New Stadium Design: Fan or not?

It doesn't matter what design they come up with someone is always going to say it could be better.

location, location, location!

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

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Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

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how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

[ Edited by Shorteous on Jun 4, 2009 at 08:06:40 ]

I live in NYC and I think that is a grade A stadium.

Maybe one day I will be able to come see a 49ers game and enjoy it.

Originally posted by nekst:
The Seahawks have crowd noise and the Cardinals have the retractable roof. What do the 49ers have? A huge opening in the side of the stadium with a lot of luxury boxes? I guess we won't really know until the stadium is built...

The place was built for the fans attending the game to ensure the best possible experience.

You want stadium noise? Then scream when you're at the game. It doesn't take a special stadium design to have a loud crowd. If louder stadiums equalled success then the Seahawks should've been in...what? Four straight Super Bowls or so?

I've been to the current stadium and I was not a big fan of it. I can't wait to go to this one

I can dig it

I like the big entrances to the stadium especially when you look at the field. Now if we can get the statues of our H.O.F. players it would make it even better.

Originally posted by mayo63:
It doesn't matter what design they come up with someone is always going to say it could be better.

Yes, you are right -- but this doesn't mean that it can't be better.

Originally posted by Canadian49er:

You want stadium noise? Then scream when you're at the game. It doesn't take a special stadium design to have a loud crowd. If louder stadiums equalled success then the Seahawks should've been in...what? Four straight Super Bowls or so?

I think you are wrong about this. I was at the both the 2005 NFC divisional playoff game with the Seachickens/Redskins and the championship game with the Seachickens/Panthers, and if you think crowd noise didn't play a role in Seattle winning those games and going to the SB you are mistaken.

Look at their record since opening Quest in 2002. More opposing team false starts than any other stadium. They've had some good to great players during that span (and a good 49er coach - dammit) but some of that success is due to the stadium.

Originally posted by yoyo49:


Define more?

What is more?

Its one thing to think the stadium is ugly, but what is it missing that it needs in your opinion? Don't tell me a retractible roof because thats pointless in the bay area.

Sure, this is easy. More = an ownership 100% focused on winning, that puts an intelligent football organization in place based on a clear philosophy and plan, that hires proven, talented coaches that implement innovative systems, with the best talent evaluators who can acquire superior talent to play in that system, and those players themselves are 100% committed to teamwork, excellence and winning.

AND - that play in a showcase stadium commensurate and reflective of that philosophy of excellence. The best without compromise, that makes other fans envious and makes opposing players fear playing here.

Just unhappy that instead we get a design that is more airport concourse and hotel that happens to be football capable instead of football palace -- without ONE SINGLE INTERESTING OR TRUELY INSPIRATION ASPECT (and no, 'openess' and 'simpleness' do not qualify.)

Yes, we are stuck with this -- doesn't mean that it isn't worth expressing dissent or voicing an opinion. I am just sad for an opportunity lost, and likely not regained in my lifetime.

At least we will have a stadium we can call 'new'.

Originally posted by Xestenz:

Originally posted by yoyo49:


Define more?

What is more?

Its one thing to think the stadium is ugly, but what is it missing that it needs in your opinion? Don't tell me a retractible roof because thats pointless in the bay area.

Sure, this is easy. More = an ownership 100% focused on winning, that puts an intelligent football organization in place based on a clear philosophy and plan, that hires proven, talented coaches that implement innovative systems, with the best talent evaluators who can acquire superior talent to play in that system, and those players themselves are 100% committed to teamwork, excellence and winning.

AND - that play in a showcase stadium commensurate and reflective of that philosophy of excellence. The best without compromise, that makes other fans envious and makes opposing players fear playing here.

Just unhappy that instead we get a design that is more airport concourse and hotel that happens to be football capable instead of football palace -- without ONE SINGLE INTERESTING OR TRUELY INSPIRATION ASPECT (and no, 'openess' and 'simpleness' do not qualify.)

Yes, we are stuck with this -- doesn't mean that it isn't worth expressing dissent or voicing an opinion. I am just sad for an opportunity lost, and likely not regained in my lifetime.

At least we will have a stadium we can call 'new'.

How bout this for interesting or inspirational: It'll be the stadium that fits the most fans in the bottom rows at ground level. Something like 65% of the seats are practically sitting ontop of the field. How about being able to watch the actual game while standing in line at the concorse, how about it being a green stadium, and have you actually looked at some of the newly rendered photo's or videos... it's far from bland and boring.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

\\............................//
\\\\\...................../////
\\\\\\\\________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.\\................................................//
..\\\........................................./////
....\\\\\\\\\\\\\\________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

Originally posted by Xestenz:

Originally posted by yoyo49:


Define more?

What is more?

Its one thing to think the stadium is ugly, but what is it missing that it needs in your opinion? Don't tell me a retractible roof because thats pointless in the bay area.

Sure, this is easy. More = an ownership 100% focused on winning, that puts an intelligent football organization in place based on a clear philosophy and plan, that hires proven, talented coaches that implement innovative systems, with the best talent evaluators who can acquire superior talent to play in that system, and those players themselves are 100% committed to teamwork, excellence and winning.

AND - that play in a showcase stadium commensurate and reflective of that philosophy of excellence. The best without compromise, that makes other fans envious and makes opposing players fear playing here.

Just unhappy that instead we get a design that is more airport concourse and hotel that happens to be football capable instead of football palace -- without ONE SINGLE INTERESTING OR TRUELY INSPIRATION ASPECT (and no, 'openess' and 'simpleness' do not qualify.)

Yes, we are stuck with this -- doesn't mean that it isn't worth expressing dissent or voicing an opinion. I am just sad for an opportunity lost, and likely not regained in my lifetime.

At least we will have a stadium we can call 'new'.

Wow...

You are really becoming th Bane of the webzones Xestenz.

Sorry...couldn't resist.

With the money involved and the technology available I think it would be possible to generate better looking images of the stadium. The current pictures and fly-through look like the polygonal shaded renderings you see before the final photo-realistic shading is applied.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

\\............................//
\\\\\...................../////
\\\\\\\\________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.\\................................................//
..\\\........................................./////
....\\\\\\\\\\\\\\________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

This logic is so flawed I don't know where to begin. The stadium is designed with the largest lower bowl in the NFL, bringing as many fans as possible closer to the action with the best sightlines. Amazing how you want to turn this into a negative. Instead, you'd like the stadium to be designed with more "cheap" seats that are FARTHER from the action? Do you think Quest Field is loud because it's filled with cheap fans and cheap seats?

If, by your logic, there are so many "hardcore non cheese eating fans" just waiting to buy tickets, where have they been. We've had the lowest tickets prices in the NFL recently. And to classify all fans who can afford to pay a little extra for better seats as wine and cheese eaters is ridiculous. You know what makes for a loud, rowdy crowd? Wins. Yup, good ol' fashion winning.

The team has done exactly what you seem to be asking for: designed a stadium that will maximize crowd noise by bringing as many fans as possible as close to the field as possible. Sounds to me like your problem is not with the stadium, but with the fans themselves. I don't recall our "wine and cheese loving fans" being a problem when we were winning championships.

Originally posted by Marvin49:


Wow...

You are really becoming th Bane of the webzones Xestenz.

Sorry...couldn't resist.

No worries! I am a fan of the team, and just want the best for them, as I'm certain all of us do.

I'm just tired of people accepting anything less than excellence for this team.

I am actually thrilled they are building a new stadium -- something they have long deserved.