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Am I the only one not convined with this O-Line?

Originally posted by rapid4:
Chilo will be a beast! Why did we waste a 4th round pick on Cody Wallace? RT hurts twice as bad, because Snyder/Sims don't pass protect and they don't block well enough to do it alone without help from Vernon. Marvel can do it if he's healthy, but we need someone better if he's not.

We need 2 linemen -- a starting veteran RT for when Marvel is re-injured, and a G-C. to prepare to replace Baas (isn't his contract up after this year?) and back up Heitmann. For now, it's only adequate (maybe).

We drafted Wallace as insurance for Heitmann, who was returning from injury and in the last year of his contract.

The drafting of a center did not bother me as much as the player selected. I saw Wallace as 7th round value, and saw John Sullivan as early 4th round value. As of today, Cody is no where ready to play, and Sullivan was so solid that the Vikings allowed Matt Birk to walk away in free agency.

The Colts also drafted three centers from last year that played a role on the team, and all appear to have greater upside than Wallace. The Niners simply selected the wrong guy.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners have three pieces in place. Staley and Heitmann are solid, and should play at a high level. Rachal displayed some excellent upside last year, and should improve. He is certainly not close to being a finished product, and will have some growing pains. But, I see good signs.

The two weaknesses are at LG and RT. Baas is fine going forward, but does not have solid lateral skills. This limits the Niners' ability to pull him to the right on running plays. He is on the last year of his contract, and better raise his game this year. Otherwise, the Niners are going to let him walk.

At RT, we have a couple talented players in M. Smith and A. Boone. Smith is clearly the best player, but has health issues. Boone has potential, but must stay focused and disciplined. He's got a long ways to go. Sims is backup material, and Snyder is the all-around backup across the line.

One forgotten member of the line is Jacob Bender. He has a chance to make this squad as a backup for Smith.

That was my line of thinkin too...except ididnt think Baas was all that great going forward either. I just keep thinking back to LA and JJ where each could take out one man on ther own and then LA would just go straight to the second level. Baas usually needs help. On top of that McCloughan never thinks too highly of guards...even though he picks them awfully high so i think hes a goner no matter what...and then what behind him? We have nothing even substantial at this point.

Boone I wasnt sure of his attitude before but i think hes really getting on point with his focus. I just dont see him making that much of an impact this season.

I'm pretty resigned to all of these opinions these days, but I'll just say that Baas was probably the #2 guy that I keyed on most while watching and replaying 9er games... mostly because of opinions like this in bold. Yes, it's just my opinion, but Baas played very well and has been astonishingly underrated by some fans. Maybe it's out of resentment because of how long it took him to really see the field. I was very impressed with his overall game last season. He sometimes struggled to get where he needs to be on far pull blocks, but otherwise, is very solid in pass and run blocking in a limited range.

Thank you! I saw the same thing and he had to switch positions to LG after playing VERY well at RG in 2005 esp. towards the end of that year who Nolan then gave the job back to Smiley. He plays with a mean streak and now that he's got a full year under his belt, hopefully he'll be able to let loose and dominant instead of "thinking" while he's playing.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think the Niners have three pieces in place. Staley and Heitmann are solid, and should play at a high level. Rachal displayed some excellent upside last year, and should improve. He is certainly not close to being a finished product, and will have some growing pains. But, I see good signs.

The two weaknesses are at LG and RT. Baas is fine going forward, but does not have solid lateral skills. This limits the Niners' ability to pull him to the right on running plays. He is on the last year of his contract, and better raise his game this year. Otherwise, the Niners are going to let him walk.

At RT, we have a couple talented players in M. Smith and A. Boone. Smith is clearly the best player, but has health issues. Boone has potential, but must stay focused and disciplined. He's got a long ways to go. Sims is backup material, and Snyder is the all-around backup across the line.

One forgotten member of the line is Jacob Bender. He has a chance to make this squad as a backup for Smith.

That was my line of thinkin too...except ididnt think Baas was all that great going forward either. I just keep thinking back to LA and JJ where each could take out one man on ther own and then LA would just go straight to the second level. Baas usually needs help. On top of that McCloughan never thinks too highly of guards...even though he picks them awfully high so i think hes a goner no matter what...and then what behind him? We have nothing even substantial at this point.

Boone I wasnt sure of his attitude before but i think hes really getting on point with his focus. I just dont see him making that much of an impact this season.

I'm pretty resigned to all of these opinions these days, but I'll just say that Baas was probably the #2 guy that I keyed on most while watching and replaying 9er games... mostly because of opinions like this in bold. Yes, it's just my opinion, but Baas played very well and has been astonishingly underrated by some fans. Maybe it's out of resentment because of how long it took him to really see the field. I was very impressed with his overall game last season. He sometimes struggled to get where he needs to be on far pull blocks, but otherwise, is very solid in pass and run blocking in a limited range.

Thank you! I saw the same thing and he had to switch positions to LG after playing VERY well at RG in 2005 esp. towards the end of that year who Nolan then gave the job back to Smiley. He plays with a mean streak and now that he's got a full year under his belt, hopefully he'll be able to let loose and dominant instead of "thinking" while he's playing.

Hmm I might be in the minority then but i really thought Smiley was a beast the last two years he played with us. I mean pass protection for a guard he was outstanding and he was getting better and better in the run game. I alwyas thought he quite clearly won the job from Baas. He went to miami and just kept that level of play up. Dont get me wrong Baas shows flashes but hes just not someone i think is consitent or who can be dominant. And thats my basic bone with him.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by ruthless49er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I thhought Larry Allen really declined in 2007. He could drive block like the typical stud, but ask him to move his feet (run or pass blocking) and it was a mess. (see Rocky Bernard sack on Alex) Anyway, not gonna make a big deal of it. Baas looked good to me, but still has to prove he can continue to stay healthy and play well.

I completely agree. I was looking at his 06 season.

Then I agree... Allen was pretty solid in 06. Unfortunately, Kwame was his typical horrendous self in pass protection, and actually helped to overshadow that Jonas was losing his ability to block edge rushers as well. Yes, yes... I know... Alexcuses. After all, a 1st overall pick doesn't need pass protection... < insert eye roll >

(not all directed toward you, ruthless)

I may be wrong but i recall JJ giving up one or two sacks at most that year we gave up 32. kwame had abotu 9 by himself and Allen let in 7 i think im not too sure. In pass blocking Allen was just able. It was all him and JJ that accounted for more than 40 to 50% of Gores runs that year. But im with you on that. Alex never had great protection. I think that contributed to his stunted growth...although he should really learn to get the ball out quicker too. learning how to do that can only help him and us if he starts
Most of the starting members have something to prove. Especially players like Baas who is in his last contract year and Smith who despite nagging injuries can prove he can finally hold down the RT spot.

As a group, I think they'll perform average...and until maybe mid season will they really start to gel.
I see your concerns, BUT...

Staley has a real good chance for pro bowl this year,
Baas has potential and should have a good season getting a full year at starter,
Heitman gets ALOT of credit from people around the NFL, maybe too much..
Rachal can be a sleeper and possible pro bowler, I love his potential
Smith brings leadership, and that grind it out approach which will help the run game

Backups..

Snyder can come in and help at T, or G
Wragge is very solid IMO..

We should have the best season, from the oline stand point since 06
Two quick points here (opinions)...

Smiley was good in 2006, but in 2007 under Hostler, his play sharply declined before he fell to injury.

Judging Jonas Jennings or any OL for only their sacks allowed stats is a really poor way of evaluating an OL.
I'm neutral on it -- wait and see mode.

Baas is simply average but remember last year though that he was coming off a torn pectoral injury that caused him to miss all of training camp IIRC. He does have some room for improvement.

My biggest concern is RT. Again.

-9fA
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I'm neutral on it -- wait and see mode.

Baas is simply average but remember last year though that he was coming off a torn pectoral injury that caused him to miss all of training camp IIRC. He does have some room for improvement.

My biggest concern is RT. Again.
-9fA

this
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Two quick points here (opinions)...

Smiley was good in 2006, but in 2007 under Hostler, his play sharply declined before he fell to injury.

Judging Jonas Jennings or any OL for only their sacks allowed stats is a really poor way of evaluating an OL.

I think Smiley was battling injuries all two years. I think it got worse in 07.

Hmm about JJ i wouldve thought less than 2 sacks given up and bieng top 5 runnin tandem was enough to judge an OLinman.
  • WestCoastNut
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I hope the sum is greater than its parts. They're good size. I hope they are mobile enough to pass protect, and sufficiently fit to keep rolling in the 4th Qtr when we need to impose our will through the running game.
I like a lot of what I see from the o-line.
I assume that the team did their homework and Smith is ready for a healthy year . . . until proven otherwise
I think that Baas has potential and could therive under Jimmy Raye.
I think that lack of continuity, poor play at Left guard and overly complicated Martz schemes made our O-line look worse than they were last year.
I have concerns, but I am optrimistic, and I think that we have both talent and depth to do well and improve as the season wears on.