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Jaworski's QB List 2014

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If I were to make a list or lists it would have to be divided into what have they done, what potential do they have going forward and my likes/dislikes in style.

A: Best Today--intensity lives here
P Manning--unbelievable precision
Brady--heady and a winner
Brees--maximizes his talent, good under pressure
Rodgers--most all round

B: Great Talent/Occasional WTF
Roethlisberger--strength overcomes dumb
E Manning--elite...oops...erratic

C: Talent/Questionable Decisionmakers
Rivers--pressure gets to him
Romo--everythings' going well? Time to throw the ball away.
Cutler--throw it long...even if it's to a defender

C.2: Good but Next Level?
Ryan--just doesn't overwhelm in big games
Flacco--one year wonder? strong arm, selfish?
Smith--Control over sizzle
Bradford--but for injuries?

D: Young and Upcoming
Kaepernick--most raw talent
Luck--most overall mental/physical conbination
Wilson--gamer
RGIII--thought he was a gamer...?
Newton--2nd most raw talent
Foles--can he do it again?


These are groupings, not rankings. The difference is that I have no idea who is the best but I see these guys as similar in their careers so far.

Kaepernick may become the best QB of all time but at the moment he is just a huge ball of amazing raw talent. It's up to his attitude and coaches to take the next step. He's smart enough, can he see the field well enough?

I like this approach! These categories make more sense than the rankings.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If I were to make a list or lists it would have to be divided into what have they done, what potential do they have going forward and my likes/dislikes in style.

A: Best Today--intensity lives here
P Manning--unbelievable precision
Brady--heady and a winner
Brees--maximizes his talent, good under pressure
Rodgers--most all round

B: Great Talent/Occasional WTF
Roethlisberger--strength overcomes dumb
E Manning--elite...oops...erratic

C: Talent/Questionable Decisionmakers
Rivers--pressure gets to him
Romo--everythings' going well? Time to throw the ball away.
Cutler--throw it long...even if it's to a defender

C.2: Good but Next Level?
Ryan--just doesn't overwhelm in big games
Flacco--one year wonder? strong arm, selfish?
Smith--Control over sizzle
Bradford--but for injuries?

D: Young and Upcoming
Kaepernick--most raw talent
Luck--most overall mental/physical conbination
Wilson--gamer
RGIII--thought he was a gamer...?
Newton--2nd most raw talent
Foles--can he do it again?


These are groupings, not rankings. The difference is that I have no idea who is the best but I see these guys as similar in their careers so far.

Kaepernick may become the best QB of all time but at the moment he is just a huge ball of amazing raw talent. It's up to his attitude and coaches to take the next step. He's smart enough, can he see the field well enough?

I like this approach! These categories make more sense than the rankings.

yeah i like a grouping/tiered system aswell, for both power rankings and positional rankings
Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Kaepernick may become the best QB of all time but at the moment he is just a huge ball of amazing raw talent. It's up to his attitude and coaches to take the next step. He's smart enough, can he see the field well enough?


Kaepernick throws the fewest interceptions of anyone and has the best INT% of anyone. So, I'm not sure what "seeing the field" is supposed to mean. Does it mean avoiding interceptions? Does it mean throwing for a high, yards-per-completion? If it means neither of those things, than I guess it doesn't mean anything.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by TWOooohSIX:
I have defended Kaep and Russell before in arguments with most of my friends who root for teams outside of the NFCW. Their argument is can Kaep and Russ lead their team without the defense? I imagine that was one of Jaws criteria for his list. I then argue can any of those teams come in and beat said defenses. Mind you we had 3 of the top defenses in the league and 3 teams with winning records in our division.

If that was Jaws' criteria, then he must not have been watching the playoffs in 2012. Because the Niner defense gave up an average of about 30 points a game in those playoffs and the Niner offense kept them in the running down to the end.

Or Kap's game against New England, or any of his games against Green Bay, or any of the numerous clutch game-savings plays he's made.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
I love Kap, but I agree where he is at here on this list. Too many games last year were total duds for him.

I hear ya. For the most part he was pretty darn good last year, but when he was bad, he was REALLY bad. He was brutal in all 4 regular season losses, and the playoff loss he unraveled in the 4th quarter. It's not all on him, obviously for most of the season we had issues on offense revolving around the lack of WR depth. I look for him to take a big step forward this year. I think he is a Top 10 QB, and he will prove it without a doubt this year.

Agreed. I dont remember any games where he literally put the team on his back and carried us to a victory. Dont get me wrong, I am a huge Kap fan. Just being honest.

Its sad but the game I remember thinking 'Damn Kap is winning this for us' was in the Playoffs @ Seattle. He played like a beast until the 4th qtr. He kept us in that game offensively.
Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
Agreed. I dont remember any games where he literally put the team on his back and carried us to a victory. Dont get me wrong, I am a huge Kap fan. Just being honest.

Its sad but the game I remember thinking 'Damn Kap is winning this for us' was in the Playoffs @ Seattle. He played like a beast until the 4th qtr. He kept us in that game offensively.

Totally. It's a shame what happened at the end, because he was putting together an all-time classic type of QB performance. A real gutsy game on his part.
Russell Wilson should be #1 on the list
Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
Russell Wilson should be #1 on the list

lol..I'm sure Seahawks fans would try and make the case.

"Seahawks beat the Broncos in the SB, therefore Wilson > Manning"

Potato logic you would expect from the Pacific Northwest.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:01 PM ]
I am not sure i understand the hate on Andrew Luck.. He is the kind of QB that puts the team on his back and just wins. Do they even have a running game?
Originally posted by HomerJ:
I am not sure i understand the hate on Andrew Luck.. He is the kind of QB that puts the team on his back and just wins. Do they even have a running game?

Not hating on him, just don't understand how he's ranked so much higher than QBs who have outperformed him both statistically and in playoff victories. It's mostly based on his college hype.

Put it this way, if he was drafted in the 2nd round with much less hype and produced the same results, he'd be viewed as a very good young QB, but nowhere near Top 5. Putting him in the Top 5 at this stage is pure lunacy.

The Colts actually do have a running game, they just choose not to run. Last year Donald Brown averaged 5.3 yards per carry for them. They made a bad trade for Trent Richardson who brought the overall average down, but they still ranked 13th in yards-per-carry.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Jul 22, 2014 at 5:38 PM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by HomerJ:
I am not sure i understand the hate on Andrew Luck.. He is the kind of QB that puts the team on his back and just wins. Do they even have a running game?

Not hating on him, just don't understand how he's ranked so much higher than QBs who have outperformed him both statistically and in playoff victories. It's mostly based on his college hype.

Put it this way, if he was drafted in the 2nd round with much less hype and produced the same results, he'd be viewed as a very good young QB, but nowhere near Top 5. Putting him in the Top 5 at this stage is pure lunacy.

The Colts actually do have a running game, they just choose not to run. Last year Donald Brown averaged 5.3 yards per carry for them. They made a bad trade for Trent Richardson who brought the overall average down, but they still ranked 13th in yards-per-carry.

But he was drafted number one overall, making it easy for Indy to dump Manning. He wasn't selected in the 2nd round because he was viewed as the best QB prospect since Elway.

But stats are kind of meaningless to a point. Check out Daltons stats.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Kaepernick throws the fewest interceptions of anyone and has the best INT% of anyone. So, I'm not sure what "seeing the field" is supposed to mean. Does it mean avoiding interceptions? Does it mean throwing for a high, yards-per-completion? If it means neither of those things, than I guess it doesn't mean anything.

Seeing the field is the ability to know, instinctively or with vision, where every player is and where they will be. The ultimate QB in this category for me is Montana. He played like a point guard, distributing the ball the the guy who was in the best position to make a play. It's a special ability that every QB has to some degree, but the great ones have in spades. P Manning and Brees are the best right now. If the primary receiver is covered, how quickly does the QB adjust and find alternatives? Kaepernick has a way to go in this category.
Originally posted by HomerJ:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by HomerJ:
I am not sure i understand the hate on Andrew Luck.. He is the kind of QB that puts the team on his back and just wins. Do they even have a running game?

Not hating on him, just don't understand how he's ranked so much higher than QBs who have outperformed him both statistically and in playoff victories. It's mostly based on his college hype.

Put it this way, if he was drafted in the 2nd round with much less hype and produced the same results, he'd be viewed as a very good young QB, but nowhere near Top 5. Putting him in the Top 5 at this stage is pure lunacy.

The Colts actually do have a running game, they just choose not to run. Last year Donald Brown averaged 5.3 yards per carry for them. They made a bad trade for Trent Richardson who brought the overall average down, but they still ranked 13th in yards-per-carry.

But he was drafted number one overall, making it easy for Indy to dump Manning. He wasn't selected in the 2nd round because he was viewed as the best QB prospect since Elway.

But stats are kind of meaningless to a point. Check out Daltons stats.

I understand that. My point is to throw out the college hype and draft status. Judge him SOLELY by what he's done on the field in the NFL. Based on that criteria, he's a very good young QB, but not a Top 5 QB.

I agree total stats, like passing yards, are meaningless. In the case of Dalton, he's just in a pass-happy offense. I'm talking about efficiency stats. QB rating, QBR, YPA, TD %, INT %...these are the stats that really measure QB efficiency, and there are several QBs that outperform Luck here.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by HomerJ:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by HomerJ:
I am not sure i understand the hate on Andrew Luck.. He is the kind of QB that puts the team on his back and just wins. Do they even have a running game?

Not hating on him, just don't understand how he's ranked so much higher than QBs who have outperformed him both statistically and in playoff victories. It's mostly based on his college hype.

Put it this way, if he was drafted in the 2nd round with much less hype and produced the same results, he'd be viewed as a very good young QB, but nowhere near Top 5. Putting him in the Top 5 at this stage is pure lunacy.

The Colts actually do have a running game, they just choose not to run. Last year Donald Brown averaged 5.3 yards per carry for them. They made a bad trade for Trent Richardson who brought the overall average down, but they still ranked 13th in yards-per-carry.

But he was drafted number one overall, making it easy for Indy to dump Manning. He wasn't selected in the 2nd round because he was viewed as the best QB prospect since Elway.

But stats are kind of meaningless to a point. Check out Daltons stats.

I understand that. My point is to throw out the college hype and draft status. Judge him SOLELY by what he's done on the field in the NFL. Based on that criteria, he's a very good young QB, but not a Top 5 QB.

I agree total stats, like passing yards, are meaningless. In the case of Dalton, he's just in a pass-happy offense. I'm talking about efficiency stats. QB rating, QBR, YPA, TD %, INT %...these are the stats that really measure QB efficiency, and there are several QBs that outperform Luck here.

I respect your opinion, and you make a lot of good points..

But watching Luck play, to me at least, he's playing on a different level than every other young QB in his class. He has a very veteran presence the way he carries the offense. I'm not really sure if I've seen a weakness in his game, with the exception of maybe being a little too aggressive and forcing turnovers.
Originally posted by HomerJ:
I respect your opinion, and you make a lot of good points..

But watching Luck play, to me at least, he's playing on a different level than every other young QB in his class. He has a very veteran presence the way he carries the offense. I'm not really sure if I've seen a weakness in his game, with the exception of maybe being a little too aggressive and forcing turnovers.

Likewise, I respect your opinion. Luck definitely looks calm and collected back there. More mature in that regard than the other young QBs.