Brandon Flowers

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Why not?? they're pretty much the same group the defense had in the playoffs, minus only Tarrell Brown really, but even he had his bad moments in the playoffs. Carlos Rogers was a weakness and a non-factor in the playoffs, the defense actually played much better without him. I think a lot of people are underestimating Jimmie Ward, who's a real ball hawk that is pretty good in man coverage. And supposedly Chris Cook has been making plays in OTA's, according to Harbaugh he's looked real good.

Because Brock is the only one I trust at CB, and I even look at him like a gambler. Cully looked terrible last time he was on the field (despite looking good for much of the season before that) and still isn't cleared to play. I like Ward, too but I don't see him being relevant to Flowers. I would put Flowers above Cully, Cook, Wright, & Cox on the outside (he wasn't great in the slot last year despite making the probowl).

I think some of you may also be looking at Bethea has being an upgrade in coverage over Whitner, but I think that could be wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Overkill:
Because Brock is the only one I trust at CB, and I even look at him like a gambler. Cully looked terrible last time he was on the field (despite looking good for much of the season before that) and still isn't cleared to play. I like Ward, too but I don't see him being relevant to Flowers. I would put Flowers above Cully, Cook, Wright, & Cox on the outside (he wasn't great in the slot last year despite making the probowl).

I think some of you may also be looking at Bethea has being an upgrade in coverage over Whitner, but I think that could be wishful thinking.

Bethea is a night and day difference over Whitner, is that a serious post?

Its hard to knock Ward without seeing him play, I do know one thing though, he has some serious ball skills that are going to translate well in our scheme.
From what I have been reading it seems like Cook actually has the spot over Cully (could just be because he hasn't been cleared)

So far we have Brock as #1
Then #2 is a combo of 2 first round picks (Ward and Cook), Cox, Wright, and the 2 rookies we drafted (forgot their names)
With the right coaching, IMO Cooks is going to be the starter. Not to mention I think he is a way better fit then Flowers (and about 3mil a year cheaper)

It seems like you are also assuming that Flowers is going to do well here, we wouldn't ask him to do the same things that he was doing in KC.
Signing him would be a gamble as well

Not sure what people see in this guy, he's been on the decline and doesnt fit our system.

Originally posted by Quest4six:
Bethea is a night and day difference over Whitner, is that a serious post?

Its hard to knock Ward without seeing him play, I do know one thing though, he has some serious ball skills that are going to translate well in our scheme.
From what I have been reading it seems like Cook actually has the spot over Cully (could just be because he hasn't been cleared)

So far we have Brock as #1
Then #2 is a combo of 2 first round picks (Ward and Cook), Cox, Wright, and the 2 rookies we drafted (forgot their names)
With the right coaching, IMO Cooks is going to be the starter. Not to mention I think he is a way better fit then Flowers (and about 3mil a year cheaper)

It seems like you are also assuming that Flowers is going to do well here, we wouldn't ask him to do the same things that he was doing in KC.
Signing him would be a gamble as well

From PFF

Where Bethea struggles is in coverage, particularly on the deep ball. Despite a decent two INTs and five passes deflected, his -4.9 grade in coverage was 17th-worst among safeties. He also averaged an 11th-worst 14.5 average yards per completion and a 103.1 QB Rating. Now on the wrong side of 30, it's reasonable to think that his coverage protection will only decline from here. Contrast this to Whitner, who had the fifth-best +10.5 rating in coverage and a 66.8 QB Rating, and there is reason to expect a drop-off in the 49ers passing defense. Fortunately, San Francisco boasts one of the top front sevens in the league, so Bethea won't be asked to do too much.

I'm not saying Whitner was that great in coverage but Bethea has never been known for coverage either. He's basically a Whitner that draws fewer penalties.

Cook was an early 2nd round pick and he's getting reps because Cully is out. Everything I've read says Cully is likely to start when he comes back. Cook also sucked in MN... badly. I'd love to see him turn things around here, but even Rogers wasn't that bad in Washington. His biggest knock coming here was bad hands. Asking Cook to outdo Rogers turnaround isn't confidence inspiring, either.

And of course we wouldn't be asking Flowers to do the same thing here that he did in KC. That was pretty much my point. He did better on the outside and was switched to the slot alot last year in KC. He'd be back outside here. His style isn't that different from Brock. I live in KC's market and I've seen most of his games.

Our front 7 is the defense and we rode them to the NFCG last year. The secondary wasn't horrid but we did lose 2 of the 3 starting CB's. While added Ward (and apparently agree on his potential), the other spot is a big enough question mark that bringing in Flowers makes some football sense imo. Not sure why you're bringing salaries into because I already said I don't want us to bring Flowers in for just that reason. Kohole was just wondering why I don't have much faith in our secondary as it stands today.

Originally posted by Quest4six:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Why not?? they're pretty much the same group the defense had in the playoffs, minus only Tarrell Brown really, but even he had his bad moments in the playoffs. Carlos Rogers was a weakness and a non-factor in the playoffs, the defense actually played much better without him. I think a lot of people are underestimating Jimmie Ward, who's a real ball hawk that is pretty good in man coverage. And supposedly Chris Cook has been making plays in OTA's, according to Harbaugh he's looked real good.

This is solid post.


People seem to forget how bad our secondary was that NFC champ game and whos fault it was (Rogers and Whitner)
I don't understand why people want us to sign a 28 year old vet coming off a down year (even though it still was a pro-bowl year) when we drafted and signed about 4-5 other CBs who could end up being just as good, and are drastically cheaper.

Not to mention I heard Cook is taking first team snaps at OTAs? First round draft pick talent in our defense usually equates to good things

Agree, I think Bethea is going 2 be a nice upgrade over Whitner and Ward will b as far as a nickle CB over Rogers with Culliver better on the outside than him. I also really like D.Johnson, I'm a UNC fan so I watch a lot of ACC football, he was very good & I think has future starter potential and can contribute right away.

he belongs on the san francisco giants

Originally posted by Quest4six:
Bethea is a night and day difference over Whitner, is that a serious post?

Its hard to knock Ward without seeing him play, I do know one thing though, he has some serious ball skills that are going to translate well in our scheme.
From what I have been reading it seems like Cook actually has the spot over Cully (could just be because he hasn't been cleared)

So far we have Brock as #1
Then #2 is a combo of 2 first round picks (Ward and Cook), Cox, Wright, and the 2 rookies we drafted (forgot their names)
With the right coaching, IMO Cooks is going to be the starter. Not to mention I think he is a way better fit then Flowers (and about 3mil a year cheaper)

It seems like you are also assuming that Flowers is going to do well here, we wouldn't ask him to do the same things that he was doing in KC.
Signing him would be a gamble as well

Culliver is still expected to be the starter next to Brock on the outside. Cook is getting reps now for 2 reasons, the main being that Culliver like you said, hasn't been cleared (or the team is being very careful w/him, either way he's not doing anything other than individual drills). The other being that with Ward out till TC, Wright, Cox & Morris are working the nickle spot. I would assume that if everyone were healthy, you would see Wright & Cox in the mix on the outside as well.

I don't think Flowers would be a good fit for our system.

Flowers is a straight baller so is bethea yall will see. Whoever get Brandon is one lucky team, great press cb.

Originally posted by filthydogma:
Flowers is a straight baller so is bethea yall will see. Whoever get Brandon is one lucky team, great press cb.

It depends what scheme he is in. He couldn't handle press-man coverage. That's why KC cut him. Maybe he can pull it off if he's in a Tampa 2 style D, where he drops into zone after the initial jam. I think that would be his best fit, because he is very instinctive and plays the run well.

No thanks... I think we have gotten rid of our weak links in "Hitner" and Rogers. No more personal fouls and no getting burned all the time in Rogers. We have replaced them with another pro-bowl safety and a 1st round rookie with 4.4 wheels that had 97 tackles and 7 INTs last year. We added 2 CBs that are 6-2 and super fast in Cook and Johnson and we have vets in Cox and Wright.

I remember everyone hating on Brock when he let Mario score that TD in the NFCC and fans didn't want to see him as a starter. He ranked 12th among CBs last year and is prime for another good season. Culliver has the size and speed to be a solid NO 2 and played well up until the SB in his rookie yr, why couldn't he have a break out yr much like Brock? Just because a big name comes up doesn't mean we have to drop a bunch of cash down, SF has never had "shutdown" CBs and yet we have been a top 5 D for years. We are good to go with the crew TB and JH have put together!

Originally posted by Quest4six:
This is solid post.


People seem to forget how bad our secondary was that NFC champ game and whos fault it was (Rogers and Whitner)
I don't understand why people want us to sign a 28 year old vet coming off a down year (even though it still was a pro-bowl year) when we drafted and signed about 4-5 other CBs who could end up being just as good, and are drastically cheaper.

Not to mention I heard Cook is taking first team snaps at OTAs? First round draft pick talent in our defense usually equates to good things

Culliver looked just as bad as Whitner and Rogers if not worse

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Quest4six:
This is solid post.


People seem to forget how bad our secondary was that NFC champ game and whos fault it was (Rogers and Whitner)
I don't understand why people want us to sign a 28 year old vet coming off a down year (even though it still was a pro-bowl year) when we drafted and signed about 4-5 other CBs who could end up being just as good, and are drastically cheaper.

Not to mention I heard Cook is taking first team snaps at OTAs? First round draft pick talent in our defense usually equates to good things

Culliver looked just as bad as Whitner and Rogers if not worse

Culliver overall had a good rookie season with a bad game in the SB, why wouldn't he get better after his rookie season?

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Quest4six:
This is solid post.


People seem to forget how bad our secondary was that NFC champ game and whos fault it was (Rogers and Whitner)
I don't understand why people want us to sign a 28 year old vet coming off a down year (even though it still was a pro-bowl year) when we drafted and signed about 4-5 other CBs who could end up being just as good, and are drastically cheaper.

Not to mention I heard Cook is taking first team snaps at OTAs? First round draft pick talent in our defense usually equates to good things

I think our secondary will be better! We've gotten younger,faster, and bigger.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Quest4six:
This is solid post.


People seem to forget how bad our secondary was that NFC champ game and whos fault it was (Rogers and Whitner)
I don't understand why people want us to sign a 28 year old vet coming off a down year (even though it still was a pro-bowl year) when we drafted and signed about 4-5 other CBs who could end up being just as good, and are drastically cheaper.

Not to mention I heard Cook is taking first team snaps at OTAs? First round draft pick talent in our defense usually equates to good things

Culliver looked just as bad as Whitner and Rogers if not worse

Culliver overall had a good rookie season with a bad game in the SB, why wouldn't he get better after his rookie season?

I think Culliver can get better just pointing out that the whole secondary got torched that playoff run not just Whitner and Rogers. Means nothing going forward