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OL Blocking Pattern Emerging?

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I thought I read somewhere that it seems as though the linemen are picking up the stunts much better this year and that Forrester is a very good coach. (thanks Nolan)

Forrester is a terrible OL coach. I'm sorry let me rephrase - he has yet to prove that he's a decent coach.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=126731&highlight=NinerGM

I started the thread above to combat that myth about Forrester some time ago. If anything what's described here makes me worry a bit given what I've read at each of Forrester's stop as OL coach.

I read the link and as much as Forrester hasn't shown to have great lines, he coached a riddled and heavily injured 2007 offensive line very well. The 2007 Baltimore team was playing 2 OL off the street in the middle of the year or so and one rookie. They were literally decimated and he had them playing solid considering the situation. We were down to our 3rd RT last year and the RT was our main weakness. You can't blame all of that on Forrester. It think he will get good results from our linemen.

I'm just saying what others who watched Forrester for a long time have said for other teams. It's just interesting to me that those teams suddenly got amazingly better once he left. I think it's similar to what Denver fans think about Nolan - I think we know him a little better than they do.

Granted the 2007 line had injuries, it's the comments that were posted not only discuss 2007 but about most places he's been :

Finally, it's worth noting that the Baltimore Ravens changed offensive line coaches. Gone is Chris Foerster, who served as the team's offensive line coach since 2005. The Ravens line was miserable in '05, better in '06, and not very good in '07. In 2004, his last year in Miami, his line surrendered the second most sacks in the league (52) and tied for last in yards per rush (3.5). Foerster was hired by San Francisco this year, and I suppose it should surprise no one that the 49ers are 25th in rushing yards, and 3rd worst in sacks allowed (45).

I guess what's of note is what a fan said....

And could someone please tell me how Chris Foerster gets a hall pass? Here’s a coach who left Miami in 2004 after his O-Line was tied for second worst in the league in sacks allowed (52). They also were tied for dead last in average yards per rush (3.5 yards).

In 2005 with virtually the same offensive line personnel and without Foerster the Dolphins were fourth best in the league at protecting the quarterback (26 sacks) and tied for seventh best in average per carry (4.3 yards).

And Foerster became the Ravens offensive line coach and assistant head coach why?

http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html


All of which were prior to 2007. So we'll see when it comes to Forrester. Snyder looks like the starter at RT over Smith. What I've read consistently in other places doesn't imbue me with confidence about Forrester, but the jury is still out.

I can wait and see. The first 4 games will be very revealing.

In 2005, MIA acquired Ronnie Brown, a rookie that rushed for 907 yards and Ricky Williams, who rushed for 743 yards. Much better upgrade over Travis Minor who Forrester had along with AJ Feeley.

I do not know how the Ravens personnel on the offensive line changed personnel...

But Joe - I don't get how that applies? Right? Forrester's lines were good at runblocking. Pass-protection - that's another story. Analysis of both the Ravens and Dolphis, his lines were tops in sacks allowed. That's what's concerning.

I understand but I think personnel has a lot to do with it also. BAL or MIA never really had good passing personnel. Forrester had Kyle Boller who probably held onto the ball longer than he should. Either way, a lot of weak areas should get exposed this year...unless our QB play still sucks. It's tough to evaluate personnel or coaches on offense when the QB sucks.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I thought I read somewhere that it seems as though the linemen are picking up the stunts much better this year and that Forrester is a very good coach. (thanks Nolan)

Forrester is a terrible OL coach. I'm sorry let me rephrase - he has yet to prove that he's a decent coach.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=126731&highlight=NinerGM

I started the thread above to combat that myth about Forrester some time ago. If anything what's described here makes me worry a bit given what I've read at each of Forrester's stop as OL coach.

I read the link and as much as Forrester hasn't shown to have great lines, he coached a riddled and heavily injured 2007 offensive line very well. The 2007 Baltimore team was playing 2 OL off the street in the middle of the year or so and one rookie. They were literally decimated and he had them playing solid considering the situation. We were down to our 3rd RT last year and the RT was our main weakness. You can't blame all of that on Forrester. It think he will get good results from our linemen.

I'm just saying what others who watched Forrester for a long time have said for other teams. It's just interesting to me that those teams suddenly got amazingly better once he left. I think it's similar to what Denver fans think about Nolan - I think we know him a little better than they do.

Granted the 2007 line had injuries, it's the comments that were posted not only discuss 2007 but about most places he's been :

Finally, it's worth noting that the Baltimore Ravens changed offensive line coaches. Gone is Chris Foerster, who served as the team's offensive line coach since 2005. The Ravens line was miserable in '05, better in '06, and not very good in '07. In 2004, his last year in Miami, his line surrendered the second most sacks in the league (52) and tied for last in yards per rush (3.5). Foerster was hired by San Francisco this year, and I suppose it should surprise no one that the 49ers are 25th in rushing yards, and 3rd worst in sacks allowed (45).

I guess what's of note is what a fan said....

And could someone please tell me how Chris Foerster gets a hall pass? Here’s a coach who left Miami in 2004 after his O-Line was tied for second worst in the league in sacks allowed (52). They also were tied for dead last in average yards per rush (3.5 yards).

In 2005 with virtually the same offensive line personnel and without Foerster the Dolphins were fourth best in the league at protecting the quarterback (26 sacks) and tied for seventh best in average per carry (4.3 yards).

And Foerster became the Ravens offensive line coach and assistant head coach why?

http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html


All of which were prior to 2007. So we'll see when it comes to Forrester. Snyder looks like the starter at RT over Smith. What I've read consistently in other places doesn't imbue me with confidence about Forrester, but the jury is still out.

I can wait and see. The first 4 games will be very revealing.

In 2005, MIA acquired Ronnie Brown, a rookie that rushed for 907 yards and Ricky Williams, who rushed for 743 yards. Much better upgrade over Travis Minor who Forrester had along with AJ Feeley.

I do not know how the Ravens personnel on the offensive line changed personnel...

But Joe - I don't get how that applies? Right? Forrester's lines were good at runblocking. Pass-protection - that's another story. Analysis of both the Ravens and Dolphis, his lines were tops in sacks allowed. That's what's concerning.

I understand but I think personnel has a lot to do with it also.
BAL or MIA never really had good passing personnel. Forrester had Kyle Boller who probably held onto the ball longer than he should. Either way, a lot of weak areas should get exposed this year...unless our QB play still sucks. It's tough to evaluate personnel or coaches on offense when the QB sucks.

But what you're arguing and what you citing are two different things. Your argument is that he didn't have good personnel because they didn't run well - or because they had injuries. However in every case with the same personnel, those lines were better once Forrester was taken out of the equation. This didn't happen just once but over 4 seasons.

Blaming this solely on QB play I also not the whole story. Forrester also had a decent QB in Miami and Boller wasn't his only starter in Baltimore - he also had McNair for one season, yet they were tops in sacks allowed. No, it's not tough to evaluate a coach if the record and result improves after they leave or are replaced with other personnel. If those lines stayed the same, I can buy that argument - but they didn't. They became not just a little better, but significantly better. I think that's what former fans, reports and coaches who covered those teams are saying.

But even if I follow your line of argument and it's hard to evaluate Forrester, it still doesn't make him a great hire, or "that he might be a good OL coach" - which was your original point"(thanks Nolan)". If anything, it makes Forrester a suspect coach with a shaky at best and we hope his coaching will make this line better.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Aug 4, 2009 at 13:56:48 ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I thought I read somewhere that it seems as though the linemen are picking up the stunts much better this year and that Forrester is a very good coach. (thanks Nolan)

Forrester is a terrible OL coach. I'm sorry let me rephrase - he has yet to prove that he's a decent coach.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=126731&highlight=NinerGM

I started the thread above to combat that myth about Forrester some time ago. If anything what's described here makes me worry a bit given what I've read at each of Forrester's stop as OL coach.

I read the link and as much as Forrester hasn't shown to have great lines, he coached a riddled and heavily injured 2007 offensive line very well. The 2007 Baltimore team was playing 2 OL off the street in the middle of the year or so and one rookie. They were literally decimated and he had them playing solid considering the situation. We were down to our 3rd RT last year and the RT was our main weakness. You can't blame all of that on Forrester. It think he will get good results from our linemen.

I'm just saying what others who watched Forrester for a long time have said for other teams. It's just interesting to me that those teams suddenly got amazingly better once he left. I think it's similar to what Denver fans think about Nolan - I think we know him a little better than they do.

Granted the 2007 line had injuries, it's the comments that were posted not only discuss 2007 but about most places he's been :

Finally, it's worth noting that the Baltimore Ravens changed offensive line coaches. Gone is Chris Foerster, who served as the team's offensive line coach since 2005. The Ravens line was miserable in '05, better in '06, and not very good in '07. In 2004, his last year in Miami, his line surrendered the second most sacks in the league (52) and tied for last in yards per rush (3.5). Foerster was hired by San Francisco this year, and I suppose it should surprise no one that the 49ers are 25th in rushing yards, and 3rd worst in sacks allowed (45).

I guess what's of note is what a fan said....

And could someone please tell me how Chris Foerster gets a hall pass? Here’s a coach who left Miami in 2004 after his O-Line was tied for second worst in the league in sacks allowed (52). They also were tied for dead last in average yards per rush (3.5 yards).

In 2005 with virtually the same offensive line personnel and without Foerster the Dolphins were fourth best in the league at protecting the quarterback (26 sacks) and tied for seventh best in average per carry (4.3 yards).

And Foerster became the Ravens offensive line coach and assistant head coach why?

http://ravens24x7.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html


All of which were prior to 2007. So we'll see when it comes to Forrester. Snyder looks like the starter at RT over Smith. What I've read consistently in other places doesn't imbue me with confidence about Forrester, but the jury is still out.

I can wait and see. The first 4 games will be very revealing.

In 2005, MIA acquired Ronnie Brown, a rookie that rushed for 907 yards and Ricky Williams, who rushed for 743 yards. Much better upgrade over Travis Minor who Forrester had along with AJ Feeley.

I do not know how the Ravens personnel on the offensive line changed personnel...

But Joe - I don't get how that applies? Right? Forrester's lines were good at runblocking. Pass-protection - that's another story. Analysis of both the Ravens and Dolphis, his lines were tops in sacks allowed. That's what's concerning.

I understand but I think personnel has a lot to do with it also.
BAL or MIA never really had good passing personnel. Forrester had Kyle Boller who probably held onto the ball longer than he should. Either way, a lot of weak areas should get exposed this year...unless our QB play still sucks. It's tough to evaluate personnel or coaches on offense when the QB sucks.

But what you're arguing and what you citing are two different things. Your argument is that he didn't have good personnel because they didn't run well - or because they had injuries. However in every case with the same personnel, those lines were better once Forrester was taken out of the equation. This didn't happen just once but over 4 seasons.

Blaming this solely on QB play I also not the whole story. Forrester also had a decent QB in Miami and Boller wasn't his only starter in Baltimore - he also had McNair for one season, yet they were tops in sacks allowed. No, it's not tough to evaluate a coach if the record and result improves after they leave or are replaced with other personnel. If those lines stayed the same, I can buy that argument - but they didn't. They became not just a little better, but significantly better. I think that's what former fans, reports and coaches who covered those teams are saying.

But even if I follow your line of argument and it's hard to evaluate Forrester, it still doesn't make him a great hire, or "that he might be a good OL coach" - which was your original point"(thanks Nolan)". If anything, it makes Forrester a suspect coach with a shaky at best and we hope his coaching will make this line better.

I'm basing my opinion on how he faired with a decimated BAL OL and how he helped our passing game last year. Yes, we gave up a lot of sacks but our RT position was the weak point and then we only got stronger once Rachal came in. Add this into the Martz offensive scheme and I don't think our line was as bad as some think.

Hill came in and decreased the sack totals with an even worse RT in, Barry Simms. I think the offense and QB have A LOT to do with how the line performs.

We will see this year, but of course, both of us hope you're wrong and I'm right.