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Jaworski's QB List 2014

  • Phil
  • Member
  • Posts: 1,404
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Kaepernick may become the best QB of all time but at the moment he is just a huge ball of amazing raw talent. It's up to his attitude and coaches to take the next step. He's smart enough, can he see the field well enough?


Kaepernick throws the fewest interceptions of anyone and has the best INT% of anyone. So, I'm not sure what "seeing the field" is supposed to mean. Does it mean avoiding interceptions? Does it mean throwing for a high, yards-per-completion? If it means neither of those things, than I guess it doesn't mean anything.

Reading D's and going through progressions. Work with QB guru this year may help, and having a full stock of viable WR's. My main question with Kap is that his run threat sometimes relies on not going through progressions. Quick look to one reviver, not open, take off running. But how often do we do 3 and 4 WR sets? And how often are the run plays designed? After this season we're going to know a great deal more about Kaps game/potential. It's going to be exciting to watch unfold. Our O-line needs to pass protect a litter better this year...give him a second or two more "calm" time in the pocket. Will Kap ever be a pocket passer who can sit back and pick secondaries apart? He's shown he can do it.
[ Edited by Phil on Jul 24, 2014 at 12:40 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by crabman82:
the criteria is probably very blurry. you have guys who had bad seasons in 2013 at 10 and 11 and i assume they're there for being former sb mvp's. lists like this are hard because is it a career acheievment award? or a where are you at now award?

Yes, definately jumps them up the list, but Flacco has had one truely good year. Hard for me to give him this much credit. Also don't think Luck should be at five until he has a couple of really good years (and this from a fan of Luck's--from Stanford on).

Gotta remember Flacco is from a town near where Jawarski and Sal Palantonio are from . They have a bias towards him. And of course Jaws has a bias towards the Eagles thus why Foles is so high.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Gotta remember Flacco is from a town near where Jawarski and Sal Palantonio are from . They have a bias towards him. And of course Jaws has a bias towards the Eagles thus why Foles is so high.

Good point! He does tend to be emotional in his picks and often changes wholesale from one moment to the next.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by crabman82:
the criteria is probably very blurry. you have guys who had bad seasons in 2013 at 10 and 11 and i assume they're there for being former sb mvp's. lists like this are hard because is it a career acheievment award? or a where are you at now award?

Yes, definately jumps them up the list, but Flacco has had one truely good year. Hard for me to give him this much credit. Also don't think Luck should be at five until he has a couple of really good years (and this from a fan of Luck's--from Stanford on).

Gotta remember Flacco is from a town near where Jawarski and Sal Palantonio are from . They have a bias towards him. And of course Jaws has a bias towards the Eagles thus why Foles is so high.

Flacco made the playoffs every year he was in the league up until last year

Foles lit up the Raiders and made the Playoffs last year

These are great Preseason rankings
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Flacco made the playoffs every year he was in the league up until last year

Foles lit up the Raiders and made the Playoffs last year

These are great Preseason rankings

LOL! Flacco was playing with the best defense in the game and still was an iffy guy most years. Smith lit up the Raiders for five TDs last year and made the playoffs with a weaker team, so by that measure he must be better than Foles.

What has Flacco done post contract windfall? They had to give away/lose many vets to cover his contract and I just heard on ESPN that his team mates were heard muttering under their breaths every time he threw a dumb interception. I don't hate the guy, he is a good QB, but he gets too much credit for not screwing up the Super Bowl game. If memory serves--Boldin bailed him out a couple of times with incredible catches. To me, he's a better version of Jay Cutler...strong arm but erratic...too many ups and downs.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Flacco made the playoffs every year he was in the league up until last year

Foles lit up the Raiders and made the Playoffs last year

These are great Preseason rankings

LOL! Flacco was playing with the best defense in the game and still was an iffy guy most years. Smith lit up the Raiders for five TDs last year and made the playoffs with a weaker team, so by that measure he must be better than Foles.

What has Flacco done post contract windfall? They had to give away/lose many vets to cover his contract and I just heard on ESPN that his team mates were heard muttering under their breaths every time he threw a dumb interception. I don't hate the guy, he is a good QB, but he gets too much credit for not screwing up the Super Bowl game. If memory serves--Boldin bailed him out a couple of times with incredible catches. To me, he's a better version of Jay Cutler...strong arm but erratic...too many ups and downs.

wow such a homer to say the chiefs was a weaker team then the eagles with 9 Probowlers and a top ten defense last year

Remeber when Alex Smith would get credit for wins with a great defense and his stats wasn't an issue cause he won games ? Flacco won games and made it the Playoffs 5 years straight..he's a winner ..he did not throw a INT in that 2012 post season run. not saying he's the best but he can manage games enough to get you into the playoffs and proven he can win a SB as well
[ Edited by 49AllTheTime on Jul 24, 2014 at 8:59 AM ]
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
wow such a homer to say the chiefs was a weaker team then the eagles with 9 Probowlers and a top ten defense last year

Remeber when Alex Smith would get credit for wins with a great defense and his stats wasn't an issue cause he won games ? Flacco won games and made it the Playoffs 5 years straight..he's a winner ..he did not throw a INT in that 2012 post season run. not saying he's the best but he can manage games enough to get you into the playoffs and proven he can win a SB as well

Don't live in KC so can't be a homer! The Eagles had a better all-around team given the dream team rep. Both were first year coaches.

Smith did not get credit for any wins from some of you. The best that many of you said about him was "a good game manager." As far as stats go, I'll take fewer Ints and fewer TDs if the team has a great defense. Would you have prefered he throw the ball away with the game in hand?

At least you are consistent--calling Flacco a game manager...but I would argue with that description as well. He tends to make near-Romo mistakes at inopportune moments.

Edit: I'm still up in the air how much to credit SB wins to the QB. It's definately a factor in rating guys but how much? Is Kaepernick a lesser QB because he ended the Seattle game with an interception? Losing the SB? I don't think he is to blame but could a more "game" QB have won those two? Would Montana or Young have pulled them out? I tend to use SB wins as a "cherry on top of the cream" type thing.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jul 24, 2014 at 9:18 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
wow such a homer to say the chiefs was a weaker team then the eagles with 9 Probowlers and a top ten defense last year

Remeber when Alex Smith would get credit for wins with a great defense and his stats wasn't an issue cause he won games ? Flacco won games and made it the Playoffs 5 years straight..he's a winner ..he did not throw a INT in that 2012 post season run. not saying he's the best but he can manage games enough to get you into the playoffs and proven he can win a SB as well

Don't live in KC so can't be a homer! The Eagles had a better all-around team given the dream team rep. Both were first year coaches.

Smith did not get credit for any wins from some of you. The best that many of you said about him was "a good game manager." As far as stats go, I'll take fewer Ints and fewer TDs if the team has a great defense. Would you have prefered he throw the ball away with the game in hand?

At least you are consistent--calling Flacco a game manager...but I would argue with that description as well. He tends to make near-Romo mistakes at inopportune moments.

Edit: I'm still up in the air how much to credit SB wins to the QB. It's definately a factor in rating guys but how much? Is Kaepernick a lesser QB because he ended the Seattle game with an interception? Losing the SB? I don't think he is to blame but could a more "game" QB have won those two? Would Montana or Young have pulled them out? I tend to use SB wins as a "cherry on top of the cream" type thing.
You know the dream team eagles was like three years ago..and most of those players are not there, it was pretty much a rebuilding year...but that Division is so bad, but there had to be a Div winner.

And why defer the wins statement to other people didn't give him credit ? if Flacco was throwing INTs like you are claiming (Romo'esq) then Baltimore wouldn't have been making the playoffs and winning a SB (those Fkrs)

I give QBs credit on SB wins on how much they are involved in that game. Flacco won that game by throwing the ball...Balt couldn't run against us..unlike a Russell wilson who was just there and pretty much watched the rest of his team do the work.

Kaep be a more game QB ?

Kaep in every Playoff game he has played in his short career (6 Games) has won or lost it on the last play of the game. Every Playoff win that he has...he took control and won that game..not our defense or what ever. The Games he lost which we really didn't lose that bad and had chances to win..he made mistakes...but hey he doesn't even have two full seasons at the starting position.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,303
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Top 5 is ok, but the rest of this list blows.

Agree
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Top 5 is ok, but the rest of this list blows.

Agree

I think the problem is no one agrees on the bottom 5 of non-elite QBs, and hell even of the top 5, people will fight over the top 3 between Brady, Rodgers, and Manning.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You know the dream team eagles was like three years ago..and most of those players are not there, it was pretty much a rebuilding year...but that Division is so bad, but there had to be a Div winner.

And why defer the wins statement to other people didn't give him credit ? if Flacco was throwing INTs like you are claiming (Romo'esq) then Baltimore wouldn't have been making the playoffs and winning a SB (those Fkrs)

I give QBs credit on SB wins on how much they are involved in that game. Flacco won that game by throwing the ball...Balt couldn't run against us..unlike a Russell wilson who was just there and pretty much watched the rest of his team do the work.

Kaep be a more game QB ?

Kaep in every Playoff game he has played in his short career (6 Games) has won or lost it on the last play of the game. Every Playoff win that he has...he took control and won that game..not our defense or what ever. The Games he lost which we really didn't lose that bad and had chances to win..he made mistakes...but hey he doesn't even have two full seasons at the starting position.

Tongue in cheek regarding the "Dream Team" sorry I didn't make that more clear. Just shows how ratings can be so misdirected. They did have a very good group of players, however, and KC was very bad the year before. The Eagles were twice as good...four wins!

Flacco saved his best game for the Super Bowl, which is why I mentioned not knowing how much to credit that toward his overall rating. It certainly elevates him above his normal game but how much? The answer will be given at the end of his career. During the season he had 22 TDs and 10 Ints, No interceptions in the playoffs is Montana-esque.

Some players make the last play, some don't. How much is play calling? How much are team mates? How much is officiating? The catch was a fantastic play call, a fantastic catch, and a fantastic throw. The interception in Seattle was a bad play call, a mediocre attempt by the reciever (should have cleared the DB with a hand on his shoulder as refs weren't calling close at the end of the game) and a bad pass with no air under the ball...one of my criticisms of Kaepernick as a young, strong armed QB. If you have ever heard interviews about the catch, it was a play they had practiced repeatedly but not used, so a lot had to do with familiarity. The pass attempt to Crabtree seemed almost desperate...and predetermined in the QBs mind.

I happen to love Kaepernick, but realize his inexperience will limit him until he develops a bit more touch and has his recievers for a few years. I certainly don't blame him for the losses, just one factor and the coaches bear most of the blame. CK made some plays that no one else could, so his game was mostly fantastic.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You know the dream team eagles was like three years ago..and most of those players are not there, it was pretty much a rebuilding year...but that Division is so bad, but there had to be a Div winner.

And why defer the wins statement to other people didn't give him credit ? if Flacco was throwing INTs like you are claiming (Romo'esq) then Baltimore wouldn't have been making the playoffs and winning a SB (those Fkrs)

I give QBs credit on SB wins on how much they are involved in that game. Flacco won that game by throwing the ball...Balt couldn't run against us..unlike a Russell wilson who was just there and pretty much watched the rest of his team do the work.

Kaep be a more game QB ?

Kaep in every Playoff game he has played in his short career (6 Games) has won or lost it on the last play of the game. Every Playoff win that he has...he took control and won that game..not our defense or what ever. The Games he lost which we really didn't lose that bad and had chances to win..he made mistakes...but hey he doesn't even have two full seasons at the starting position.

Tongue in cheek regarding the "Dream Team" sorry I didn't make that more clear. Just shows how ratings can be so misdirected. They did have a very good group of players, however, and KC was very bad the year before. The Eagles were twice as good...four wins!

Flacco saved his best game for the Super Bowl, which is why I mentioned not knowing how much to credit that toward his overall rating. It certainly elevates him above his normal game but how much? The answer will be given at the end of his career. During the season he had 22 TDs and 10 Ints, No interceptions in the playoffs is Montana-esque.

Some players make the last play, some don't. How much is play calling? How much are team mates? How much is officiating? The catch was a fantastic play call, a fantastic catch, and a fantastic throw. The interception in Seattle was a bad play call, a mediocre attempt by the reciever (should have cleared the DB with a hand on his shoulder as refs weren't calling close at the end of the game) and a bad pass with no air under the ball...one of my criticisms of Kaepernick as a young, strong armed QB. If you have ever heard interviews about the catch, it was a play they had practiced repeatedly but not used, so a lot had to do with familiarity. The pass attempt to Crabtree seemed almost desperate...and predetermined in the QBs mind.

I happen to love Kaepernick, but realize his inexperience will limit him until he develops a bit more touch and has his recievers for a few years. I certainly don't blame him for the losses, just one factor and the coaches bear most of the blame. CK made some plays that no one else could, so his game was mostly fantastic.
yup..remember kaep is not a vet yet..so he has a lot to learn, coming from a college like Reno-Nev not what you would call a power house pro level developmental college

These rankings are not set in stone and is someones opinion
Originally posted by zaghawk:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Top 5 is ok, but the rest of this list blows.

Agree

I think the problem is no one agrees on the bottom 5 of non-elite QBs, and hell even of the top 5, people will fight over the top 3 between Brady, Rodgers, and Manning.

I think it gets murky after the top four--Rodgers, Brady, Brees and P Manning (in no particular order). Those guys have won Super Bowls, are game changers and undisputed leaders of their teams. I have a problem putting Luck that high after only a couple of years. Will he be there in a few years? Yes, I believe he will be in the P Manning category in another five years.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You know the dream team eagles was like three years ago..and most of those players are not there, it was pretty much a rebuilding year...but that Division is so bad, but there had to be a Div winner.

And why defer the wins statement to other people didn't give him credit ? if Flacco was throwing INTs like you are claiming (Romo'esq) then Baltimore wouldn't have been making the playoffs and winning a SB (those Fkrs)

I give QBs credit on SB wins on how much they are involved in that game. Flacco won that game by throwing the ball...Balt couldn't run against us..unlike a Russell wilson who was just there and pretty much watched the rest of his team do the work.

Kaep be a more game QB ?

Kaep in every Playoff game he has played in his short career (6 Games) has won or lost it on the last play of the game. Every Playoff win that he has...he took control and won that game..not our defense or what ever. The Games he lost which we really didn't lose that bad and had chances to win..he made mistakes...but hey he doesn't even have two full seasons at the starting position.

Thought our defense was more responsible for beating Carolina in the playoffs, Kaep maybe had one good half, like in Seattle, one good half. He just didn't throw the game away in Carolina like he did in Seattle. Kaeps best playoff games were against weak defensive teams like Green Bay twice, the Falcons, struggled against teams with good defense like Seattle and Carolina. Too much for a one read qb to process, hopefully he gets better.
Originally posted by T-9ers:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You know the dream team eagles was like three years ago..and most of those players are not there, it was pretty much a rebuilding year...but that Division is so bad, but there had to be a Div winner.

And why defer the wins statement to other people didn't give him credit ? if Flacco was throwing INTs like you are claiming (Romo'esq) then Baltimore wouldn't have been making the playoffs and winning a SB (those Fkrs)

I give QBs credit on SB wins on how much they are involved in that game. Flacco won that game by throwing the ball...Balt couldn't run against us..unlike a Russell wilson who was just there and pretty much watched the rest of his team do the work.

Kaep be a more game QB ?

Kaep in every Playoff game he has played in his short career (6 Games) has won or lost it on the last play of the game. Every Playoff win that he has...he took control and won that game..not our defense or what ever. The Games he lost which we really didn't lose that bad and had chances to win..he made mistakes...but hey he doesn't even have two full seasons at the starting position.

Thought our defense was more responsible for beating Carolina in the playoffs, Kaep maybe had one good half, like in Seattle, one good half. He just didn't throw the game away in Carolina like he did in Seattle. Kaeps best playoff games were against weak defensive teams like Green Bay twice, the Falcons, struggled against teams with good defense like Seattle and Carolina. Too much for a one read qb to process, hopefully he gets better.
What is your definition of struggling in those games ?