3-4 or 4-3

The Niners imo have always been a 4 3 team in denial. When the 3 4 idea was announced years ago I knew they would fail and they did. They never had the tools in position on personnel and on the coaching staff to run it effectively. They have it now but it the pieces are in the wrong place. When they will wake up and realize this idk. Smith Franklin Soap Mcdonald then Brooks Willis Lawson and keep rotating.

b/c it's a pass-first league, i prefer a bigger density in the backfield than at the LOS.

I have been plenty outspoken on my feelings. We should be a 4-3 D. We have pure stud 4-3 LBs in Willis, Lawson, and now Bowman. We just have to keep an eye on our RE situation. Make sure we have the right guys there. Yes, give me a 4-3 Under D.

Assuming this is the off-season, predraft:

Franklin and Lawson both walk because of the contracts they want, Lawson is worth keeping if the team moved to a 4-3 but is being wasted in the current 3-4. If it was up to me I would resign Lawson if the team was moving to a 4-3. If he doesn't resign then Spikes would be a priority even though I would like Spikes to resign either way.

Base front 4

LDE- McDonald
DT- Jean-Francois
DT- Sopoaga
RDE- Smith

Oversized front 4

LDE- Jean-Francois
DT- Free agent or Rookie fatty
DT- Sopoaga
RDE- Smith

Undersized front 4

LDE- Haralson
DT- McDonald
DT- Smith
RDE- Brooks

4-3 Linebackers

SAM- Lawson/Spikes
MIKE- Willis
WILL- Bowman

If the 49ers moved to a 4-3 they would definitely need to add an athletic defensive end with size or an undersized defensive tackle with the athleticism to play end on occasion. Marcel Dareus would fit this role in my opinion.

nolanonesense nolanonesense nolanonesense nolanonesense

I don't see why this defense get's so much hate...

Last year we were top 5 in a bunch of categories, including sacks and points allowed.

Last year our offense had a total of 24 turnovers, we already have 16.

Last year, even though we were almost dead last in ypg., we finished 18th in scoring, compared to 30th so far...

Players like Justin Smith, Franklin, and even Willis aren't performing at the level they were at last year. They are obviously tired of bailing out this anemic offense, and I don't even think "the hill" prepared them for another long season.

Once this offense finds its QB and starts performing well on a consistent basis, this defense has the potential to be even better than last years, and that does say a lot.

Also, I would put a bigger blame on our backfield for our struggles on defense. Even though our front 7 has not been stellar, few nice things could be said about our DBs.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I don't see why this defense get's so much hate...

I mean no disrespect, but I really think you are burying your head in the sand. The stats this season are not horrific, but forget stats... just watching the games should indicate clearly to you that this defense is not playing nearly as well as they should. The personnel talent is there... the scheming and utilization is Jekyll + Hyde.

We have the players to throw a 4-3 on the field from time to time, I actually think we could get away with a 4-3 with Lawson and Brooks as edge rushers and Willis/Spikes/Bowman as our LB's ..that would be a nice package to use to try and get a pass rush going, Sopoaga and Smith would be decent DT's in a 4-3 package and provide some quickness, but not as a base defense, only in passing situations, but we would still have the size and speed to defend the run

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I don't see why this defense get's so much hate...

I mean no disrespect, but I really think you are burying your head in the sand. The stats this season are not horrific, but forget stats... just watching the games should indicate clearly to you that this defense is not playing nearly as well as they should. The personnel talent is there... the scheming and utilization is Jekyll + Hyde.

This is the same personnel from last year, and they were touted as a good, if not a great defense all across the league. No, it's not the Steelers defense, but few are. It's hard to stay focused mentally if your sitting on the sideline, and know that you have to go back in the game in 5 minutes. You don't get a chance to rest, or try and analyze that went wrong or good. And like I said before, they are just sick and tired of bailing out this anemic offense.

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I don't see why this defense get's so much hate...

I mean no disrespect, but I really think you are burying your head in the sand. The stats this season are not horrific, but forget stats... just watching the games should indicate clearly to you that this defense is not playing nearly as well as they should. The personnel talent is there... the scheming and utilization is Jekyll + Hyde.

This is the same personnel from last year, and they were touted as a good, if not a great defense all across the league. No, it's not the Steelers defense, but few are. It's hard to stay focused mentally if your sitting on the sideline, and know that you have to go back in the game in 5 minutes. You don't get a chance to rest, or try and analyze that went wrong or good. And like I said before, they are just sick and tired of bailing out this anemic offense.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Our time of possession is smack dab in the middle... 15th in the league.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I don't see why this defense get's so much hate...

I mean no disrespect, but I really think you are burying your head in the sand. The stats this season are not horrific, but forget stats... just watching the games should indicate clearly to you that this defense is not playing nearly as well as they should. The personnel talent is there... the scheming and utilization is Jekyll + Hyde.

This is the same personnel from last year, and they were touted as a good, if not a great defense all across the league. No, it's not the Steelers defense, but few are. It's hard to stay focused mentally if your sitting on the sideline, and know that you have to go back in the game in 5 minutes. You don't get a chance to rest, or try and analyze that went wrong or good. And like I said before, they are just sick and tired of bailing out this anemic offense.

Doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Our time of possession is smack dab in the middle... 15th in the league.

And how about that we are 23rd in TOs? or 22nd in YPG? On offense that is. That keeps the defense on the field too. And I think our TOP would be even worse if our defense wouldn't get 3 and outs.

I think the key of this change would be that it puts our best player in the best position to be successful in Willis. Look at Ray Lewis for a year or two before the Ravens got Ngata, people were keying in on him the same way as Willis, or you could compare to Urlacher when Tommie Harris kept being hurt.

Get people off of Willis and let him use his speed/strength combination to make plays. I think Bowman/Lawson would be a great supporting cast for the future and would finish out the LBing core very nicely.

The key for this change would be a pass-rusher who can push at the LOS. Smith is going to be a bull-rushing RE who sets the edge and holds ground or penetrates on running plays. Soap, RJF, and Franklin would give us good play at the DT level. I just don't know if Haralson/Brooks/Laboy would make me feel confident that they can get to the QB consistantly. This would have to be addressed in my opinion if we made this move.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by posayshoohaa:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
justin smith is no 4-3 end!
he's a 4-3 dt.
He is not the dominating passrusher that you need in your end position.

He played end for the Bengals and played it well. They were playing 4-3 weren't they?

He is, what? 285? Too small for a tackle.

he's a far far far faaaaaaaaaaar more effective 3-4 DE than 4-3 DE ..

that 4-3 dline would be pitiful though .. i'd keep Franklin on the nose with RJF (Sopoaga would be cut because he blows) backing him up and Justin Smith and Ray McDonald would be the under tackle while Brooks Laboy and Haralson would probably be the undersized DEs who would get pushed around against the run and the linebackers would be Willis obviously in the middle Lawson on the strong side and probably Bowman on the weakside.

in otherwords.. I'd stick with the 3-4.

why on earth...wtf...huh?

So your 4-3 would look like this

Laboy, Smith, Franklin, McDonald, Brooks


Last I checked that is more than 4 lineman. IF the 49ers went back to a 4-3 it would probably be similar to this

Clements----------------Smith, RFJ, RFJ, Soap, McDonald--------------Spencer
---------------------------Brooks ------------Willis----------------Lawson
--------------------------------------Mays-------------Goldson

Fixed. If we go back to a 4-3 it wont be this year. Thus, I dont expect Frank to be here.

That line up looks sick though

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by posayshoohaa:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
justin smith is no 4-3 end!
he's a 4-3 dt.
He is not the dominating passrusher that you need in your end position.

He played end for the Bengals and played it well. They were playing 4-3 weren't they?

He is, what? 285? Too small for a tackle.

he's a far far far faaaaaaaaaaar more effective 3-4 DE than 4-3 DE ..

that 4-3 dline would be pitiful though .. i'd keep Franklin on the nose with RJF (Sopoaga would be cut because he blows) backing him up and Justin Smith and Ray McDonald would be the under tackle while Brooks Laboy and Haralson would probably be the undersized DEs who would get pushed around against the run and the linebackers would be Willis obviously in the middle Lawson on the strong side and probably Bowman on the weakside.

in otherwords.. I'd stick with the 3-4.

why on earth...wtf...huh?

So your 4-3 would look like this

Laboy, Smith, Franklin, McDonald, Brooks


Last I checked that is more than 4 lineman. IF the 49ers went back to a 4-3 it would probably be similar to this

Clements----------------Smith, RFJ, RFJ, Soap, McDonald--------------Spencer
---------------------------Brooks ------------Willis----------------Lawson
--------------------------------------Mays-------------Goldson

Fixed. If we go back to a 4-3 it wont be this year. Thus, I dont expect Frank to be here.

That line up looks sick though

You have RJF on there twice. But I agree with you guys that if we switch to a 4-3 than chances are he might not be back but I think he could play DT in the 4-3. If he does go look for a tender to be placed on him to atleast try and get something out of him. Its also clear that this is Spikes last year and Brooks IMO would CHALLENGE Bowman at the OLB spot. Brooks would be more of a liability in pass coverage and I feel Bowman would give us the best chance with the 4-3 lineup.

I say with the first round pick we draft a STUD DE to hopefully beat out McDonald for the DE spot if not rotate in a lot for Smith/McDonald. Second round we draft best available corner to start at nickel right away, James/T. Brown have been far too inconsistant and they can battle it out for #4 & #5 CB spots to provide depth. Later round picks can fill in for depth.

Starting DL - Smith-Franklin/RJF-Sopo-*ROOKIE*/*Upper Scale F/A*.
Depth - RJF-McDonald-Free Agent(s)/Rookie(s) depending on how things pan out.
Situational rushers on PASSING downs ONLY- Haralson-Brooks.
NOTE**-If we draft a good DE OR get a good DE in F/A and he ends up starting,McDonald goes to bench to rotate in or vise versa.

TOP DE Prospects '11 that could start from day #1 - Adrian Clayborn(Iowa)/Allen Bailey(The U)/Cameron Hayward(Ohio ST.)/Robert Quinn(UNC)/Greg Romeus(PIT).

Just think that it makes more sense for us.

Originally posted by backontop:


why on earth...wtf...huh?

So your 4-3 would look like this

Laboy, Smith, Franklin, McDonald, Brooks


Last I checked that is more than 4 lineman. IF the 49ers went back to a 4-3 it would probably be similar to this

Clements----------------Smith, Franklin, RFJ(Soap), McDonald--------------Spencer
---------------------------Brooks ------------Willis----------------Lawson
--------------------------------------Mays-------------Goldson

Uhh.. what? I said Smith and McDonald would be the UTs as in Smith would start and McDonald would be his back up. I can't believe anyone would actually confuse that for me saying we'd have a 5 man DL.

To be clear this is how my starters would look..

LaBoy-Franklin-Smith-Haralson

..and the back ups..

Brooks-RJF-McDonald-Brooks

..And not to confuse anyone who'd think that we have 2 Brooks or he'd play both DEs at the same time I put him at both ends because he'd rotate with LaBoy and Haralson because we don't have a true every down 4-3 DE on this team.