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Do we have a realistic shot at winning the NFC West?

Originally posted by IntoTheNiners:
Too early to tell... madden ratings haven't been released yet.

For real, lol
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.


Get real. I love how you always try to somehow equate everything Sing does with Walsh. I love how you also believe that Sing learned everything he knows through some "meetings" with Walsh. Meetings, not actually being on his staff as a coach, but through meetings. This smells like a desperate attempt to justify Sing's employment with this once proud organization. The sooner Sing and Scot are gone, the better off we will be.
Originally posted by 49ERGUY:
Originally posted by 49ERwhiner:
I have to agree that cautiously optimistic is how I feel too. I think we match up fairly well against the teams in our division. Pass rush is still a concern in my mind , until I can finally see some of our players improving. We have as good of a chance as the Seahawks and Cardinals ------ they are always tough opponents for us but our games are usually pretty close matches.

I have to agree those games with the Seahawks and Cardinals are usually hard fought close games so we have a shot at it.

The team is being built to beat the Seahawks, Cards, and Rams. I'm more confident about the division this year than I am out of it. Those late-season games in Philly and Green Bay as well as the game in Indy are the ones that worry me the most.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.

Interesting comparison. I agree that this is their emphasis. Big concern is the "strong pass rush" part of the equation though.

No question we're going to need a strong pass rush, especially against Ariz and Seattle, and late in the season against Balt and Philly.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.

Interesting comparison. I agree that this is their emphasis. Big concern is the "strong pass rush" part of the equation though.

No question we're going to need a strong pass rush, especially against Ariz and Seattle, and late in the season against Balt and Philly.

Right. Like I say, I don't know if they're there yet. We'll see how Manny does this year and maybe Singletary can use his legendary motivational skills to coax some sacks out of Ahmed Brooks.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.

Interesting comparison. I agree that this is their emphasis. Big concern is the "strong pass rush" part of the equation though.

No question we're going to need a strong pass rush, especially against Ariz and Seattle, and late in the season against Balt and Philly.

Right. Like I say, I don't know if they're there yet. We'll see how Manny does this year and maybe Singletary can use his legendary motivational skills to coax some sacks out of Ahmed Brooks.

You think maybe they're gonna have to mix in some blitz packages? I think Manny and Haralson will be better than last year, but still may not be enough.

J. Smith, Fanklin and Sopoaga have to add to the pressure, and maybe some blitz packages as well.

The depth, or lack of depth, at OLB is of concern. IMHO.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.

Interesting comparison. I agree that this is their emphasis. Big concern is the "strong pass rush" part of the equation though.

No question we're going to need a strong pass rush, especially against Ariz and Seattle, and late in the season against Balt and Philly.

Right. Like I say, I don't know if they're there yet. We'll see how Manny does this year and maybe Singletary can use his legendary motivational skills to coax some sacks out of Ahmed Brooks.

You think maybe they're gonna have to mix in some blitz packages? I think Manny and Haralson will be better than last year, but still may not be enough.

J. Smith, Fanklin and Sopoaga have to add to the pressure, and maybe some blitz packages as well.

The depth, or lack of depth, at OLB is of concern. IMHO.

When Manusky was in San Diego, it seemed like he always had guys flying around in different directions. I expect a lot more aggressiveness this year and I think QB pressure has a lot to do with scheme. But, yes, I think one of the reasons they would be working hard on a guy like Brooks is that lack of depth. I honestly thought they would try to use one of those 1st round picks in a trade for a premier rusher, but what do I know?
  • rob28
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 561
Well i hope we win the west but in reality were the 3rd best team in the divison. if we stay healthy and the seahawks and cards dont, we have a chance.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I think both Scott and Singletary follow one of Walsh's basic rules - build your team to beat the division. How do you beat strong passing teams? With big dominating offenses that control the ball, a strong pass rush and physical secondaries that punish their receivers.

I'm not saying this is what we have; just that this is their emphasis and I like it.

Interesting comparison. I agree that this is their emphasis. Big concern is the "strong pass rush" part of the equation though.

No question we're going to need a strong pass rush, especially against Ariz and Seattle, and late in the season against Balt and Philly.

Right. Like I say, I don't know if they're there yet. We'll see how Manny does this year and maybe Singletary can use his legendary motivational skills to coax some sacks out of Ahmed Brooks.

You think maybe they're gonna have to mix in some blitz packages? I think Manny and Haralson will be better than last year, but still may not be enough.

J. Smith, Fanklin and Sopoaga have to add to the pressure, and maybe some blitz packages as well.

The depth, or lack of depth, at OLB is of concern. IMHO.

When Manusky was in San Diego, it seemed like he always had guys flying around in different directions. I expect a lot more aggressiveness this year and I think QB pressure has a lot to do with scheme. But, yes, I think one of the reasons they would be working hard on a guy like Brooks is that lack of depth. I honestly thought they would try to use one of those 1st round picks in a trade for a premier rusher, but what do I know?

I agree, and we have seen just a little of that since he's been with the Niners. I'd like to see alot more, personally.

Maybe Manusky's got enough talent to scheme for pressure, constantly, but if Manny or Haralson go out for any amount of time, things could get interesting.

I expect all five OLBs to make the final roster, including J Moore, at this point, simply because of the lack of depth.
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.

Yes, I know. But without him, they're left with Brooks, who has yet to prove himself, and Harris, who appears to be a one dimensional--pass rush only--guy.

J. Moore brings more size, more run stopping ability, to go with his pass rush ability, and unlike Brooks, appears to be a hard working, "effort" kind of guy, who is also a solid special teamer. The lack of depth at the position seems to help his chances.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.

Yes, I know. But without him, they're left with Brooks, who has yet to prove himself, and Harris, who appears to be a one dimensional--pass rush only--guy.

J. Moore brings more size, more run stopping ability, to go with his pass rush ability, and unlike Brooks, appears to be a hard working, "effort" kind of guy, who is also a solid special teamer. The lack of depth at the position seems to help his chances.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have to ask how you know all of this about a guy that has spent the last two years on injured reserve. Outside of our rookies, Moore is one of the few players on the team that has actually done less in the league than Brooks. I mean really, how do you know he has pass rush ability or is a solid special teamer if we've never seen him play outside of a handful of pre-season games?
[ Edited by BMore9ersfan on Jul 12, 2009 at 6:35 PM ]
Originally posted by BMore9ersfan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.

Yes, I know. But without him, they're left with Brooks, who has yet to prove himself, and Harris, who appears to be a one dimensional--pass rush only--guy.

J. Moore brings more size, more run stopping ability, to go with his pass rush ability, and unlike Brooks, appears to be a hard working, "effort" kind of guy, who is also a solid special teamer. The lack of depth at the position seems to help his chances.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have to ask how you know all of this about a guy that has spent the last two years on injured reserve. Out side of our rookies, Moore is one of the few players on the team that has actually done less in the league than Brooks. I mean really, how do you know he has pass rush ability or is a solid special teamer if we've never seen him play outside a handful of pre-season games?

I second that, please explain
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.

Yes, I know. But without him, they're left with Brooks, who has yet to prove himself, and Harris, who appears to be a one dimensional--pass rush only--guy.

J. Moore brings more size, more run stopping ability, to go with his pass rush ability, and unlike Brooks, appears to be a hard working, "effort" kind of guy, who is also a solid special teamer. The lack of depth at the position seems to help his chances.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

credibility, credibility, credibility. Wow.
Originally posted by BMore9ersfan:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
The latest things I've read seem to indicate that Jay Moore is going to have a hard time making the squad. MM's last article said he had to leap-frog someone to make it.

Yes, I know. But without him, they're left with Brooks, who has yet to prove himself, and Harris, who appears to be a one dimensional--pass rush only--guy.

J. Moore brings more size, more run stopping ability, to go with his pass rush ability, and unlike Brooks, appears to be a hard working, "effort" kind of guy, who is also a solid special teamer. The lack of depth at the position seems to help his chances.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have to ask how you know all of this about a guy that has spent the last two years on injured reserve. Outside of our rookies, Moore is one of the few players on the team that has actually done less in the league than Brooks. I mean really, how do you know he has pass rush ability or is a solid special teamer if we've never seen him play outside of a handful of pre-season games?

Fair questions, all. Let me explain, more fully, what I was attempting to say.

Start with the size question. Moore is listed at 6'4" and nearly 260. Harris is 6'1" and 245. I think I read recently--M. Burrows' blogs about the OLB position--that Harris is considered a pass rush specialist and, at his size, is a liability against the run.

Moore seems to have the size to hold up against OTs and pulling guards (dunno if he's got anything else), and was known as a pass rushing DE in college--hence the presumption that he can pass rush at least a little, and may be stronger than Harris against the run.

As for his special teams play, all I know is what I've seen in the preseason games he's played in before his injuries, and I'm not trying to say that he's going to be anything great. But we haven't even seen Brooks on ST.

I was only trying to compare him to the other two backups. He seems to have some attributes that they lack. He's got the size (if not the athletic ability) of Brooks, which Harris seems to lack. Everything I've read says he's stuck around and worked out hard for the past two years, and is one of those guys that puts in the effort, in contrast to the knock on Brooks, whose work ethic has been questioned in the past.

So we've got Brooks, who seems to have all the athletic ability and size needed, but hasn't proven himself at OLB, Harris, who's athletic but undersized, but has at least some experience, and J. Moore, who has the size but may lack the eyepopping athtleticism of Brooks and is equally unproven.

With the lack of a big, seasoned vet, for depth at the position, it may be that the team keeps 5 OLBs, which might mean J. Moore has a shot to stick around. That's all I'm saying.

Not trying to be an "expert" at all, just voicing an opinion. Sorry if it came out otherwise.
[ Edited by oldninerdude on Jul 12, 2009 at 9:38 PM ]