Is Clements playing like our #1 CB? (earning his $47 Mill Guarenteed)

Originally posted by anamvar:
0 touchdowns????????? what happen to that blocked field goal he had aginst the giants where he picked it up and scored??

how about the few picks he had where our offense ended up scoring.. i can name 2 off the top of my head.. once against the bucs and one against the rams..

how bout when he blocked a field goal against the browns????

or when against the Saints when brees threw that 70-80 yard bomb on clements, clements tackled the WR on the 1 yard line.. the saints when for it on 4 th down but never ended up scoring????

stats dont mean everything...

He didn't block the kick and then score - I already addressed this. I give it to him that he was in the right place at the right time. And yes, some INTs helped. And yes, he has made a couple of other good plays here and there, I also give that to him. Look, I'm not trying to bash Clements but I just don't see him living up to his praise and expectancies.

To be devil's advocate, we can look at games where he is burned (by TO for instance), or other receivers -- I don't memorize every game. And the fact that he was thrown on for a 70-80 yard bomb and tackled him on the 1-yd line is NOT good play. Yes, I understand they didn't score. But are u saying he GAVE that pass up? That shouldn't be happening as a #1 $80 mil player. Not only that, the pick against the 2nd string Bucs that lead to a TD for our offense against their 2nd string defense is . I'm just trying to be realistic here by taking the other side of the argument.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:
I am just curious to see how everyone thinks this signing has worked out for us.

"The former Ohio State star, a first-round choice of the Bills in the 2001 draft, is a physical cornerback who combines size, speed and raw coverage skills. In his six years with the Bills, he never missed a game, appearing in 96 straight. He registered 432 tackles, 23 interceptions, 61 passes defensed, 1½ sacks, 13 forced fumbles and four recoveries."
Not shown is the 5 defensive TDs.


Since signing for the 49ers:
155 Total Tackles
1 Sack
7 Interceptions
4 Forced Fumbles
23 Passes defended
0 TDs


If I make VERY loose averages, he'd end 6 years for us with (I'm taking avgs from the two seasons with us)
450 total tackles
3 sacks
19 INTs
12 forced fumbles
67 passes defended

Again, these are loose averages and I doubt he'll be with our team for 4 more years putting up the same numbers as he has been, but hey this is just for fun. These stats are great looking on paper, but I have issues with them.

Now, considering when he was signed, it was as somewhat of an end-all for our secondary woes; and I feel that he has done a decent job. However, when he signed for 80 mil I was expecting game changing plays like that of Reed, Polamalu, or extreme shut-down in the likes of Nnamdi or Champ. I realize our team has been horrific in his years here, but their teams were nothing of brilliance either over the years they excelled. He did force a fumble that went into the back of the endzone during a game in St. Louis that helped us, but I really cannot think of a time that he has taken over a game or even really turned the tide. When he has made INTs i feel that most were terrible throws. I just don't know if he was worth the money in the long run.

Side Note: I absolutely love Nate Clements as a player -- he is a die hard competitor and has a lot of heart, but I feel he has not lived up to the great shutdown CB I thought he has.

Don't tear me apart I know the avgs are loose and there has been horrible offensive support -- but OVERALL, how do you all feel about Nasty Nate? And I'm not trying to bag him -- I like the guy -- but let's think about the factors of money to production.

Maybe I'm missing something that you are doing different, but the numbers for 6 years based on your 2 year data should be:

465 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
21 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
69 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

Except for the 2 int difference and the 0TD "prediction", his numbers are better or as good as they were with Buffalo. They gave him that much money knowing what his capabilities were and I assume they expected him to do at least as well...

I personally like the guy! He has swagger, confidence, is an extremely good tackler out in the open, especially 1on1, and has done a great job for us so far. I know he got beat a couple of times last year, but look at what Bly said himself...

“...But I don’t care who you are, if you don’t have a pass rush and you’re not aggressive on defense, they’re gonna catch a ball."
Link

You cant expect much out of the secondary if there isnt much help up front. I think we are getting our money's worth and support nate !

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

Originally posted by MiamiNiner:

He is exactly what the niners needed at the time we signed him and has played great. We have not had to worry about capabilities of the CB on that side. More pass rush and even better statistics, including more interceptions, TDs, etc

For $80 million, he was needed as a game-changer. As someone who could help the rest of the secondary get better. As someone who was feared and game-planned against by other teams. I see none of that. Walt Harris has been more productive and influential in the team. It's just not what I had in mind when signing him.

Walt Harris is injured and aint playing.

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Maybe I'm missing something that you are doing different, but the numbers for 6 years based on your 2 year data should be:

465 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
21 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
69 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

Except for the 2 int difference and the 0TD "prediction", his numbers are better or as good as they were with Buffalo. They gave him that much money knowing what his capabilities were and I assume they expected him to do at least as well...

I personally like the guy! He has swagger, confidence, is an extremely good tackler out in the open, especially 1on1, and has done a great job for us so far. I know he got beat a couple of times last year, but look at what Bly said himself...

“...But I don’t care who you are, if you don’t have a pass rush and you’re not aggressive on defense, they’re gonna catch a ball."
Link

You cant expect much out of the secondary if there isnt much help up front. I think we are getting our money's worth and support nate !

Like I said twice or maybe 3 times, I know the averages are wrong. I just rounded up/down. And I never once said there would be 0 TDs in his time here, I am saying the fact that that has not happened yet OTHER THAN BEING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF A BLOCKED KICK means he is somewhat of a disappointment in the terms of being the complete shutdown, momentum-turning, game-changing corner we signed him to be. I want to see him pick 6 for God's sake. Maybe I'm greedy, but I want him to live up to f**king 80 million dollars

Originally posted by MiamiNiner:

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

Originally posted by MiamiNiner:

He is exactly what the niners needed at the time we signed him and has played great. We have not had to worry about capabilities of the CB on that side. More pass rush and even better statistics, including more interceptions, TDs, etc

For $80 million, he was needed as a game-changer. As someone who could help the rest of the secondary get better. As someone who was feared and game-planned against by other teams. I see none of that. Walt Harris has been more productive and influential in the team. It's just not what I had in mind when signing him.

Walt Harris is injured and aint playing.

...I know this. I am looking at the past 2 seasons... Walt Harris has taken over games and sealed a couple. Raiders/Seahawks for instance. Has Nate? No.

Yeah, given Nolan used to be a DB coach, this was his philosophy to build a 3-4 defense completely ass-backwards; spend HUGE dollars on the secondary with Nate, Lewis, FA Roman and Harris and completely ignore the NT position, DE, OLB and go a vanilla 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

Real 3-4 teams START with the NT, DE's, inside-outside pass rush, aggressive scheme and oh, I guess, perhaps address the secondary a bit who could be practically anyone including converted WR's (see Pats) b/c the front 7 is so dominant. Anyone one of us would look like Deion Sanders (e.g. Defensive Receivers) back there behind a dominant front 7.

He didn't really get 80 million guys,it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,not sure what they exact number is.He would look better on a team with better pass rush for sure,any DB would,hopefully our guys will step it up this year and make the opposing QB throw a few more up for grabs.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
He didn't really get 80 million guys,it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,not sure what they exact number is.He would look better on a team with better pass rush for sure,any DB would,hopefully our guys will step it up this year and make the opposing QB throw a few more up for grabs.

$60 mil is still a s**tload, but yes i guess this year will be a good determinant on if he has lived up to it. 3rd year, better defense, better offense than the last two. Hopefully! Can't wait for the season.


I said earlier but no responses -- would he be a good fit as a converted safety when he gets older and less fit to combat the #1 receiver? Kind of how some people on the zone threw around the idea of Walt Harris playing FS.

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:

Maybe I'm missing something that you are doing different, but the numbers for 6 years based on your 2 year data should be:

465 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
21 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
69 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

Except for the 2 int difference and the 0TD "prediction", his numbers are better or as good as they were with Buffalo. They gave him that much money knowing what his capabilities were and I assume they expected him to do at least as well...

I personally like the guy! He has swagger, confidence, is an extremely good tackler out in the open, especially 1on1, and has done a great job for us so far. I know he got beat a couple of times last year, but look at what Bly said himself...

“...But I don’t care who you are, if you don’t have a pass rush and you’re not aggressive on defense, they’re gonna catch a ball."
Link

You cant expect much out of the secondary if there isnt much help up front. I think we are getting our money's worth and support nate !

Like I said twice or maybe 3 times, I know the averages are wrong. I just rounded up/down. And I never once said there would be 0 TDs in his time here, I am saying the fact that that has not happened yet OTHER THAN BEING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF A BLOCKED KICK means he is somewhat of a disappointment in the terms of being the complete shutdown, momentum-turning, game-changing corner we signed him to be. I want to see him pick 6 for God's sake. Maybe I'm greedy, but I want him to live up to f**king 80 million dollars

What?? Math is math... Besides, if you "round" before multiplying the numbers look like this:

468 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
24 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
72 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

I wrote "No Data" for TDs, but it is wrong anyway cause he had 1 as EVERYONE ELSE pointed out. That would give him 6...Also better than his Buffalo performance.

So does $80mil = 1 man team in your mind?? Here are Nmandi's 6-year career numbers for comparison:

[b]257 Total Tackles
2 Sacks
10 Interceptions
2 Forced Fumbles
44 Passes defended
1 TDs
[/b]

Source:
Do some f**king research before pulling stuff out of your A$$ Link

Where are the mods?? This post has no validity to it!

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:


What?? Math is math... Besides, if you "round" before multiplying the numbers look like this:

468 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
24 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
72 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

I wrote "No Data" for TDs, but it is wrong anyway cause he had 1 as EVERYONE ELSE pointed out. That would give him 6...Also better than his Buffalo performance.

So does $80mil = 1 man team in your mind?? Here are Nmandi's 6-year career numbers for comparison:

[b]257 Total Tackles
2 Sacks
10 Interceptions
2 Forced Fumbles
44 Passes defended
1 TDs
[/b]

Source:
Do some f**king research before pulling stuff out of your A$$ Link

First of all, he has that ONE defensive touchdown where he was on the right side of a Manny Lawson blocked kick, which I have mentioned in multiple posts. If he had blocked that kick and then scored, I would have been more impressed than him being where the ball bounced too. Other than that, he has none as a 49er. So saying that he has more and has done better in that category than in buffalo is invalid.
Second, in the very first post I told everyone that my math was off -- I was bored and wanted to write this post not do math of even the easiest form. So relax, I understand it's off. And even then it's like literally 15 - 20 tackles that you're nitpicking about.
Third, I did do research as far as NC was concerned so I pulled nothing out of my ass (other than the averages that I admitted would be wrong and you have proved twice and I have now agreed twice). Hmm...
And finally -- opposing QBs DO NOT throw at Nnamdi Asomugha and therefore his stats are considerably lower. They leave his side of the field alone because he is so incredibly dominant. Not only that, but he was injured in his first year (or maybe two) in Oakland as the nickel corner. Furthermore, I'm sure in Champ Bailey's years when he was THE MAN his stats would be lower due to this same reason. And no, I am not going to do that research.

So maybe re-read? Other than you saying my math was wrong you've done nothing in this thread so, hey, lock it up. Oh, and also -- no I don't think he should be a one man team, but he should shut down the opposing team's best reciever and strike some type of fear in the opposing QB. And he doesn't.

This thread is........

Just an addition to my Nnamdi argument:

Opposing quarterbacks tested Asomugha only 27 times with 8 completions allowed the entire season. Only perennial all-pros Randy Moss (3 receptions, 40 yards) and Tony Gonzalez (2 receptions, 34 yards) would catch more than one ball on him during the year. New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick said Asomugha is "as complete a cornerback as he has seen all year"

^^ worth $60 mil-$80 mil

Originally posted by chico49erfan:

Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:


What?? Math is math... Besides, if you "round" before multiplying the numbers look like this:

468 Total Tackles [(155/2)*6]
3 Sacks
24 Interceptions [(7/2)*6]
12 Forced Fumbles
72 Passes defended [(23/2)*6]
0 TDs - No Data

I wrote "No Data" for TDs, but it is wrong anyway cause he had 1 as EVERYONE ELSE pointed out. That would give him 6...Also better than his Buffalo performance.

So does $80mil = 1 man team in your mind?? Here are Nmandi's 6-year career numbers for comparison:

[b]257 Total Tackles
2 Sacks
10 Interceptions
2 Forced Fumbles
44 Passes defended
1 TDs
[/b]

Source:
Do some f**king research before pulling stuff out of your A$$ Link

First of all, he has that ONE defensive touchdown where he was on the right side of a Manny Lawson blocked kick, which I have mentioned in multiple posts. If he had blocked that kick and then scored, I would have been more impressed than him being where the ball bounced too. Other than that, he has none as a 49er. So saying that he has more and has done better in that category than in buffalo is invalid.
Second, in the very first post I told everyone that my math was off -- I was bored and wanted to write this post not do math of even the easiest form. So relax, I understand it's off. And even then it's like literally 15 - 20 tackles that you're nitpicking about.
Third, I did do research as far as NC was concerned so I pulled nothing out of my ass (other than the averages that I admitted would be wrong and you have proved twice and I have now agreed twice). Hmm...
And finally -- opposing QBs DO NOT throw at Nnamdi Asomugha and therefore his stats are considerably lower. They leave his side of the field alone because he is so incredibly dominant. Not only that, but he was injured in his first year (or maybe two) in Oakland as the nickel corner. Furthermore, I'm sure in Champ Bailey's years when he was THE MAN his stats would be lower due to this same reason. And no, I am not going to do that research.

So maybe re-read? Other than you saying my math was wrong you've done nothing in this thread so, hey, lock it up. Oh, and also -- no I don't think he should be a one man team, but he should shut down the opposing team's best reciever and strike some type of fear in the opposing QB. And he doesn't.

You are still arguing??

-A TD is a TD, I don't care if the QB handed it to him to return it back or the kicker pitched it to him to return it back!

-I don't care if you are bored, asleep, in mars, or at school...Math is Math. If you are going to use a mathematical equation to validate a point, do it right!

-What??? Man, forget you! I'm done here cause no matter what I come back with you are going to keep b***hing back with irrelivent BS! If you dont like him then tell the 49ers to give you a refund for the money you spent to get the guy here! Or go play yourself! Or wait, let our alternative guy play... Brown??

Quote:
Howard Balzer of The Sports Xchange took a look at Nate Clements' contract and concluded that it is not eight years, $80 million as was reported. The deal is actually seven years for $64.02 million.

Balzer reported, "Clements did not receive a signing bonus, but there is a $10 million roster bonus this year, which counts immediately against the salary cap. He will also receive a guaranteed $10 million option bonus in 2008, which for cap purposes will prorate against the cap from 2008 through 2013 at $1.67 million a year."

When the 49ers exercise the option, the final year of the contract, which carries a salary of nearly $16 million, is wiped out.

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=518810

... and as stated, no pass rush and Mike Nolan will make a fool of any DB. Nate Clements is not perfect. His one flaw that irritates me is that his natural aggressiveness tends to make him bite on the double move too much. Otherwise, he is a really good CB in his own right. If we can improve on the pass rush and have him press more often (he turned and ran with WRs too much, or gave large cushions by design), we will see that investment really paying off. Can you imagine our depth chart without him?