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Poll: Like or Dislike Players Protesting During the National Anthem?

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Poll: Like or Dislike Players Protesting During the National Anthem?

  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,668
A couple of thoughts:

- We must be careful in considering a question like this that we do not paint with an unduly wide brush no matter the side of the issue we may prefer.

While it is certainly true that we need better accountability, even reform of our law enforcement in some areas, in other areas LEOs act properly. Unfortunately, the media spends all its time on the first and rarely recognizes the latter. So while that is never to excuse reprehensible actions, it does require reasonable people to be balanced in their approach and paint the point with a fine brush that goes where it needs to go. That has not happened, and as a result, the cause of reform has been set back due to a pushback by those who have always performed well. It is just human nature that when we are unjustly accused that we resist. The result has been that many of the very people who could have been influential in enacting reform have been turned off by the "wide brush" comments of many. Such was the case in the first two weeks of Kaepernick's protest. His initial comments were poorly thought out, poorly expressed, even juvenile in their development. To his credit, he began to listen to wiser voices and became more realistic and mature in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, by the time he began to listen to people other than Nessa, he had already turned off many of the very people who could effect change at the core level. Such is the case when we "paint with a wide brush."

- It is sometimes better that we not do something even though it might be allowable.

Though the Constitution clearly allows peaceful protest, how and when we do that will often impact the success of the protest. In this case, it is clear that many people were turned off by the kneeling during the anthem. Now, we can discuss whether kneeling is appropriate or not, however, it is undeniable that it is considered an offense by many who would otherwise recognize and be active in the cause of needed reform.

Let me focus on the military component: It is true that there has been support on both sides of the matter, however, the need for reform should not have split that demographic. The fact that it did points to the error in choosing the playing of the anthem as the time to protest.

Military and former military personnel are a very influential voice in America, like it or not. While we can justifiably question the efficacy of US involvement in military action, that in no way should be used to denigrate the emotional and physical sacrifice those people have made. In the eyes of a majority of the country, those people are held in high esteem and anything that diminishes their work is going to result in pushback. Such is the case with kneeling during the anthem.

Yes, kneeling appears to be protected under the 1st Amendment, however, as has been shown, it has not achieved the focus that is needed. Pro athletes have an incredible platform on which to stand. If the union, or even a small group of players had gotten together in a publicized news conference, with the support of various segments of society, it is undeniable that they could have had an impact without the form of the protest antagonizing many of the most important voices and forces of change that would be necessary to bring about that change. As it stands now, all the focus is on the form of protest with little or no coverage of the many players around the league who have given generously of their time and money to make a difference in community. That is sad.

Just my thoughts...
[ Edited by dj43 on Sep 27, 2017 at 11:36 AM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
A couple of thoughts:

- We must be careful in considering a question like this that we do not paint with an unduly wide brush no matter the side of the issue we may prefer.

While it is certainly true that we need better accountability, even reform of our law enforcement in some areas, in other areas LEOs act properly. Unfortunately, the media spends all its time on the first and rarely recognizes the latter. So while that is never to excuse reprehensible actions, it does require reasonable people to be balanced in their approach and paint the point with a fine brush that goes where it needs to go. That has not happened, and as a result, the cause of reform has been set back due to a pushback by those who have always performed well. It is just human nature that when we are unjustly accused that we resist. The result has been that many of the very people who could have been influential in enacting reform have been turned off by the "wide brush" comments of many. Such was the case in the first two weeks of Kaepernick's protest. His initial comments were poorly thought out, poorly expressed, even juvenile in their development. To his credit, he began to listen to wiser voices and became more realistic and mature in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, by the time he began to listen to people other than Nessa, he had already turned off many of the very people who could effect change at the core level. Such is the case when we "paint with a wide brush."

- It is sometimes better that we not do something even though it might be allowable.

Though the Constitution clearly allows peaceful protest, how and when we do that will often impact the success of the protest. In this case, it is clear that many people were turned off by the kneeling during the anthem. Now, we can discuss whether kneeling is appropriate or not, however, it is undeniable that it is considered an offense by many who would otherwise recognize and be active in the cause of needed reform.

Let me focus on the military component: It is true that there has been supported on both sides of the matter, however, the need for reform should not have split that demographic. The fact that it did points to the error in choosing the playing of the anthem as the time to protest.

Military and former military personnel are a very influential voice in America, like it or not. While we can justifiably question the efficacy of US involvement in military action, that in no way should be used to denigrate the emotional and physical sacrifice those people have made. In the eyes of a majority of the country, those people are held in high esteem and anything that diminishes their work is going to result in pushback. Such is the case with kneeling during the anthem.

Yes, kneeling appears to be protected under the 1st Amendment, however, as has been shown, it has not achieved the focus that is needed. Pro athletes have an incredible platform on which to stand. If the union, or even a small group of players had gotten together in a publicized news conference, with the support of various segments of society, it is undeniable that they could have had an impact without the form of the protest antagonizing many of the most important voices and forces of change that would be necessary to bring about that change. As it stands now, all the focus is on the form of protest with little or no coverage of the many players around the league who have given generously of their time and money to make a difference in community. That is sad.

Just my thoughts...

No, the kneeling protests are not protected by the First Amendment, "the state" is not abridging anyone's speech. The NFL as a private employer is allowing it as is their choice, just as it is their choice to limit speech which they do all the time, same as countless other employers who place limits on the speech of their employees.
.I personally don't care for it but whatever, I can understand their issue.However, don't you think it's already spreading onto the field with statements like 2016 Kaps raised fist TD celebration spreading to Michael Bennets raised fist after a sack? http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/michael-bennett-sack-raised-fist-49ers-anthem-protest-kaepernick-nfl Doesn't really bother me but it's to make a point. I get that they can point to heaven and it's not an issue but they aren't protesting before about heaven
But like an awards show, I watch to see who wins, not their personal message.

But look at it in another light..... I'd feel the same way about any of the following.
What if Drew Brees started kneeling to protest the abortion of 51,888,303 million unborn babies since 1970?
What if Eli Manning started kneeling to protest the 2.7 million cats and dogs euthanized in Animal shelters yearly? (not that it's equal to Kaps issue)
Or Joe Schmo thinks the KKK gets a bad rap and starts kneeling and then after tackling a black player gives a Nazi salute in retaliation to the raised fist?

Eventually, everyone's going to be kneeling and protesting in separate groups all over the field for their cause and it's going to get out of hand.
For goodness sakes, they are barely even allowed to celebrate a touchdown in the stadiums but they want to protest there?

They are big celebrities in their regions. In my opinion, a press conference or interview would not be hard to schedule and could get their message across even better. Or if they are truly not self-seeking, take out commercial time during a game. I know $500,000 for 30 sec is a lot of money but where your heart is, there your treasure is. (Kap proves it's not just publicity seeking by his financial actions) Start a pool with like-minded guys and buy some time. We're not talking about minimum wage workers here
Just my opinion
Has anyone noticed that DirecTV is actually giving NFL Sunday Ticket refunds due to the complaints about last weeks NFL players and teams protest in response to Trump's statement?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-directv-refund-nfl-protests-20170927-story.html
[ Edited by Sourball on Sep 27, 2017 at 11:59 AM ]
Originally posted by Sourball:
Has anyone noticed that DirecTV is actually giving NFL Sunday Ticket refunds due to the complaints about last weeks NFL players and teams protest in response to Trump's statement?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-directv-refund-nfl-protests-20170927-story.html

$280.
  • Jiks
  • Member
  • Posts: 29,220
I just don't see how intentionally pissing people off is viewed as a helpful cause. I disagree with it but I'm not going to lose any sleep over guys that think kneeling is spreading knowledge.
I believe the players have a right to protest racial inequality...the President's remarks seem to have galvanized much of the NFL. What started out as Kaepernick's lonely protest has mushroomed into something much bigger. It's an issue that needs to be heard, discussed and develop some solutions for...so I support that.
Option D!!! f**k Donald Trump that son of a b***h!! For stirring this s**t up... IDGAF
  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,668
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by dj43:
A couple of thoughts:

- We must be careful in considering a question like this that we do not paint with an unduly wide brush no matter the side of the issue we may prefer.

While it is certainly true that we need better accountability, even reform of our law enforcement in some areas, in other areas LEOs act properly. Unfortunately, the media spends all its time on the first and rarely recognizes the latter. So while that is never to excuse reprehensible actions, it does require reasonable people to be balanced in their approach and paint the point with a fine brush that goes where it needs to go. That has not happened, and as a result, the cause of reform has been set back due to a pushback by those who have always performed well. It is just human nature that when we are unjustly accused that we resist. The result has been that many of the very people who could have been influential in enacting reform have been turned off by the "wide brush" comments of many. Such was the case in the first two weeks of Kaepernick's protest. His initial comments were poorly thought out, poorly expressed, even juvenile in their development. To his credit, he began to listen to wiser voices and became more realistic and mature in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, by the time he began to listen to people other than Nessa, he had already turned off many of the very people who could effect change at the core level. Such is the case when we "paint with a wide brush."

- It is sometimes better that we not do something even though it might be allowable.

Though the Constitution clearly allows peaceful protest, how and when we do that will often impact the success of the protest. In this case, it is clear that many people were turned off by the kneeling during the anthem. Now, we can discuss whether kneeling is appropriate or not, however, it is undeniable that it is considered an offense by many who would otherwise recognize and be active in the cause of needed reform.

Let me focus on the military component: It is true that there has been supported on both sides of the matter, however, the need for reform should not have split that demographic. The fact that it did points to the error in choosing the playing of the anthem as the time to protest.

Military and former military personnel are a very influential voice in America, like it or not. While we can justifiably question the efficacy of US involvement in military action, that in no way should be used to denigrate the emotional and physical sacrifice those people have made. In the eyes of a majority of the country, those people are held in high esteem and anything that diminishes their work is going to result in pushback. Such is the case with kneeling during the anthem.

Yes, kneeling appears to be protected under the 1st Amendment, however, as has been shown, it has not achieved the focus that is needed. Pro athletes have an incredible platform on which to stand. If the union, or even a small group of players had gotten together in a publicized news conference, with the support of various segments of society, it is undeniable that they could have had an impact without the form of the protest antagonizing many of the most important voices and forces of change that would be necessary to bring about that change. As it stands now, all the focus is on the form of protest with little or no coverage of the many players around the league who have given generously of their time and money to make a difference in community. That is sad.

Just my thoughts...

No, the kneeling protests are not protected by the First Amendment, "the state" is not abridging anyone's speech. The NFL as a private employer is allowing it as is their choice, just as it is their choice to limit speech which they do all the time, same as countless other employers who place limits on the speech of their employees.

Yes, I agree that the 1st applies only to the government, not private enterprise. I used the word "appears" as a means to show that fact but in retrospect, I should have made it clear that the players are protesting at the grace of the league. The fact that the league has done nothing to stop it is now irrelevant. Trump's juvenile, profane comment has assured that.

When the enemy of your enemy becomes your friend, you tend to unite, albeit under very tenuous circumstances.

In the past, there has been the question as to whether the protest/politics had an influence on diminished ratings. At present, there is no longer any doubt. People are turning it off. Only the most hard-core football fans are still watching.

For me, I refuse to give either side the power to alter my the enjoyment of a sport I have loved since high school. Will all this stuff continue to irritate me? Yes, absolutely. However, when the whistle blows it is about football...and I will not give that up for politics. The game transcends the politics.

NOTE: That is not to say the game stands about equality of treatment for all.

  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,668
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by Sourball:
Has anyone noticed that DirecTV is actually giving NFL Sunday Ticket refunds due to the complaints about last weeks NFL players and teams protest in response to Trump's statement?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-directv-refund-nfl-protests-20170927-story.html

$280.

I will have to call Dish to see if they are doing the same thing.

The ripples are spreading.

  • Nes49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,105
Coach Shanny said we my do something this Sunday....Cant we just leave politics out of this?
Originally posted by Nes49:
Coach Shanny said we my do something this Sunday....Cant we just leave politics out of this?

It was just fine until POTUS race-baited with disrespectful comments just so he can get some cheap cheers. Now the entire NFL wants to give him the finger. When are people going to see that dumb ass Trump is the one who keeps stirring s**t up.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by Sourball:
Has anyone noticed that DirecTV is actually giving NFL Sunday Ticket refunds due to the complaints about last weeks NFL players and teams protest in response to Trump's statement?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-directv-refund-nfl-protests-20170927-story.html

$280.

I will have to call Dish to see if they are doing the same thing.

The ripples are spreading.

What are you going to get a refund on, NFLRedzone channel?
Originally posted by Nes49:
Coach Shanny said we my do something this Sunday....Cant we just leave politics out of this?

It's ridiculously stupid for almost any business to delve into that can of worms. You will almost always tick off half of your clientel, and not many businesses can survive on half.

I'd blame Jed, but it looks like a league wide sickness.
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by Nes49:
Coach Shanny said we my do something this Sunday....Cant we just leave politics out of this?

It's ridiculously stupid for almost any business to delve into that can of worms. You will almost always tick off half of your clientel, and not many businesses can survive on half.

I'd blame Jed, but it looks like a league wide sickness.

Most people who booed probably already paid for season tickets. The ones who used to watch it on TV will still watch. It may take a minor hit but the ratings will come right back up as the playoff picture begins to unfold. It is still early in the year where the 2nd tier teams are not established.

The fans that boo are as fickle as their leader Trump. If they used to watch it on Sundays, they will keep watching it.
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