3-4 or 4-3

i hope we get george selvie in next year's draft. him with lawson would be sweet.

doc, I disagree.

Nolan left. Manusky ran the 3-4. The defense played very well. That defensive turn around strongly indicates that we are better off running the 3-4. The coaching staff has decided to run the 3-4, and not the 4-3. I think that choice was the right choice.

I do not think that we need to draft starters at either NT or DE. Therefore, I do not think we “are left with 3 different #1 needs, with only one pick.”

A. Franklin was a big part of the defensive turn around. He will be, and should be, our starter at nose tackle next year. I want us to draft a nose tackle, but not as a starter. There are some choices that we will have. Here are three:

Ron Brace 6-2 335 Boston College
D. Scott 6-3 318 Clemson
S. Lee Hill 6-3 330 Stillman

Justin Smith will be one starter at DE. Justin Smith is an very good DE. The other starter at DE will be either Demetric Evans, K. Balmer, or I. Sopoaga or some combination of the three.

I do not see DE as a major concern for this year. Spending a late round pick on a DE might be prudent. I suggest:

E. Pedescleaux 6-6 305 Northern Iowa

We need to find a good right tackle and a good OLB with our first two picks. Luckily, there are some good possibilities at both OLB and OT in the first and the second rounds.

doc, sometimes, I think you have been working much too hard on being negative since the demise of Martz.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninefan56:

Originally posted by buck:
OUR 3-4 DEFENSE AS OF TODAY (March 22, 2009)

I have 17 defense players who are locks or near locks to make the
team. I do not count Alan Rossum as a defensive back.

We could carry 23 to 25 defensive players.

There is clearly room for change.


DEFENSIVE LINE

1.Smith, Justin DE 6'4" 285 9
2. Balmer, Kentwan DE 6'5" 315 2
3. Evans, Demetric DE 6'4" 287 8
McDonald, Ray DE 6'3" 290 3

4. Franklin, Aubrayo NT 6'1" 317 7
5. Sopoaga, Isaac NT 6'2" 330 6

Franklin is in the last year of his contract.
Ray McDonald is injured.

Ray McDonald could be cut or assigned to IR.

Ideally, Balmer wins the DE position and Sopoaga
shows that he can play NT.

In the draft, we should pick up a nose tackle.

LINEBACKERS

6. Haralson, Parys OLB 6'0" 255 4
7. Lawson, Manny OLB 6'5" 240 4
8. Washington, Mark OLB 6'3" 250 1

Moore, Jay OLB 6'4" 256 2

9. Willis, Patrick ILB 6'1" 240 3
10. Spikes, Takeo ILB 6'2" 242 12

Ulbrich, Jeff ILB 6'0" 240 10
Brooks, Ahmad LB 6'3" 259 4
Roland, Justin ILB 5'11" 242 1

Haralson, Lawson, Willis, and Spikes will be the starters.
Mark Washington should make the squad.

Ulbrich , Brooks, Moore, and Roland, are on the bubble.
Brooks is the big question mark.

Need at least one more outside linebacker and maybe one ILB
in the draft.

DEFENSIVE BACKS

11. Harris, Walt CB 5'11" 196 14
12. Clements, Nate CB 6'0" 205 9
13. Brown, Tarell CB 5'10" 193 3

Spencer, Shawntae CB 6'1" 190 6
Hudson, Marcus CB 6'2" 200 4

14. Goldson, Dashon FS 6'2" 200 3
15. Smith, Reggie FS 6'1" 200 2

16. Lewis, Michael SS 6'1" 222 8
17. Williams, Jimmy SS 6'3" 212 2

Baker, Lewis SS 6'3" 203 0

Spencer, Hudson, and Baker are on the bubble.


OVERALL

The change from Nolan’s hybrid to a standard 3-4 will entail a
reduction in the number of defensive backs that we carry
and a corresponding increase in the number of linebackers.

It looks to me like we need another big DE and a NT for the line. We need at least 4 LBs out of our bubble group or out of the draft. I hope E. Brown and Brinkley are two of the four. It looks like we could us another CB or two and a safety. So that is nine players out of the bubble group and the draft.

True...we have players who can fill positions but not many dominant players. We need serious upgrades at NT and LDE. We need more beef, no question. This may be the first year that Haralson takes every snap in a pure 3-4. Can he play all year? What happened to Roderick Green? This will also be the first year Lawson may play all year in a 3-4. He's 250 pounds now. Are our OLB's going to wear down? We don't rush the ILB's at all. Pass rush? CB's have been average to below-average and are older. Michael Lewis is nothing more then an extra LB; not a play-maker, poor in coverage and Goldson is a new starter and will take his lumps this year.

That said, we do have a lot of chemistry and now a defense with an identity. Manusky will get a full year now to make his mark and perhaps he'll tailor it to more of a SD-style 3-4. Willis is becoming the captain and both Spikes and Smith will have a full training camp to work with and get ready for the season. We already have more depth and we haven't had the draft yet. There doesn't appear to be any more "hybrid" positions. We have some players in their contract years.

Excellent point. Crucial even. A defense with an identity, and one that showed improvement over the last eight games last season. With a definitive scheme, defensive weaknesses are more easily identified and addressed (i.e., Roman). With a definitive scheme, the strengths of the personnel can be more easily identified and taken advantage of, and the weaknesses of the personnel can be addressed.

Singletary has mentioned his excitement about getting started, and has indicated his intention of working harder than other teams. That means getting the most out of current guys on the team. His "boot camp" style minicamp has set a tone, and should pay off in both physical play and mental toughness. What a great way to start, IMHO.

Despite my earlier skepticism, I have to say I'm impressed with Singletary so far. It will be interesting to see who among the players listed by Buck as being on the bubble, will make the team, and who will be the stragglers as Singletary moves this team forward.

Originally posted by buck:
doc, I disagree.

Nolan left. Manusky ran the 3-4. The defense played very well. That defensive turn around strongly indicates that we are better off running the 3-4. The coaching staff has decided to run the 3-4, and not the 4-3. I think that choice was the right choice.

I do not think that we need to draft starters at either NT or DE. Therefore, I do not think we “are left with 3 different #1 needs, with only one pick.”

A. Franklin was a big part of the defensive turn around. He will be, and should be, our starter at nose tackle next year. I want us to draft a nose tackle, but not as a starter. There are some choices that we will have. Here are three:

Ron Brace 6-2 335 Boston College
D. Scott 6-3 318 Clemson
S. Lee Hill 6-3 330 Stillman

Justin Smith will be one starter at DE. Justin Smith is an very good DE. The other starter at DE will be either Demetric Evans, K. Balmer, or I. Sopoaga or some combination of the three.

I do not see DE as a major concern for this year. Spending a late round pick on a DE might be prudent. I suggest:

E. Pedescleaux 6-6 305 Northern Iowa

We need to find a good right tackle and a good OLB with our first two picks. Luckily, there are some good possibilities at both OLB and OT in the first and the second rounds.

doc, sometimes, I think you have been working much too hard on being negative since the demise of Martz.

I agree. Unless Raji falls to #10 I'll be shocked if we pick a NT or DE on day one.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems to fit better here........

I don't think a TOP 10 D is a stretch, but we'll need some guys to step up.

FS- Goldson. We are all excited about seeing Goldson starting over Roman. However, he hasn't really proved himself yet. If you follow the Matt blogs, then you know the guy is a ballhawk in PRACTICE. This doesn't mean he'll translate into a legit starting FS. Another issue is the radio receiver. Can he handle the responsibility of being the field general in his first year as a starter??

OLB- Lawson. Ahhh, the pass rusher that never was. IMO, this guy has NEVER shown any ability to rush the passer in the pros. Sounds like he has added muscle to his legs in an attempt to become more explosive. This sounds good, but we'll have to wait and see if it translates into blowing up OTs to get at the QB. Lawson mentioned that he is over his mental issues from his knee injury, this could have held him back last season. Everyone is expecting big things from Lawson this season.

DE- Balmer. Our first round pick from last season didn't get much playing time. Actually, I think he had more kick returns than sacks.. Not good when you are a defensive lineman. To be fair though, he didn't see alot of snaps on defense. That should change this year though. With Soap moving back inside, Balmer will be competing with new comer Evans for a starting role. And with Sing being MUM about RayMac's knee injury/surgery, the D might NEED Balmer more than originally thought.


IMO, these guys will play a big part in our success this season. We already know what can expect from guys like Willis, TKO, Smith, Nate, and Lewis. Sing/Manusky need Goldson, Lawson, and Balmer to step up this season. If they don't, our D will NOT be any better than last season.


I was thinking about throwing in Brown or Spencer to the "step up" list, but decided against it. Since I brought it up though, we do need a one of those guys to step up and take Harris' starting spot away.

Anybody else have a different opinion on which players NEED to step it up???

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Anybody else have a different opinion on which players NEED to step it up???

How about whoever the hell our NT is going to be, whether it's Soap, Franklin or whoever we end up starting. That person definitely needs to step up.

Originally posted by AKfanster:
I posted this in another thread, but it seems to fit better here........

I don't think a TOP 10 D is a stretch, but we'll need some guys to step up.

FS- Goldson. We are all excited about seeing Goldson starting over Roman. However, he hasn't really proved himself yet. If you follow the Matt blogs, then you know the guy is a ballhawk in PRACTICE. This doesn't mean he'll translate into a legit starting FS. Another issue is the radio receiver. Can he handle the responsibility of being the field general in his first year as a starter??

OLB- Lawson. Ahhh, the pass rusher that never was. IMO, this guy has NEVER shown any ability to rush the passer in the pros. Sounds like he has added muscle to his legs in an attempt to become more explosive. This sounds good, but we'll have to wait and see if it translates into blowing up OTs to get at the QB. Lawson mentioned that he is over his mental issues from his knee injury, this could have held him back last season. Everyone is expecting big things from Lawson this season.

DE- Balmer. Our first round pick from last season didn't get much playing time. Actually, I think he had more kick returns than sacks.. Not good when you are a defensive lineman. To be fair though, he didn't see alot of snaps on defense. That should change this year though. With Soap moving back inside, Balmer will be competing with new comer Evans for a starting role. And with Sing being MUM about RayMac's knee injury/surgery, the D might NEED Balmer more than originally thought.


IMO, these guys will play a big part in our success this season. We already know what can expect from guys like Willis, TKO, Smith, Nate, and Lewis. Sing/Manusky need Goldson, Lawson, and Balmer to step up this season. If they don't, our D will NOT be any better than last season.


I was thinking about throwing in Brown or Spencer to the "step up" list, but decided against it. Since I brought it up though, we do need a one of those guys to step up and take Harris' starting spot away.

Anybody else have a different opinion on which players NEED to step it up???

I think Brown is definitely on the ready to go list. It is not a good sign that Spencer is already hurt, or not healed from last year. So Strickland here we come. Brooks is another one that either needs to get with it or leave so that we have a clear picture.

So with that said it will be Clements, Harris/Brown, Lewis, and Goldson as the starting backfield. Lawson, Willis, Spikes, Haralson as the starting LBs. Soap, Franklin, Smith as the Dline. That team will be an improvement over last year with Goldson at FS, Healed Lawson, and Haralson more on the field. With our new pass rush specialist coach hopefullly the troops will get better.

I hope we get another pass rushing OLB, a NT, and a DE. We also need another TED to back up Spikes depending upon whether Washington will help us. That is at least four players we need in the draft. Another CB wouldn't hurt either. So five out of nine picks is a lot and I hope that they are good picks as well.

Originally posted by AKfanster:
I posted this in another thread, but it seems to fit better here........

I don't think a TOP 10 D is a stretch, but we'll need some guys to step up.

FS- Goldson. We are all excited about seeing Goldson starting over Roman. However, he hasn't really proved himself yet. If you follow the Matt blogs, then you know the guy is a ballhawk in PRACTICE. This doesn't mean he'll translate into a legit starting FS. Another issue is the radio receiver. Can he handle the responsibility of being the field general in his first year as a starter??

OLB- Lawson. Ahhh, the pass rusher that never was. IMO, this guy has NEVER shown any ability to rush the passer in the pros. Sounds like he has added muscle to his legs in an attempt to become more explosive. This sounds good, but we'll have to wait and see if it translates into blowing up OTs to get at the QB. Lawson mentioned that he is over his mental issues from his knee injury, this could have held him back last season. Everyone is expecting big things from Lawson this season.

DE- Balmer. Our first round pick from last season didn't get much playing time. Actually, I think he had more kick returns than sacks.. Not good when you are a defensive lineman. To be fair though, he didn't see alot of snaps on defense. That should change this year though. With Soap moving back inside, Balmer will be competing with new comer Evans for a starting role. And with Sing being MUM about RayMac's knee injury/surgery, the D might NEED Balmer more than originally thought.


IMO, these guys will play a big part in our success this season. We already know what can expect from guys like Willis, TKO, Smith, Nate, and Lewis. Sing/Manusky need Goldson, Lawson, and Balmer to step up this season. If they don't, our D will NOT be any better than last season.


I was thinking about throwing in Brown or Spencer to the "step up" list, but decided against it. Since I brought it up though, we do need a one of those guys to step up and take Harris' starting spot away.

Anybody else have a different opinion on which players NEED to step it up???

I agree with you 100% on the guys who need to step up but I think Walt Harris is still a really good CB in coverage. He hasn't lost a step yet. He was the guy blocking for Willis on that huge INT returned for a TD last year, and Walt was out in front of Willis the whole way. He did great vs the guys like Fitz/Boldin, Coles/Cotchery, and he is probably better than Nate as far as pure covering ability goes. Nate's an all around better CB, one of the best in the league because of his physicality and he's good in run support, but if your reason for Walt to be replaced is he's too slow now I disagree.

I think if 1 of Balmer/Soap step up, we'll be ok on the DL because Evans can play that DE spot opposite JSmith. But at the same time, we need to really help out our DL, specifically the NT spot, in the draft. I still like Raji at #10.

This is something I've been trying to get some people to look at...Whenever we suggest we " get 2 more LB's" or "can never hae too many CB's-let's draft another CB"--We have to look at the structure and numbers on that side of the ball and make decisions accordingly...When we look to add players, you have to look at who you're gonna cut or we go short somewhere else.

Buck, there is no question that i was absolutely dead wrong about martz, and he really hurt us last season. If he had just acknowledged the fact our OL couldn't block for more than a 3 step drop, he might have still had a job here. In the end, he tried to force his system on an O that couldn't pass block for his playcalls. To all the many who thot martz was a bad choice: you were right and i was really, really, wrong.

As for the D this yr, you will note that i allowed for the fact that our D scheme and D sets (not to mention poor fundamentals, eg tackling), may very well have been the reason our D looked so bad first half season, and did improve after noln's departure. My question was and still is, did we just draft, trade, and FA poorly, or was the problem noln and his coaching? With so many guys on D not playing well, it very possibly could have been the D set and D calls that were the culprits, not the players themselves...at least, i HOPE that is the case. If this is truly the situation, then by virtue of playing one D set well, instead of 3 D sets(3-4 ,4-3, hybrid) poorly, then we have the possibility of making a quantum leap forward this yr, esp on D.

Even good players can look bad if coaching philosophy, or D set decisions are poor. My hope is that was the case, and guys like soap, balmer, aubray, manny, were held back by D sets and philosophy that didn't fit their skills. The other possibility, and it is a good one, is that noln's multiple D sets were the problem because the defensive players truly didn't know what to do in the multiple base sets. For certain, one set, in this case the 3-4, HAS to be easier for everybody to get onto the same page...something that was sorely lacking last yr. Just staying with one D set may be the key to what we needed last yr. Man, i sure hope so. If that is the case, maybe we don't have to have our #1 pick be LDE or NT...but i agree, you named some good choices in later rds.

Altho i was a long time, huge martz fan, there is no question he set our O back, or it was a combination of martz/noln, both thankfully, now gone. Our new OC is a huge question mark, BUT, bigMike likes him...and he probably knows him a lot better than anyone else around these parts. On O we obviously need that RT, but i hope we don't go with our current interviewee. I still see RT as the #1 pick.

Changing the passing O from deep drops to quick slants and outs seemed like a no-brainer last yr. This yr it still seems that way, and hopefully we do it. If our OC wants to concentrate on the running game, we still need that RT, but we fixed the mistake of booting Moran.

Buck, as for being negative, i would say i am more hopeful, but realize there are just a ton of "ifs". Last yr i thot i had a good fix on this team. i didn't. This yr i have no idea what to expect, but with the removal of noln & martz, we just have to be a better team. If this simply was a case of awful coaching, both HC and OC, and a DC carrying out noln's will, then we could be immensely more successful this yr.

One thing for sure: NT and LDE have to produce and produce well this yr. LBs...we have 3 solid ones, and hopefully a decent 4th. DBs are hopefully ready, and it will be interesting to see how Reggie comes around. TBrown, Dashon, all are part of guys we have to have come thru for us. Basically i am a simple person. Doing simple things, but doing them very well , can be a whole lot better than doing multiple things, but none of them well. That's where i am with the 49ers, and i am hopeful that the change at the top will allow the players to show us their true potential.

Originally posted by Carney16:
Cant wait for september!

that's what I'm talking about

Originally posted by PFKMan23:

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Anybody else have a different opinion on which players NEED to step it up???

How about whoever the hell our NT is going to be, whether it's Soap, Franklin or whoever we end up starting. That person definitely needs to step up.

Franklin did alright after Nolan left last season. The change from 2-gap responsibility to 1-gap for Franklin seemed to help him alot. We could still do better, but Franklin was decent in the 2nd half last season. Also, I think this is a contract year for him.....

Hey, did I not get the memo on Ray McDonald? I didn't know he was injured still

Originally posted by bigwads:
Hey, did I not get the memo on Ray McDonald? I didn't know he was injured still

Hey, don't feel bad. I do not think any of us knew about his injury until the mini-camp, and if I remember correctly which I seldom do it was towards the end of the camp.

If we cant get any pass rush in a 3-4, lets say we switch to a 4-3. would this work:

justin smith and parys haralson at end, ray mcdonald and kentwan balmer at dt. im not sure if ray mac can even play 4-3 dt, but at 290 he seems big enough and hes quick. what do you guys think?