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Pass Rush Time!

Sorry for splitting hairs here. YES! Of course I'd like to see constant pressure.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Sorry for splitting hairs here. YES! Of course I'd like to see constant pressure.

Yeah, no worries... I see your side of that one. Guess my overall point if missed was that sack totals don't necessarily paint the full picture. There is so much subjective thinking when looking at QB pressures and sacks derived from coverage, etc. From my overall recollection though, sacks or not, we pretty much failed to generate good and consistent pressure. I don't feel particularly optimistic that this will improve much, but will always be forever faithful that it can.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
Sorry for splitting hairs here. YES! Of course I'd like to see constant pressure.

Yeah, no worries... I see your side of that one. Guess my overall point if missed was that sack totals don't necessarily paint the full picture. There is so much subjective thinking when looking at QB pressures and sacks derived from coverage, etc. From my overall recollection though, sacks or not, we pretty much failed to generate good and consistent pressure. I don't feel particularly optimistic that this will improve much, but will always be forever faithful that it can.

Of course you're right. I cant count the number of times in the last few seasons that I've been just squirming in my seat watching an opposing QB just stand there waiting for someone to come open. If the team fixes that, lots of things will spring from it - interceptions, field position, time on the field, everything.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
It's funny cuz we had a halfway decent pass rush last year, I mean we tied the Colts of all teams for sacks.

That is simply not so. I really wish people would stop looking at the stats when making these claims. Sacks are not the full measure of determining whether a team had a good pass rush or not. Teams can get lots of pressure and still get minimal sack totals... just as they can get consistently lousy pressure and still get decent sack totals. Just because we managed 30 sacks last season does not mean we were able to generate QB pressure on a consistent basis... because we didn't.

All I'm saying is the situation is not as bad as people are making it out to be. Especially since Parys is very young and he's coming off 8 sacks and only started like 11 games last year, plus the possibility of Man-Law finally coming into the fold, the only thing I'm really worried about is the depth at the OLB spots, but especially seeing who are HC is and who our DC is I know we will get more than 30 sacks next year, and we'll get more consistent pressure on the QB.
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
It's funny cuz we had a halfway decent pass rush last year, I mean we tied the Colts of all teams for sacks.

That is simply not so. I really wish people would stop looking at the stats when making these claims. Sacks are not the full measure of determining whether a team had a good pass rush or not. Teams can get lots of pressure and still get minimal sack totals... just as they can get consistently lousy pressure and still get decent sack totals. Just because we managed 30 sacks last season does not mean we were able to generate QB pressure on a consistent basis... because we didn't.

All I'm saying is the situation is not as bad as people are making it out to be. Especially since Parys is very young and he's coming off 8 sacks and only started like 11 games last year, plus the possibility of Man-Law finally coming into the fold, the only thing I'm really worried about is the depth at the OLB spots, but especially seeing who are HC is and who our DC is I know we will get more than 30 sacks next year, and we'll get more consistent pressure on the QB.

Sorry, but that simply doesn't matter as much as ppl think. Sure, Parys wasn't a "starter", but he did come in in passing situations all year (even getting about half his sacks while still a "backup"). Meaning most of the plays he "missed" were runs - he missed only a few chances to rush the passer and thus improve his sack totals due to his "backup" status during the first few games.

I've loved Haralson since the moment we drafted him but he gets all his sacks through hustle, not skill and (frankly) that means he doesn't have much room to improve imo. He already goes all out on most plays, what more can he do? Of course, I hope I'm wrong and his presence on running downs won't wear him down enough to impact his effectiveness on passing downs while he somehow unlocks some hidden athleticism.

I would love to see Manny get more opportunities, though. I think that he, unlike Haralson, still has plenty of room to improve. He has the athleticism to be a much better rusher than Haralson if the light ever comes on...

Basically I'm saying Haralson is better now (though overvalued by this board alot), Lawson has a higher ceiling, and I've got concerns about both being starters going forward.
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
It's funny cuz we had a halfway decent pass rush last year, I mean we tied the Colts of all teams for sacks.

That is simply not so. I really wish people would stop looking at the stats when making these claims. Sacks are not the full measure of determining whether a team had a good pass rush or not. Teams can get lots of pressure and still get minimal sack totals... just as they can get consistently lousy pressure and still get decent sack totals. Just because we managed 30 sacks last season does not mean we were able to generate QB pressure on a consistent basis... because we didn't.

All I'm saying is the situation is not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Hey, I hear you there, but I think getting consistent pass rush should be considered a concern. All we heard heading into the offseason was improve pass rush... improve pass rush. That was supposedly 1st priority and for a reason. I'm not sure what I'm "making it out to be" other than to say it's a big concern. Maybe our new rush-specialist can do wonders with what we have, but getting push/penetration from our NT is gonna be important, and I don't know that we have an answer for that with current personnel.

Especially since Parys is very young and he's coming off 8 sacks and only started like 11 games last year, plus the possibility of Man-Law finally coming into the fold

I actually think Haralson may have topped out, or close to it. He also got some of his sacks in the form of coverage sacks, rather than sheer skill in beating his man on the arc. To add to that, he got 2-3 sacks as a DE in a 4-man line in obvious pass downs. Not trying to take away from his accomplishments, but still... I have been a huge Manny supporter (or is it only called nut-swinger now?), but he really goes in this season as a wildcard. I think he can do well, but has to show it. In other words, I don't think any of our rush LBs are special enough to not need inside pressure to greatly help them.

the only thing I'm really worried about is the depth at the OLB spots, but especially seeing who are HC is and who our DC is I know we will get more than 30 sacks next year, and we'll get more consistent pressure on the QB.

I'm a stronger believer in Jay Moore than most, but he still has to prove he can stay healthy, and I can understand how people can look at both he and Brooks and be concerned.

An even better indicator than sacks for a good pass rush is often turnovers.

Giveaway/Takeaway difference may be the most important statistic in football. We were towards the bottom of that statistic last year.

A good pass rush creates fumbles and interceptions; 2 things of which we need more of.
I'm hoping to see some of the same schemes Manusky used in San Diego. Very aggressive.
Originally posted by BrodieFan:
I'm hoping to see some of the same schemes Manusky used in San Diego. Very aggressive.

Now that he's off Nolan's chain, we just might!