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Does anybody believe that our pass rush is any better?

Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?



"Sing, sing, sing...." "motivate, motivate, motivate......" "fire, fire, fire..." Get the hell outta here with all that noise.

Mike Singletary is not a miracle worker!

You know something, belief can work miracles...I have seen it for myself. When Joe believed that Coach Walsh was speakin' the truth, do you think that those precision drives came from doubt?

You may not believe Krizay, but many do and that, in itself, must be respected.

Motivation is simply a way to touch the soul to work that much harder...well, what the hell is wrong with that in the first place? Second, Singletary knows first hand what it takes to be a champion from anyone on that field. I trust he knows what he's doing.

Dang it, why in the world would anyone want to demean, ridicule, or undermine an established champion who only wants to share his experience to make us what we once were: CHAMPIONS.

I just don't get it...

On simply the issue of the pass-rush...nothing has changed except who is playing the SAM and WILL roles. One thing has changed and that is Manny Lawson becoming the other edge rusher instead of TBC or Green. That is it. I thought that was clearly said.

Is Manny it? We will see whether you like it or not. If you think Manny is there to "fix" the pass rush, then you will be happy. If not, oh well...there is next year's DE/OLB rich draft.

IMO, please support your team and root for Manny. He is, after all, our solution to the pass rush for now.

Still, why do people just demonstrate a negative, sarcastic view point toward a man who only knows how to win and will do everything to get there? Why?

For me, who gives a rat's azz...seriously? Our opinions don't matter in the bigger scheme of things. Instead, our support does.

That is what I focus on.

Go 49ers!
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by rigs49:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?

Added Pass-rush specialist Al Harris, Marques Harris (rush LB from San Diego). Settled in at a 3-4 defense (no more Big sub), simplified to a one-gap and no more gap control. Got rid of Tully Banta-Cain and Roderick Green, and made Haralson the full time starter.

Doesn't look like much, but believe it or not, those are improvements. Were you expecting Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown or trading for Terrell Suggs or Julius Peppers....I was (to be honest).

If we would have traded for Suggs or Peppers......you wouldn't of heard one beep from me. Kolohe I missed it, Al Harris?

Al Harris bio
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?

Added Pass-rush specialist Al Harris, Marques Harris (rush LB from San Diego). Settled in at a 3-4 defense (no more Big sub), simplified to a one-gap and no more gap control. Got rid of Tully Banta-Cain and Roderick Green, and made Haralson the full time starter.

Doesn't look like much, but believe it or not, those are improvements. Were you expecting Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown or trading for Terrell Suggs or Julius Peppers....I was (to be honest).

Even if we had drafted a rookie passrusher. They weren't going to make much of an impact.

Gholston, Groves anybody?

-9fA

For every Gholston and Groves, there's a Merriman, Wimbley, Ware, Kearse and a Charles Haley.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?

Added Pass-rush specialist Al Harris, Marques Harris (rush LB from San Diego). Settled in at a 3-4 defense (no more Big sub), simplified to a one-gap and no more gap control. Got rid of Tully Banta-Cain and Roderick Green, and made Haralson the full time starter.

Doesn't look like much, but believe it or not, those are improvements. Were you expecting Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown or trading for Terrell Suggs or Julius Peppers....I was (to be honest).

Even if we had drafted a rookie passrusher. They weren't going to make much of an impact.

Gholston, Groves anybody?

-9fA

For every Gholston and Groves, there's a Merriman, Wimbley, Ware, Kearse and a Charles Haley.

True but I do believe (i don't have stats) that most passrushers have mediocre beginnings to the NFL before they finally mature onto the scene.

What i'm trying to say is that 1 draft pick would not have necessarily turned our pass rush woes around THIS year.

-9fA
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?

Added Pass-rush specialist Al Harris, Marques Harris (rush LB from San Diego). Settled in at a 3-4 defense (no more Big sub), simplified to a one-gap and no more gap control. Got rid of Tully Banta-Cain and Roderick Green, and made Haralson the full time starter.

Doesn't look like much, but believe it or not, those are improvements. Were you expecting Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown or trading for Terrell Suggs or Julius Peppers....I was (to be honest).

Even if we had drafted a rookie passrusher. They weren't going to make much of an impact.

Gholston, Groves anybody?

-9fA

For every Gholston and Groves, there's a Merriman, Wimbley, Ware, Kearse and a Charles Haley.

True but I do believe (i don't have stats) that most passrushers have mediocre beginnings to the NFL before they finally mature onto the scene.

What i'm trying to say is that 1 draft pick would not have necessarily turned our pass rush woes around THIS year.

-9fA

First off what do you mean by mediocre, and which players are you referring to?? Without those answers, your statement is rather illogical.

Second, if Merriman or Kamerion Wimbley were with the 9ers as rookies, I'm pretty sure the bias in you would say otherwise, as it would with me.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
First off what do you mean by mediocre, and which players are you referring to?? Without those answers, your statement is rather illogical.

Second, if Merriman or Kamerion Wimbley were with the 9ers as rookies, I'm pretty sure the bias in you would say otherwise, as it would with me.

Players that i'm referring to are those who I mentioned before: Gohlston and Groves. Especially Groves who had a lot of hype on this board.

What i'm trying to say is that pass rushers rarely make an impact in their first year. Hence, even if we did draft a pass rusher in the latest draft, more likely than not, it would not have solved our pass rushing woes FOR THIS SEASON. 2-3 years down the stretch? Sure, they could have a big impact. Rookie year? Probably not.

I actually don't think that I would be biased. I dunno? I do recognize that there is a sizable learning curve. Some guys can pass this hump better than others.

-9fA
they can only get better, not worse
duh...they have to play first.
This team had a chance to upgrade the pass rush, and failed miserably in this draft. We will all look back at some point, scratch our heads, and ask why we didn't draft Lawrence Sidbury, who is off to a super start for the Falcons. I graded him as a mid-third rounder.

Adding Evans will help, and having a more aggressive scheme will help. However, we need to free Manny to a Tampa 2 team that needs a quick backer and pick up another pass rusher who can get after the QB. It is simply not Manny's strength.

Here has been my problem with our defense for about 4 years now: Which two players are most critical in a 3-4 defense? The NT and Will backer. The Niners have never seriously addressed these issues, and that has always held our defense back. The only time we attempted to fill these roles was with Manny at Will, and that experiment bombed.

Since the Niners refuse to fill these positions with top level talent, I continue to advocate that they abandon the 3-4, and play a 4-3. This will maximize Manny and Patrick's talent.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
This team had a chance to upgrade the pass rush, and failed miserably in this draft. We will all look back at some point, scratch our heads, and ask why we didn't draft Lawrence Sidbury, who is off to a super start for the Falcons. I graded him as a mid-third rounder.

Adding Evans will help, and having a more aggressive scheme will help. However, we need to free Manny to a Tampa 2 team that needs a quick backer and pick up another pass rusher who can get after the QB. It is simply not Manny's strength.

Here has been my problem with our defense for about 4 years now: Which two players are most critical in a 3-4 defense? The NT and Will backer. The Niners have never seriously addressed these issues, and that has always held our defense back. The only time we attempted to fill these roles was with Manny at Will, and that experiment bombed.

Since the Niners refuse to fill these positions with top level talent, I continue to advocate that they abandon the 3-4, and play a 4-3. This will maximize Manny and Patrick's talent.

Why do you think that Manny would be better in a 4-3, Tampa 2? He has never played in that system before. People think he is "great" in pass coverage, but I don't agree with that statement. Even worse is the fact that we have nobody to man the other OLB spot. Parys is NOT a 4-3 OLB. Neither is Spikes. Our DL might better be served, but our LB corps takes a big hit.

We need to give the system, and the players within it a full season to see what they can do. Let's judge results after the fact instead of hypothesizing.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?



"Sing, sing, sing...." "motivate, motivate, motivate......" "fire, fire, fire..." Get the hell outta here with all that noise.

Mike Singletary is not a miracle worker!

You know something, belief can work miracles...I have seen it for myself. When Joe believed that Coach Walsh was speakin' the truth, do you think that those precision drives came from doubt?

You may not believe Krizay, but many do and that, in itself, must be respected.

Motivation is simply a way to touch the soul to work that much harder...well, what the hell is wrong with that in the first place? Second, Singletary knows first hand what it takes to be a champion from anyone on that field. I trust he knows what he's doing.

Dang it, why in the world would anyone want to demean, ridicule, or undermine an established champion who only wants to share his experience to make us what we once were: CHAMPIONS.

I just don't get it...

On simply the issue of the pass-rush...nothing has changed except who is playing the SAM and WILL roles. One thing has changed and that is Manny Lawson becoming the other edge rusher instead of TBC or Green. That is it. I thought that was clearly said.

Is Manny it? We will see whether you like it or not. If you think Manny is there to "fix" the pass rush, then you will be happy. If not, oh well...there is next year's DE/OLB rich draft.

IMO, please support your team and root for Manny. He is, after all, our solution to the pass rush for now.

Still, why do people just demonstrate a negative, sarcastic view point toward a man who only knows how to win and will do everything to get there? Why?

For me, who gives a rat's azz...seriously? Our opinions don't matter in the bigger scheme of things. Instead, our support does.

That is what I focus on.

Go 49ers!



If by saying Sing isn't a miracle worker is demeaning or ridiculing him. Then I guess i'm guilty. You guys are expecting him to turn water into to wine just because of the way he talks.
  • MikeyVnutz
  • Info N/A
no doubt about it.... it was so lackluster last year that its bound to be better this year.. hopefully manny makes a difference and ups those sacks numbers
Any pass rushers added to roster? NO
Any good NT's added to team? NO
Simplified scheme, and Nolan gone will help? YES
will pass rush be much unproved? NO
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?



"Sing, sing, sing...." "motivate, motivate, motivate......" "fire, fire, fire..." Get the hell outta here with all that noise.

Mike Singletary is not a miracle worker!

You know something, belief can work miracles...I have seen it for myself. When Joe believed that Coach Walsh was speakin' the truth, do you think that those precision drives came from doubt?

You may not believe Krizay, but many do and that, in itself, must be respected.

Motivation is simply a way to touch the soul to work that much harder...well, what the hell is wrong with that in the first place? Second, Singletary knows first hand what it takes to be a champion from anyone on that field. I trust he knows what he's doing.

Dang it, why in the world would anyone want to demean, ridicule, or undermine an established champion who only wants to share his experience to make us what we once were: CHAMPIONS.

I just don't get it...

On simply the issue of the pass-rush...nothing has changed except who is playing the SAM and WILL roles. One thing has changed and that is Manny Lawson becoming the other edge rusher instead of TBC or Green. That is it. I thought that was clearly said.

Is Manny it? We will see whether you like it or not. If you think Manny is there to "fix" the pass rush, then you will be happy. If not, oh well...there is next year's DE/OLB rich draft.

IMO, please support your team and root for Manny. He is, after all, our solution to the pass rush for now.

Still, why do people just demonstrate a negative, sarcastic view point toward a man who only knows how to win and will do everything to get there? Why?

For me, who gives a rat's azz...seriously? Our opinions don't matter in the bigger scheme of things. Instead, our support does.

That is what I focus on.

Go 49ers!



If by saying Sing isn't a miracle worker is demeaning or ridiculing him. Then I guess i'm guilty. You guys are expecting him to turn water into to wine just because of the way he talks.

It is undoubtely wise to moderate or temper one's enthusiasm, especially at this time of year. No one should, reasonably, be expecting any miracles from Singletary or from the team.

Nevertheless, simply the fact that there is a new and different head coach, and the fact that the other, now dismissed head coach is no longer around screwing things up, gives reason for some renewed optimism and hope for the coming season. IMHO.

I like what I've seen, so far, from Singletary's regime, especially in contrast to Nolan's, and I'm looking forward to more good news--albeit with a somewhat skeptical attitude. As someone said, "don't tell me, show me."

Go Niners!
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by rigs49:
Can anyone honestly say that we have upgraded since last year? I mean what was done this off season to fix the pass rush?



"Sing, sing, sing...." "motivate, motivate, motivate......" "fire, fire, fire..." Get the hell outta here with all that noise.

Mike Singletary is not a miracle worker!

You know something, belief can work miracles...I have seen it for myself. When Joe believed that Coach Walsh was speakin' the truth, do you think that those precision drives came from doubt?

You may not believe Krizay, but many do and that, in itself, must be respected.

Motivation is simply a way to touch the soul to work that much harder...well, what the hell is wrong with that in the first place? Second, Singletary knows first hand what it takes to be a champion from anyone on that field. I trust he knows what he's doing.

Dang it, why in the world would anyone want to demean, ridicule, or undermine an established champion who only wants to share his experience to make us what we once were: CHAMPIONS.

I just don't get it...

On simply the issue of the pass-rush...nothing has changed except who is playing the SAM and WILL roles. One thing has changed and that is Manny Lawson becoming the other edge rusher instead of TBC or Green. That is it. I thought that was clearly said.

Is Manny it? We will see whether you like it or not. If you think Manny is there to "fix" the pass rush, then you will be happy. If not, oh well...there is next year's DE/OLB rich draft.

IMO, please support your team and root for Manny. He is, after all, our solution to the pass rush for now.

Still, why do people just demonstrate a negative, sarcastic view point toward a man who only knows how to win and will do everything to get there? Why?

For me, who gives a rat's azz...seriously? Our opinions don't matter in the bigger scheme of things. Instead, our support does.

That is what I focus on.

Go 49ers!



If by saying Sing isn't a miracle worker is demeaning or ridiculing him. Then I guess i'm guilty. You guys are expecting him to turn water into to wine just because of the way he talks.

Dude, you weren't being saracastic in your post above? You were ridiculing, mocking, making fun of the motivational aspect in Singletary's coaching?

And no, we are not subscribing to your notion of Singletary as a miracle worker. I am saying that you, as well as others here, are exaggerating and dramatizing the impact of how Singletary is taking care of business with motivational speaking which is one of his vehicles for success.

Singletary's success will be based on his compilation of all his football skills especially at the NFL level. Motivation is but one of them and a very important one at that.

Maybe others are just hanging their hat on that one trait of Singletary's. Me? I believe that most underestimate what Singletary can do. I believe that he can succeed with this where Nolan failed.