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QB Competition

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
I personally want a competition at EVERY spot on the roster.
It's just that we all know that Willis will win his competition (for instance) and we all know who would start today at just about every spot.

So ,from what we KNOW right now,Hill IS the starter and from what we have seen over the years Hill should remain the starter over Smith ,unless Smith is a totally different QB when he comes back (which I hope he is and I hope he beats out Hill and takes the Niners to 10 straight SB wins etc etc ,but I won't hold my breath for any of that because I don't want to die until I get to see the Niners play well again ).

I'm good with that. I'm just tired of seeing all the Smith bashing. We all know the reasons Smith is where he is at.

I personally see no need to trash the guy for issues beyond his control. It's not like he is getting into trouble off the field and giving his coaching staff a headache with poor attitude on it.

~Ceadder

Well put.

I just want to see us succeed. I really could careless who wins the QB competition. I PREFER Smith because of his age and arm strength (compared to Hill) but whatever happens happens. With Smith, we'd have a QB for another 10 years...with Hill...we have a QB for MAYBE 5. And does anyone really believe Hill (not saying Smith would) will lead us to the promise land???

Lets put it this way...I dont think Smith is crappy enough to lead us to a total losing season BUT I dont think Hill's good enough to get us into the playoffs or past the 1st round at best.

They are basically one in the same to me. But again...I hope one of them proves me wrong. I hope its Smith but Hill does deserve the nod for the 2009 season. The guy played his heart out and won us games.
  • Nes49
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Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
I personally want a competition at EVERY spot on the roster.
It's just that we all know that Willis will win his competition (for instance) and we all know who would start today at just about every spot.

So ,from what we KNOW right now,Hill IS the starter and from what we have seen over the years Hill should remain the starter over Smith ,unless Smith is a totally different QB when he comes back (which I hope he is and I hope he beats out Hill and takes the Niners to 10 straight SB wins etc etc ,but I won't hold my breath for any of that because I don't want to die until I get to see the Niners play well again ).

I'm good with that. I'm just tired of seeing all the Smith bashing. We all know the reasons Smith is where he is at.

I personally see no need to trash the guy for issues beyond his control. It's not like he is getting into trouble off the field and giving his coaching staff a headache with poor attitude on it.

~Ceadder

Well put.

I just want to see us succeed. I really could careless who wins the QB competition. I PREFER Smith because of his age and arm strength (compared to Hill) but whatever happens happens. With Smith, we'd have a QB for another 10 years...with Hill...we have a QB for MAYBE 5. And does anyone really believe Hill (not saying Smith would) will lead us to the promise land???

Lets put it this way...I dont think Smith is crappy enough to lead us to a total losing season BUT I dont think Hill's good enough to get us into the playoffs or past the 1st round at best.

They are basically one in the same to me. But again...I hope one of them proves me wrong. I hope its Smith but Hill does deserve the nod for the 2009 season. The guy played his heart out and won us games.

U & Me both faithful...plus, espn.com reports:

Quote:
Other teams had shown interest in Smith, who is only 24 years old and has four years of NFL experience. Those teams were willing to pay him more than his 49ers deal, according to a source, but Smith was insistent on making something work in San Francisco.

HE WANTS REDEMPTION! No amount of money can buy him that.
Originally posted by Nes49:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
I personally want a competition at EVERY spot on the roster.
It's just that we all know that Willis will win his competition (for instance) and we all know who would start today at just about every spot.

So ,from what we KNOW right now,Hill IS the starter and from what we have seen over the years Hill should remain the starter over Smith ,unless Smith is a totally different QB when he comes back (which I hope he is and I hope he beats out Hill and takes the Niners to 10 straight SB wins etc etc ,but I won't hold my breath for any of that because I don't want to die until I get to see the Niners play well again ).

I'm good with that. I'm just tired of seeing all the Smith bashing. We all know the reasons Smith is where he is at.

I personally see no need to trash the guy for issues beyond his control. It's not like he is getting into trouble off the field and giving his coaching staff a headache with poor attitude on it.

~Ceadder

Well put.

I just want to see us succeed. I really could careless who wins the QB competition. I PREFER Smith because of his age and arm strength (compared to Hill) but whatever happens happens. With Smith, we'd have a QB for another 10 years...with Hill...we have a QB for MAYBE 5. And does anyone really believe Hill (not saying Smith would) will lead us to the promise land???

Lets put it this way...I dont think Smith is crappy enough to lead us to a total losing season BUT I dont think Hill's good enough to get us into the playoffs or past the 1st round at best.

They are basically one in the same to me. But again...I hope one of them proves me wrong. I hope its Smith but Hill does deserve the nod for the 2009 season. The guy played his heart out and won us games.

U & Me both faithful...plus, espn.com reports:

Quote:
Other teams had shown interest in Smith, who is only 24 years old and has four years of NFL experience. Those teams were willing to pay him more than his 49ers deal, according to a source, but Smith was insistent on making something work in San Francisco.

HE WANTS REDEMPTION! No amount of money can buy him that.

Exactly. I mean some complained that he played with no fire, too passive, and all that crap. Now he DOES have a chip on his shoulder and wants to PROVE everyone that he's not a bust. Thats exactly the kind of fire that he needs to have. So finally the kid has his mind right, and no one hindering him so lets see what he got.
I still don't understand how a QB competition helps any team. Yeah, if our current QB was 34, winning us only 7 games and we had a youngster who could also win us 7 games, then you want to hope the young guy can win the competition.

I don't see what any team would get out of a QB competition if both QBs can play at least 5 years and one of the QBs has looked good in conditions that were not ideal whereas the other QB has looked average at best in ideal conditions.

I just don't see how that helps a team. A team must have a leader and the longer they are without a leader, the longer they will take to acquire an identity.

Identity. This is what has been running away from us every year. Why is that? It's because the team doesn't even know who their damn leader is until game 1 of the regular season and so far, it has been a player they don't have full confidence in. So, for once, please just start the QB that has shown the most confidence on Sundays. Start Shaun Hill. The team is behind him 100% and if it ends up being a mistake, the team as a whole accept the mistake rather than starting Smith, him sucking, and teammates mumbling that Hill should have started from day 1.


We need an identity and Hill gives us the best identity right now. Move forward.
From a PR standpoint this should be simple. You make Hill they guy. You hang your hat on his record. You point out that he delivered last year and that he led the team. If he fails then you can bring in Alex and nobody will care. Now if you go the other way then your just double dumb.

Plus has nobody congratulated the 49ers on a fantastic move today? Seriously. I have read several articles that said that Smith was offered more money to play elsewhere but he didn't. He chose to stay in SanFransisco under a restructured contract. Which, by the way, should have saved us a TON of money. More money than releasing him I am betting. Of course I don't know the specifics. I'm willing to bet my good money that restructuring Smith's contract saved us the most money possible. Plus we bagged what I think is a solid back up in Smith.

Now. Do you think Smith would do this KNOWING he was going to play second fiddle? I don't. The open door at the QB spot is a necessarry part of bringing Smith back at less money. If we had said...hey Alex we want you to come back and back up shaun hill for a few years while we draft another QB to replace him down the road. Sign here for a massive pay cut. I don't think so. The "potential" for smith to earn the starting job had to be a key piece of the negotiation.
Originally posted by VA49er:
From a PR standpoint this should be simple. You make Hill they guy. You hang your hat on his record. You point out that he delivered last year and that he led the team. If he fails then you can bring in Alex and nobody will care. Now if you go the other way then your just double dumb.

Plus has nobody congratulated the 49ers on a fantastic move today? Seriously. I have read several articles that said that Smith was offered more money to play elsewhere but he didn't. He chose to stay in SanFransisco under a restructured contract. Which, by the way, should have saved us a TON of money. More money than releasing him I am betting. Of course I don't know the specifics. I'm willing to bet my good money that restructuring Smith's contract saved us the most money possible. Plus we bagged what I think is a solid back up in Smith.

Now. Do you think Smith would do this KNOWING he was going to play second fiddle? I don't. The open door at the QB spot is a necessarry part of bringing Smith back at less money. If we had said...hey Alex we want you to come back and back up shaun hill for a few years while we draft another QB to replace him down the road. Sign here for a massive pay cut. I don't think so. The "potential" for smith to earn the starting job had to be a key piece of the negotiation.

LoL....your last paragraph seems to totally negate your first. So what are you suggesting, the 49ers should have/or have lied to Smith about competing for a starting job? It's not a dis, I just thought it was funny.


Side note: No matter what anyone thinks about Smiths skills as a QB you can't deny the kid is a class act...
I will say it again:


QB Competition = No Identity until midseason if the starting QB plays solid.

No QB Competition = Team taking off where we left last year with an identity.


In Singletary I trust as he has made some very good decisions in critical moments so far. One would believe he knows the importance of not jerking around a team and its leadership.
  • yoda76
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say it again:


QB Competition = No Identity until midseason if the starting QB plays solid.

No QB Competition = Team taking off where we left last year with an identity.


In Singletary I trust as he has made some very good decisions in critical moments so far. One would believe he knows the importance of not jerking around a team and its leadership.


I agree and disagree.

At the end of the 08 season the AZ Tardinals named Leinart as the starter going into training camp. But Warner outplayed him by so much in training camp and pre-season that they named Warner the starter............and look what happened.

Sing is just being honest, if Huard or Smith are lighting it up in training camp and Hill is struggling, it would be a terrible decision to stick with him as your starter just because you didn't want a QB competition.

May the best man win.....and usually the best man does.
Originally posted by Nes49:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
I personally want a competition at EVERY spot on the roster.
It's just that we all know that Willis will win his competition (for instance) and we all know who would start today at just about every spot.

So ,from what we KNOW right now,Hill IS the starter and from what we have seen over the years Hill should remain the starter over Smith ,unless Smith is a totally different QB when he comes back (which I hope he is and I hope he beats out Hill and takes the Niners to 10 straight SB wins etc etc ,but I won't hold my breath for any of that because I don't want to die until I get to see the Niners play well again ).

I'm good with that. I'm just tired of seeing all the Smith bashing. We all know the reasons Smith is where he is at.

I personally see no need to trash the guy for issues beyond his control. It's not like he is getting into trouble off the field and giving his coaching staff a headache with poor attitude on it.

~Ceadder

Well put.

I just want to see us succeed. I really could careless who wins the QB competition. I PREFER Smith because of his age and arm strength (compared to Hill) but whatever happens happens. With Smith, we'd have a QB for another 10 years...with Hill...we have a QB for MAYBE 5. And does anyone really believe Hill (not saying Smith would) will lead us to the promise land???

Lets put it this way...I dont think Smith is crappy enough to lead us to a total losing season BUT I dont think Hill's good enough to get us into the playoffs or past the 1st round at best.

They are basically one in the same to me. But again...I hope one of them proves me wrong. I hope its Smith but Hill does deserve the nod for the 2009 season. The guy played his heart out and won us games.

U & Me both faithful...plus, espn.com reports:

Quote:
Other teams had shown interest in Smith, who is only 24 years old and has four years of NFL experience. Those teams were willing to pay him more than his 49ers deal, according to a source, but Smith was insistent on making something work in San Francisco.

HE WANTS REDEMPTION! No amount of money can buy him that.

Thats good. All his comments and answers to questions regarding this whole resigning have been great. I like how he mentions that he has unfinished business and such, and how he just wants to compete. His language has definitely changed. He doesn't say things like, "Well uhh, u know, I'm just happy coach wants to give me a roster spot" or something soft.

He's saying things like....
Quote:

You know, I'm tired of watching, I'm tired of being in that training room and I'm ready to get back out there.

Does it feel like a fresh start to you?
It does feel good for me. There's definitely a different feeling around the facility with coach Singletary here, with some of the new people he brought in. It's kind of a fresh attitude. You know with the new contract coming in and kind of the fresh start to compete, it is kind of refreshing in a sense. I feel like I can start fresh, start over and try to become the player I want to be.

and...

Quote:
What have you learned over your first four seasons?
You know, the football side out of it -- I think I'm just much more mature mentally. Not to say I was immature. I think I've grown up a lot. As far as this business and as far as being focused. I think I really was focused when I first came out, but I think I just have a better oulook on it mentally, a better strength about it, about what I need to worry about and what I don't need to worry about. The things I need to focus on and what are the right things to focus on so to speak. So in essense I really feel like I'm in a better place. My life outside of football is a much better place. Your life right after college -- you're a student athlete and all of a sudden you do get some money and you're a homeowner and different things. A lot of those things can be distracting. I feel like I'm in a better place in that sense. Just really focused on my career and set some goals for myself and I'm really trying to achieve them.

Translation: Yes, when I got here initially, I was a poon. I've since washed m sandy vagina and now that douche bag Nolan isnt here, I feel like I have a shot at doing what I want to do. I acted like a scared little b*tch my first couple years here but now I just want to get on the field and play.

I'll take it.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say it again:


QB Competition = No Identity until midseason if the starting QB plays solid.

No QB Competition = Team taking off where we left last year with an identity.


In Singletary I trust as he has made some very good decisions in critical moments so far. One would believe he knows the importance of not jerking around a team and its leadership.

Your right, thats why there will be a competititon brotha. But we do have to be real about the situation. Despite many, a bunch of our fans are just band wagoneers, and we should be happy that upper management isnt taking that into account. So i mean lets take a look, concluding 06, many of us, as well as the team, were behind Smith. The beginning of 07 when he went 2-1, we were still behind smith. Then the injury in 08. The fans then turned to back JTO, then when he sucked hill came in again, and helped win us some games, then the team backed him. I mean our players will back whomever is leading them to wins. And if we are gonna go with that, dont just go with who's winning for the time being, which is Hill. Hill and Smith were both backed by fans, and players at one point in their career, so they deserve to COMPETE. And cool i'm with you saying let sing do his job, so if Sing feels that they should compete then sit back relax take a chill pill and go with it. Thats not too hard. He is the coach and knows best
  • indianajim
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by TOP_CAT:
Originally posted by solidg2000:


But didn't a healthy Smith lead us to a 2-1 record in 07

And didn't that same Smith beat out Hill at the QB position before Martz gave it to JTO


No !
Smith played really bad in those first two games and just went along for the ride.

Yeah cause 64% with an average of 7.4 vs. the Rams that year was really crappy.

And despite playing enh against Arizona (playcalling anyone?), leading a 4th quarter comeback with two winning TD passes that were both dropped is TERRIBLE.
[ Edited by indianajim on Mar 11, 2009 at 2:32 PM ]
  • indianajim
  • Info N/A
another bit on the competition.

Mike Martz is gone. His system was not predicated on seeing the field as you drop back. It was predicated on "Defense does A, You will throw to B." There were no "options" for Hill to see. He drops, sees the defense, boom throws the ball. Very clever system, and reasonably successful system. I don't think he'll have that luxury with Raye's offense, and we will be back to a guy who can't deliver his rainbows downfield with any success. Ten yard seam to Vernon? Fine. 20 yard deep out to anybody else? Smith.

Smith is going to wow the coaches with his instant knowledge of the system and renewed arm strength, and you're going to see a guy who spent an entire season learning how to read defenses under one of the best QB coaches ever in Mike Martz. THAT will be the difference maker.
Originally posted by indianajim:
another bit on the competition.

Mike Martz is gone. His system was not predicated on seeing the field as you drop back. It was predicated on "Defense does A, You will throw to B." There were no "options" for Hill to see. He drops, sees the defense, boom throws the ball. Very clever system, and reasonably successful system. I don't think he'll have that luxury with Raye's offense, and we will be back to a guy who can't deliver his rainbows downfield with any success. Ten yard seam to Vernon? Fine. 20 yard deep out to anybody else? Smith.

Smith is going to wow the coaches with his instant knowledge of the system and renewed arm strength, and you're going to see a guy who spent an entire season learning how to read defenses under one of the best QB coaches ever in Mike Martz. THAT will be the difference maker.

I hope Smith wows me and kicks my prognostications' ass but it just seem like it doesn't matter what system Shaun Hill plays in, he gets the job done.

I want to see Hill fail before we throw Smith out there. It will only help Smith to see how the new offense sets up and works on game days before he tries to work it himself.
I don't understand how anyone can be against having a QB competition. If we had a Peyton Manning, then I would surely agree. Fact is, we don't have a QB of that caliber or anywhere near it on the roster. What can be the harm in making sure the BEST QB is starting once the regular season begins?

If you all are so sure that Hill is better, then what are you afraid of by having competition? Hill will win anyway right? He'll just be pushed harder, which should make him play better.

I for one am not convinced that Hill is the best QB on the roster. I don't care what he did last year. I want the best chance to win THIS year. If that is Hill then so be it, but if it is Smith, I'm OK with that too. Lets let them duke it out and see who deserves the job.

Anyone who is against the competition and says Hill should just be given the job is simply afraid Smith will win the competition and that they will be 'wrong' about which QB was best.
Originally posted by MrAdrenaline:
I don't understand how anyone can be against having a QB competition. If we had a Peyton Manning, then I would surely agree. Fact is, we don't have a QB of that caliber or anywhere near it on the roster. What can be the harm in making sure the BEST QB is starting once the regular season begins?

If you all are so sure that Hill is better, then what are you afraid of by having competition? Hill will win anyway right? He'll just be pushed harder, which should make him play better.

I for one am not convinced that Hill is the best QB on the roster. I don't care what he did last year. I want the best chance to win THIS year. If that is Hill then so be it, but if it is Smith, I'm OK with that too. Lets let them duke it out and see who deserves the job.

Anyone who is against the competition and says Hill should just be given the job is simply afraid Smith will win the competition and that they will be 'wrong' about which QB was best.

My main reason is because this teams' main issue has been chemistry. They just can't seem to get out of their own way. They all seem to believe in Hill the most by their demeanor on Sundays so why not stick with it until it doesn't work? Yes, Smith didn't lose his job, he got injured, but the belief of the team seems more in Hill and a very solid chemistry can be started early in TC rather than in game 8 of the regular season.
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