounds, has quick and active feet, uses excellent leverage, etc.

All this does is free up all four LB's to attack and read and react. It also allows at least one of the DE's to be one-on-one and also get pressure. Right now, we have it backwards and only Smith commands double teams which makes Franklin's play overrated in my mind. At best, he can hold the point for a second or two but is more often then not getting driven back by ONE linemen. He'll never be the type of NT who can collapse the pocket and disallow a QB from stepping up freely and RB's usually don't have too much trouble running up the gut either. 'Solid" is right but we need "dominant" IMHO.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by zugschef:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I give him a 1 as he is unworthy of double teams... gets pancaked when he is doubled... and offers next to nothing to assist in our pass rush. In the second half of the season, he moved up to a 1.5 or 2. Franklin is still a below average starter, and I see very little possibility for much improvement.

I agree...the skill-set of Franklin & Sopoaga together in the interior in a 4-3 would be solid. Individually, at the NT position, neither have the build, skill-set or mindset to play and excel at that position. Square peg - round hole.

i don't agree at all. franklin's play was one of the main reasons (besides playing against pretty bad teams) that the defense finished as strong as it did last season. he's not a pro bowl calibre player, far from it, but he's a solid starter. (and at least he doesn't poke other people in the eye.^^)

That was a good one! "Solid" I agree with but in order to run a true 3-4 a team needs a dominant NT; one who can collapse the pocket, always command double-teams, is a "wide-body" and very hard to run up the middle against, usually around 340-360 pounds, has quick and active feet, uses excellent leverage, etc.

All this does is free up all four LB's to attack and read and react. It also allows at least one of the DE's to be one-on-one and also get pressure. Right now, we have it backwards and only Smith commands double teams which makes Franklin's play overrated in my mind. At best, he can hold the point for a second or two but is more often then not getting driven back by ONE linemen. He'll never be the type of NT who can collapse the pocket and disallow a QB from stepping up freely and RB's usually don't have too much trouble running up the gut either. 'Solid" is right but we need "dominant" IMHO.

I think people generalize the 3-4 a bit. What kind of 3-4? You can't just say 4-3 for example, right? When talking about 4-3 people recognize that there are different types, and different body types that teams prefer. Big strong lineman, small quick lineman? In a 3-4, however, people assume that there is 1 body type and that's it. Our team has consistently targeted smaller lineman. Justin Smith is a shade under 280, and is perhaps one of the best 3-4 ends in the game. Douglas, also hovering around 285 was a great player for us for several years. The team sees Balmer, who will never exceed 320 (at most) as the future NT. We are obviously looking for quicker lineman that can penetrate into the backfield, and Franklin fits the bill.

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by zugschef:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I give him a 1 as he is unworthy of double teams... gets pancaked when he is doubled... and offers next to nothing to assist in our pass rush. In the second half of the season, he moved up to a 1.5 or 2. Franklin is still a below average starter, and I see very little possibility for much improvement.

I agree...the skill-set of Franklin & Sopoaga together in the interior in a 4-3 would be solid. Individually, at the NT position, neither have the build, skill-set or mindset to play and excel at that position. Square peg - round hole.

i don't agree at all. franklin's play was one of the main reasons (besides playing against pretty bad teams) that the defense finished as strong as it did last season. he's not a pro bowl calibre player, far from it, but he's a solid starter. (and at least he doesn't poke other people in the eye.^^)

That was a good one! "Solid" I agree with but in order to run a true 3-4 a team needs a dominant NT; one who can collapse the pocket, always command double-teams, is a "wide-body" and very hard to run up the middle against, usually around 340-360 pounds, has quick and active feet, uses excellent leverage, etc.

All this does is free up all four LB's to attack and read and react. It also allows at least one of the DE's to be one-on-one and also get pressure. Right now, we have it backwards and only Smith commands double teams which makes Franklin's play overrated in my mind. At best, he can hold the point for a second or two but is more often then not getting driven back by ONE linemen. He'll never be the type of NT who can collapse the pocket and disallow a QB from stepping up freely and RB's usually don't have too much trouble running up the gut either. 'Solid" is right but we need "dominant" IMHO.

I think people generalize the 3-4 a bit. What kind of 3-4? You can't just say 4-3 for example, right? When talking about 4-3 people recognize that there are different types, and different body types that teams prefer. Big strong lineman, small quick lineman? In a 3-4, however, people assume that there is 1 body type and that's it. Our team has consistently targeted smaller lineman. Justin Smith is a shade under 280, and is perhaps one of the best 3-4 ends in the game. Douglas, also hovering around 285 was a great player for us for several years. The team sees Balmer, who will never exceed 320 (at most) as the future NT. We are obviously looking for quicker lineman that can penetrate into the backfield, and Franklin fits the bill.

I don't think Balmer has a mental Nose Tackle makeup. He does not have a nasty junk yard dog mentality.

Balmer is better at Defensive end. Heck, even the big guy Sopoaga, at one point last season said he prefers the End position to the Nose , as it was not his cup of tea.

It takes a mentally tough, nasty, powerful SOB to play the Nose. I dont think the 9ers have that type of player on their current roster.

[ Edited by BigMar on Aug 9, 2009 at 10:30:56 ]

You can talk in circles all day, but the bottom line is that Franklin is not a good NT. He may be quicker than he was, but it's still not good enough. He very rarely penetrates on pass downs... rarely gets an extra OL to block him... and gets no push on the OC up the gut to put a dent in the QB pocket. So he's reduced to getting stood up, and he will take a futile arm swipe to bat at a pass. In the run game, he gets owned more than not by a single OL, and gets utterly destroyed by a double team.

[ Edited by oldman9er on Aug 9, 2009 at 10:40:59 ]

$$$ Contract Year $$$

Hopefully it shows