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Countdown to 1st Pre-Season game:IT'S GAME DAY!!!!

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

how about playing him when he has a dislocated shoulder in his throwing arm thats like asking a blind man to cross a freeway seriously im pretty sure he is the only HC in the history of the nfl to start a QB with a dislocation on their throwing arm


Gee the niners just might hold another record then

Here's to 09-10 season
Goniners
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Sure you can ask...The biggest mistake was throwing him to the wolves on the s**tty team we had at the time.Rattay should have been taking the beating until Smith had a year or two to get used to the pro style,and we had a couple of drafts to shore up the offensive line and get some weapons to help a young QB succeed.Any kid coming from that kind of offense is not pro ready,it is just too big of an adjustment from that Urban Meyer offense.The OC thing was out of Nolans hands really so that is just the way of the game.Nolan was just not ready for the job he was given,that became obvious as time passed,if Smith ever succeeds in the NFL it will be more in spite of Nolan than because of him.

You guys wanna lay blame for Smith's rookie season, but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Smith do well in his second season?? I could see if Smith looked horrible his second season and went 3-13, but Smith actually looked more confident. And like Peyton Manning told Smith after they played them at home, the best experience is playing experience.

And that's one of the top reason's why I didn't want to draft Smith first overall. Simply because of the offense he was coming from. But that in no way should be in the hands of Nolan, they saw potential of him becoming a star and they went with it. Can't blame Nolan for having confidence in his rookie QB.

I don't blame him for having confidence in Smith,just for not having the sense to realize that his team was not good enough to hep the young kid succeed.Sure if your rookie qb is on a team with some weapons it can work out,but there was no way that Smith was gonna do well with the absolute lack of talent on the team at the time.Going into that draft I thought Smith was the best choice IF we took a QB.Unfortunately for us,the draft was weak from top to bottom that year.I think Smith should have sat the first year and studied the offense while the organization built up the line and added weapons.This is all academic now though,what is done is done.All I hope for is that whoever the starting qb is,he can get the job done.

Well, like I've been saying, Smith wasn't forced to start. Nolan took over a team that had absolute penny's for cap space, the talent level showed that, so what was Nolan to do at the time?? After all they did go out and get the best offensive lineman that was available to them at the time in Jonas Jennings, its not like they didn't try to build around him. And with that said, the expectations were low with Smith in 2005, no one was expecting him to start, but things will change when your starting QB starts to throw as many picks as he did.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??

It was entirely Nolan's fault -- he was the coach, and it was his job to groom his #1 pick to be the QB of the future.

It wasn't my job to know, as I am not the coach and am not at practice. That said, most anyone who saw the situation unfolding knew that Smith wasn't ready to start. He was 20 years old, looked like a scared puppy, was drafted to be a long-term project, had played in a spread offense mostly from the shotgun, etc, etc. Peyton Manning, on the other hand, played 4 years in college, starting 45 games in college, grew up in a pro system, had been raised in the pro game with his father, was incredibly confident, and was not drafted to be a project. It was well known he was one of the most pro ready rookie QBs to come along in a long time. Even without knowing all of this, the coach should have seen that his young qb was not ready to start with his current skill set and the talent the team had that year. Again, it was his job to develop the kid to lead the team to success in the future.

What do you mean by "Smith wasn't forced to start?" You expected a pro football player to tell the coach not to put him in the game???? That is a career ending move.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??

It was entirely Nolan's fault -- he was the coach, and it was his job to groom his #1 pick to be the QB of the future.

It wasn't my job to know, as I am not the coach and am not at practice. That said, most anyone who saw the situation unfolding knew that Smith wasn't ready to start. He was 20 years old, looked like a scared puppy, was drafted to be a long-term project, had played in a spread offense mostly from the shotgun, etc, etc. Peyton Manning, on the other hand, played 4 years in college, starting 45 games in college, grew up in a pro system, had been raised in the pro game with his father, was incredibly confident, and was not drafted to be a project. It was well known he was one of the most pro ready rookie QBs to come along in a long time. Even without knowing all of this, the coach should have seen that his young qb was not ready to start with his current skill set and the talent the team had that year. Again, it was his job to develop the kid to lead the team to success in the future.

What do you mean by "Smith wasn't forced to start?" You expected a pro football player to tell the coach not to put him in the game???? That is a career ending move.

My god this can go round and round, what aren't you getting, or are you just seeing things without even considering facts. No need to repeat myself, and make a long thread of it.

He wasn't forced to start......Tim Rattay started from game one....what else don't you get??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??

It was entirely Nolan's fault -- he was the coach, and it was his job to groom his #1 pick to be the QB of the future.

It wasn't my job to know, as I am not the coach and am not at practice. That said, most anyone who saw the situation unfolding knew that Smith wasn't ready to start. He was 20 years old, looked like a scared puppy, was drafted to be a long-term project, had played in a spread offense mostly from the shotgun, etc, etc. Peyton Manning, on the other hand, played 4 years in college, starting 45 games in college, grew up in a pro system, had been raised in the pro game with his father, was incredibly confident, and was not drafted to be a project. It was well known he was one of the most pro ready rookie QBs to come along in a long time. Even without knowing all of this, the coach should have seen that his young qb was not ready to start with his current skill set and the talent the team had that year. Again, it was his job to develop the kid to lead the team to success in the future.

What do you mean by "Smith wasn't forced to start?" You expected a pro football player to tell the coach not to put him in the game???? That is a career ending move.

My god this can go round and round, what aren't you getting, or are you just seeing things without even considering facts. No need to repeat myself, and make a long thread of it.

He wasn't forced to start......Tim Rattay started from game one....what else don't you get??

I think we are getting caught up on semantics here.He was forced to start when Rattay was traded away.He wasn't forced to start when Rattay was still here,but once Tim wore out his welcome Smith was forced to start.I think that is the point that was being made.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,134
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??

It was entirely Nolan's fault -- he was the coach, and it was his job to groom his #1 pick to be the QB of the future.

It wasn't my job to know, as I am not the coach and am not at practice. That said, most anyone who saw the situation unfolding knew that Smith wasn't ready to start. He was 20 years old, looked like a scared puppy, was drafted to be a long-term project, had played in a spread offense mostly from the shotgun, etc, etc. Peyton Manning, on the other hand, played 4 years in college, starting 45 games in college, grew up in a pro system, had been raised in the pro game with his father, was incredibly confident, and was not drafted to be a project. It was well known he was one of the most pro ready rookie QBs to come along in a long time. Even without knowing all of this, the coach should have seen that his young qb was not ready to start with his current skill set and the talent the team had that year. Again, it was his job to develop the kid to lead the team to success in the future.

What do you mean by "Smith wasn't forced to start?" You expected a pro football player to tell the coach not to put him in the game???? That is a career ending move.

My god this can go round and round, what aren't you getting, or are you just seeing things without even considering facts. No need to repeat myself, and make a long thread of it.

He wasn't forced to start......Tim Rattay started from game one....what else don't you get??

I think we are getting caught up on semantics here.He was forced to start when Rattay was traded away.He wasn't forced to start when Rattay was still here,but once Tim wore out his welcome Smith was forced to start.I think that is the point that was being made.

But how can you guys see that as FORCED to start, and not as an opportunity to start?? For one, Smith must have showed something in training camp for the coaches to decide to put him as the #2 QB, if he struggled and was having a hard time through camp don't you think the coaches would have put him as the #3 QB??

This is my thing, you people claim that he was forced to start and blame Nolan for it, but if I remember correctly, people on here are always so quick to point out that 2006 was his best year. Which it was, so wouldn't it be to look at the '05 season as positive in a way that it help Smith get experience, after all it did credit Smith with 2 wins in 2005....which I'm sure people will so quickly give him credit for.
We know what we need to do!

3 WR sets = big sub = victory.
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
We know what we need to do!

3 WR sets = big suck = victory.

fixed
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
We know what we need to do!

3 WR sets = big sub = victory.


That is a good one. But we should also use a lot of double tightend sets. We had success in the past with walker n vd when we used this. We just used it so rarely. Not many teams have 2 linebacker that can cover our te's they are both quick. And delany played wr in college. Just a thought. I like the 3wr sets I am a fan of this set as well. Reminds me of the glory days to be honest. And we just may have the wr talent to use this often. But we have to make sure we utilize our talent and give frank the ball 20 times a game. And history shows we win!
That will be my first game at Candlestick!
  • Nuns
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 785
Originally posted by Kolohe:


I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again?

This is my thing, you people claim that he was forced to start and blame Nolan for it, but if I remember correctly, people on here are always so quick to point out that 2006 was his best year. Which it was, so wouldn't it be to look at the '05 season as positive in a way that it help Smith get experience, after all it did credit Smith with 2 wins in 2005....which I'm sure people will so quickly give him credit for.


I think this is being looked at the wrong way. Without being ridiculous, how could Nolan have managed Smith worse? I really don't see how. Would having him sit a season (aka Carson Palmer to your Peyton Manning) have ruined his development? Unlikely. Could he possibly have picked a worse train of OC's (outside of Norv Turner, who could be argued a poor choice due to his potential to become a HC)? That would be difficult.

Could he possibly have handled Smith's injury in a worse manner? The only way to prove he was poorly managed would be for Alex to do well when out from under his management. I'd like to see that.
  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 26,979
Originally posted by Nuns:
Originally posted by Kolohe:


I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again?

This is my thing, you people claim that he was forced to start and blame Nolan for it, but if I remember correctly, people on here are always so quick to point out that 2006 was his best year. Which it was, so wouldn't it be to look at the '05 season as positive in a way that it help Smith get experience, after all it did credit Smith with 2 wins in 2005....which I'm sure people will so quickly give him credit for.


I think this is being looked at the wrong way. Without being ridiculous, how could Nolan have managed Smith worse? I really don't see how. Would having him sit a season (aka Carson Palmer to your Peyton Manning) have ruined his development? Unlikely. Could he possibly have picked a worse train of OC's (outside of Norv Turner, who could be argued a poor choice due to his potential to become a HC)? That would be difficult.

Could he possibly have handled Smith's injury in a worse manner? The only way to prove he was poorly managed would be for Alex to do well when out from under his management. I'd like to see that.

Mike McCarthy was a decent choice (not my preference) for OC. His resume speaks for itself.

Norv Turner was 58-82-1 as a HC when we hired him as OC. At the time it looked like a great move and no one could forsee him getting another HC'ing gig the following year given his previous track record as a HC.

Hostler was hired days before FA started and we had little time to work with to find a replacement for Norv before the start of FA....or would you have preferred we go into FA (and the weeks leading up to the draft) with no OC ? An uncertainty in the offensive system your going to run is not very appealing to any FA's your looking to sign and does nothing to help with shaping your draft board.

Martz was a fine hire. Again previous track record speaks for itself. I still think it was in our best interest to keep him for at least another year and build around his system instead of trying to find an OC who fits a defensive minded HC's ideology. The offensive stability wouldn't have hurt either.
  • KRS-1
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Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Nuns:
Originally posted by Kolohe:


I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again?

This is my thing, you people claim that he was forced to start and blame Nolan for it, but if I remember correctly, people on here are always so quick to point out that 2006 was his best year. Which it was, so wouldn't it be to look at the '05 season as positive in a way that it help Smith get experience, after all it did credit Smith with 2 wins in 2005....which I'm sure people will so quickly give him credit for.


I think this is being looked at the wrong way. Without being ridiculous, how could Nolan have managed Smith worse? I really don't see how. Would having him sit a season (aka Carson Palmer to your Peyton Manning) have ruined his development? Unlikely. Could he possibly have picked a worse train of OC's (outside of Norv Turner, who could be argued a poor choice due to his potential to become a HC)? That would be difficult.

Could he possibly have handled Smith's injury in a worse manner? The only way to prove he was poorly managed would be for Alex to do well when out from under his management. I'd like to see that.

Mike McCarthy was a decent choice (not my preference) for OC. His resume speaks for itself.

Norv Turner was 58-82-1 as a HC when we hired him as OC. At the time it looked like a great move and no one could forsee him getting another HC'ing gig the following year given his previous track record as a HC.

Hostler was hired days before FA started and we had little time to work with to find a replacement for Norv before the start of FA....or would you have preferred we go into FA (and the weeks leading up to the draft) with no OC ? An uncertainty in the offensive system your going to run is not very appealing to any FA's your looking to sign and does nothing to help with shaping your draft board.

Martz was a fine hire. Again previous track record speaks for itself. I still think it was in our best interest to keep him for at least another year and build around his system instead of trying to find an OC who fits a defensive minded HC's ideology. The offensive stability wouldn't have hurt either.

And FTR if we are going to try and fault Nolan for his choice of OC's we could easily do the same already to Sing with his choice of Raye. Raye's track record as an OC is not that of McCarthy's or Martz's so he has a lot to prove at this point in time. Not saying he can't succeed and I hope he does but there were a lot of other coaches out there with greater potential and or a better track record IMHO.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by wwrivers:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by KasparHauser:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Only the fans care bout the Nolan thing, Him and the players could careless...

The Broncos players may not care, but the more Alex succeeds, the more Nolan looks like a failure at handling him. I want to see at least two TD's by Alex, and it would be awesome for one of them be a bomb.

Can I ask which part besides the part about handling Smith injury did Nolan mishandle Smith??

Wow - really? You're a moderator, looking at the site all day and the only fault you saw in Nolan's handling of Smith is the injury?

1. Starting him as rookie on a horrible team.
2. Not hiring an OC that would stick around for more than 1 year.
3. Not firing the line coach after 2005 and making the 55+ sacks per year go away.
4. Not drafting OL or receivers in early rounds.
5. Generally not standing behind the QB the way most NFL coaches do. At some point that both he and Alex were on the hotseat, and he gladly pointed fingers at the then 22 yo QB.

1. David Carr, Peyton Manning, Tim Couch, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman and so on, started on worst teams or started period, why shouldn't Smith ??
I think you just answered your own question there -- only Manning was ready to start at that point. Aikman survived and became a good QB in spite of starting too early, and the others, esp Couch and Carr, ruined their careers by starting too early.

But that's the thing, how do you know or not know who is ready to start as a rookie?? Playing him is the only way of finding out, after all if he was able to be the #2 QB going into the season, you would think he is able. But what about Drew Bledsoe, his team in '92 was coming off a 2-14 season, and was thrown into the fire in '93, 2,400 yards passing 15 TD's 15 INT's??

If you are the coach, it is your job to know who is ready to start as a rookie. The sad thing is the 49ers knew Smith wasn't readt -- they said he wasn't the most ready to start right away, Urban Meyer had said he would be "nonfunctional" until he got it, etc. It was Nolan's job to know if his big money #1 pick was ready to start. It was his job to groom him. Some guys like P Manning were ready to start right away, others aren't. Treating them like they are all the same is incredibly bad coaching. Nolan needed to find ways to help Alex succeed, and he definitely didn't do that. It showed that Nolan has one way and can only deal with one certain type of player. That is not a recipe for success as a coach.

I didn't say it wasn't his job to know, but how will he know if he doesn't play. Remember like Singletary has said, all technique goes out the window once there's live bullets coming at you. But like I said Smith was listed as the #2 QB so Nolan and his offensive staff knew Smith was capable of stepping in if he had to.

Tell me how did you know Peyton was ready to start and Smith wasn't?? Smith wasn't force to start in any way, so how was this Nolan's fault again??

It was entirely Nolan's fault -- he was the coach, and it was his job to groom his #1 pick to be the QB of the future.

It wasn't my job to know, as I am not the coach and am not at practice. That said, most anyone who saw the situation unfolding knew that Smith wasn't ready to start. He was 20 years old, looked like a scared puppy, was drafted to be a long-term project, had played in a spread offense mostly from the shotgun, etc, etc. Peyton Manning, on the other hand, played 4 years in college, starting 45 games in college, grew up in a pro system, had been raised in the pro game with his father, was incredibly confident, and was not drafted to be a project. It was well known he was one of the most pro ready rookie QBs to come along in a long time. Even without knowing all of this, the coach should have seen that his young qb was not ready to start with his current skill set and the talent the team had that year. Again, it was his job to develop the kid to lead the team to success in the future.

What do you mean by "Smith wasn't forced to start?" You expected a pro football player to tell the coach not to put him in the game???? That is a career ending move.

My god this can go round and round, what aren't you getting, or are you just seeing things without even considering facts. No need to repeat myself, and make a long thread of it.

He wasn't forced to start......Tim Rattay started from game one....what else don't you get??

I think we are getting caught up on semantics here.He was forced to start when Rattay was traded away.He wasn't forced to start when Rattay was still here,but once Tim wore out his welcome Smith was forced to start.I think that is the point that was being made.

But how can you guys see that as FORCED to start, and not as an opportunity to start?? For one, Smith must have showed something in training camp for the coaches to decide to put him as the #2 QB, if he struggled and was having a hard time through camp don't you think the coaches would have put him as the #3 QB??

This is my thing, you people claim that he was forced to start and blame Nolan for it, but if I remember correctly, people on here are always so quick to point out that 2006 was his best year. Which it was, so wouldn't it be to look at the '05 season as positive in a way that it help Smith get experience, after all it did credit Smith with 2 wins in 2005....which I'm sure people will so quickly give him credit for.

I'll just say it was a bonehead move on Nolan's part to have Smith's first start against the friggin' Indianapolis Colts. I mean, if you are going to try to build confidence in your QB, it's probably not a good idea to start him against the best team in the league.

Also, the Hostler pick as OC was poor... period.