Beastmode could retire??

Losing Red Bryant is sorta like us losing Delanie Walker.....an underrated piece of the puzzle that really makes things click. Anyone here think if we had Delanie on the team last year our offense would have been noticeably better in the early part of the season?

Losing Golden Tate will hurt in return game and even the offense -- he's built for the Wilson scramble machine.

Percy Harvin's worth is overrated. I think that guy is meant to be on a team with a real high octane offense, not a run first team like ours or Seattle's. At least for the fact that neither Roman nor Bevell seem to be great at integrating these sorts of elements in the passing game. Credit for doing it in the super bowl, but it just looked like Denver was going to be unable to stop anything that day.

They have a ten year curse to break, which was last upheld by the Belichick Patriots. The Seahawks might have the pieces in place to break it, but it won't be easy.

That remaining 9 weeks of their schedule is brutal.

Double post.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Losing Red Bryant is sorta like us losing Delanie Walker.....an underrated piece of the puzzle that really makes things click. Anyone here think if we had Delanie on the team last year our offense would have been noticeably better in the early part of the season?

Losing Golden Tate will hurt in return game and even the offense -- he's built for the Wilson scramble machine.

Percy Harvin's worth is overrated. I think that guy is meant to be on a team with a real high octane offense, not a run first team like ours or Seattle's. At least for the fact that neither Roman nor Bevell seem to be great at integrating these sorts of elements in the passing game. Credit for doing it in the super bowl, but it just looked like Denver was going to be unable to stop anything that day.

They have a ten year curse to break, which was last upheld by the Belichick Patriots. The Seahawks might have the pieces in place to break it, but it won't be easy.

That remaining 9 weeks of their schedule is brutal.

I love Big Red but there is a reason Seattle made no attempt to even try and restructure him. He still counts for a $3 mill cap hit against us, he signed in Jacksonville and has a 5.4 mill cap hit for them this year. Essentially making the Kevin Williams signing a wash assuming he restructured to a similar cap hit, paying him the same amount in Seattle and we didn't sign Williams.

It was fairly obvious teams had figured out how to play Seattle with Big Red on the end. He was great in helping collapse the pocket or stuffing the run up the middle but wildly vulnerable to outside runs or short passes on his side and teams used that against us. It is why he had reduced snaps as the season went along and why our run defense actually improved when he wasn't on the field. Don't get me wrong I loved his attitude and team first mentality but he only had 30 tackles and 1.5 sacks on an absolutely stacked D-line in front of the best secondary in the league.

Delanie Walker left with no viable replacement on the roster and just hope that Vance McDonald would be able to match his production. Seattle used last year to see how they could do without Bryant and they believe they were better off to release him than to even try and restructure him.

Tate is another guy I love to watch, his balance was incredible and he had amazing hands but Seattle was in a position with Baldwin and Kearse already showing they deserve more playing time and Harvin looking to be back to the form where he player 56 out of 59 games before his ankle injury, that they were in a sticky position. No matter what you think of Tate he is a #2 receiver and will never be a #1. Seattle wants at least one #1 receiver on the field. Ultimately that WR corp will look like 1 #1, a speed guy and two #2's as the primary corp of receivers. Resigning Tate meant losing either Baldwin or Kearse. Baldwin already signed for less than Tate wanted and Kearse still has two years on his contract for dirt. Again a situation where Seattle already has the proven guys on the roster to make Tate expendable. It also opens up another roster spot for rookies or FA's so Seattle has the opportunity to try and find that true #1.

The area I fear we will suffer from the loss of Red and Tate is ST's. Red was a monster in blocking field goals and Tate was an awesome punt returner. This is where we don't already have proven replacements and could be vital to our ST's. Hopefully it doesn't hurt us to much.

Harvin is a big upgrade over Tate when talking about Wilson's scrambling. He is much better at getting separation than Tate and will constantly draw defenses to wherever he is on the field putting others in one on ones and drawing LB's away from the LOS. He should dramatically improve our short passing game and that means Wilson will be getting the ball out quicker. The biggest knock on our offense last year was our O-line and that was 90% due to injury. Those injuries should be significantly reduced if Wilson can consistently get rid of the ball faster. It means less time for the line to protect as well as helps to stop defenses stacking the box as much as they did last year.

Ultimately I think our short passing game was our biggest weakness. Improving that alone could reap big rewards.

In 2006 the same conversation was had that the team losing the super bowl hadn't made the playoffs the next year in around a decade. We made the playoffs that year snapping that trend while the team that won the super bowl did not make the playoffs, starting that trend you are now talking about going the other direction. I have confidence we can reverse that trend again.

Originally posted by 12thfan:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Losing Red Bryant is sorta like us losing Delanie Walker.....an underrated piece of the puzzle that really makes things click. Anyone here think if we had Delanie on the team last year our offense would have been noticeably better in the early part of the season?

Losing Golden Tate will hurt in return game and even the offense -- he's built for the Wilson scramble machine.

Percy Harvin's worth is overrated. I think that guy is meant to be on a team with a real high octane offense, not a run first team like ours or Seattle's. At least for the fact that neither Roman nor Bevell seem to be great at integrating these sorts of elements in the passing game. Credit for doing it in the super bowl, but it just looked like Denver was going to be unable to stop anything that day.

They have a ten year curse to break, which was last upheld by the Belichick Patriots. The Seahawks might have the pieces in place to break it, but it won't be easy.

That remaining 9 weeks of their schedule is brutal.

I love Big Red but there is a reason Seattle made no attempt to even try and restructure him. He still counts for a $3 mill cap hit against us, he signed in Jacksonville and has a 5.4 mill cap hit for them this year. Essentially making the Kevin Williams signing a wash assuming he restructured to a similar cap hit, paying him the same amount in Seattle and we didn't sign Williams.

It was fairly obvious teams had figured out how to play Seattle with Big Red on the end. He was great in helping collapse the pocket or stuffing the run up the middle but wildly vulnerable to outside runs or short passes on his side and teams used that against us. It is why he had reduced snaps as the season went along and why our run defense actually improved when he wasn't on the field. Don't get me wrong I loved his attitude and team first mentality but he only had 30 tackles and 1.5 sacks on an absolutely stacked D-line in front of the best secondary in the league.

Delanie Walker left with no viable replacement on the roster and just hope that Vance McDonald would be able to match his production. Seattle used last year to see how they could do without Bryant and they believe they were better off to release him than to even try and restructure him.

Tate is another guy I love to watch, his balance was incredible and he had amazing hands but Seattle was in a position with Baldwin and Kearse already showing they deserve more playing time and Harvin looking to be back to the form where he player 56 out of 59 games before his ankle injury, that they were in a sticky position. No matter what you think of Tate he is a #2 receiver and will never be a #1. Seattle wants at least one #1 receiver on the field. Ultimately that WR corp will look like 1 #1, a speed guy and two #2's as the primary corp of receivers. Resigning Tate meant losing either Baldwin or Kearse. Baldwin already signed for less than Tate wanted and Kearse still has two years on his contract for dirt. Again a situation where Seattle already has the proven guys on the roster to make Tate expendable. It also opens up another roster spot for rookies or FA's so Seattle has the opportunity to try and find that true #1.

The area I fear we will suffer from the loss of Red and Tate is ST's. Red was a monster in blocking field goals and Tate was an awesome punt returner. This is where we don't already have proven replacements and could be vital to our ST's. Hopefully it doesn't hurt us to much.

Harvin is a big upgrade over Tate when talking about Wilson's scrambling. He is much better at getting separation than Tate and will constantly draw defenses to wherever he is on the field putting others in one on ones and drawing LB's away from the LOS. He should dramatically improve our short passing game and that means Wilson will be getting the ball out quicker. The biggest knock on our offense last year was our O-line and that was 90% due to injury. Those injuries should be significantly reduced if Wilson can consistently get rid of the ball faster. It means less time for the line to protect as well as helps to stop defenses stacking the box as much as they did last year.

Ultimately I think our short passing game was our biggest weakness. Improving that alone could reap big rewards.

In 2006 the same conversation was had that the team losing the super bowl hadn't made the playoffs the next year in around a decade. We made the playoffs that year snapping that trend while the team that won the super bowl did not make the playoffs, starting that trend you are now talking about going the other direction. I have confidence we can reverse that trend again.

this is so over stated for a guy who never topped 30 catches or 350 rec yards in sf. think about that thats less than 2 catches per game and just over 20 yards per game in his best season in sf.

Originally posted by crabman82:
this is so over stated for a guy who never topped 30 catches or 350 rec yards in sf. think about that thats less than 2 catches per game and just over 20 yards per game in his best season in sf.

So then do you think JT'sBiggestFan was saying Red Bryant being released is no big deal? Or are you saying that you think releasing Big Red is no big deal?

Originally posted by 12thfan:

Originally posted by crabman82:

this is so over stated for a guy who never topped 30 catches or 350 rec yards in sf. think about that thats less than 2 catches per game and just over 20 yards per game in his best season in sf.

So then do you think JT'sBiggestFan was saying Red Bryant being released is no big deal? Or are you saying that you think releasing Big Red is no big deal?

D walkers game wasn't all about passing. We really used are tightends to block. The wham blocks that D would do in the run game giving us massive amounts of yards.

Anyways about Beastmode. I don't blame him one bit for holding out. Looking at how much Harvin, Sherman, Earl, make it must be a big time blow to his ego, next season even Russel Wilson will be paid. The hawks got away with a lot of cheap contracts, but it's what happens you have to pay these guys at some point.

Five million is a complete rip off for the rights to beastmode. He should be the second highest paid running back behind Peterson.

Don't retire an be the excuse why we beat SEATTLE! Pls. Stay for the serving we will be giving out.

Originally posted by 12thfan:

Originally posted by crabman82:
this is so over stated for a guy who never topped 30 catches or 350 rec yards in sf. think about that thats less than 2 catches per game and just over 20 yards per game in his best season in sf.

So then do you think JT'sBiggestFan was saying Red Bryant being released is no big deal? Or are you saying that you think releasing Big Red is no big deal?

red bryant was a core team leader who had become an expensive run stopper. he wasnt playing as much at the end. against the passing teams he is irrevelant. against teams like the niners he was a key cog in some on your wins by stopping our run at the clink.

I think he's their best player. 2nd best back in the league, nobody wants to tackle that fool. Take away Sherman and the game is still close, take away Thomas and maybe they still win, but take away Lynch or Wilson, we win for sure.

I also think it's unwise to undervalue the assets of Percy Harvin, that man is fast and inpactful. He killed us that game in Minnesota a few years back, and just when people thought the trade was a bust, he had a huge Super Bowl performance and makes that trade all worth it in my opinion. It was an all in move for them, and it worked. Would love to have a player like that as a Niner, we need that speed.

Also I don't like hearing this we want to beat Seattle at full strength with Beast Mode on the field, I call BS, football careers are short, I almost expect these things to happen, i hope he quits. Nothing is gauranteed from one season to the next now a days.

Originally posted by crabman82:
red bryant was a core team leader who had become an expensive run stopper. he wasnt playing as much at the end. against the passing teams he is irrevelant. against teams like the niners he was a key cog in some on your wins by stopping our run at the clink.

For the year Red played in 46% of defensive snaps. That increased to 51% in the NFCC game. Not an enormous difference.

For the most part the Niners weren't set up to take advantage of his weakness, which is protecting the edge. LMJ hardly played and he is likely the only back with the speed to take advantage of it and you rarely threw to your RB's or tried screens. With as much as you like to run your jumbo package Red's size came in handy and gave us a favorable match up because we didn't have to worry about you exploiting him.

Against passing teams he was pretty much ineffective as a DE and if that team ran screens to his side or had a speedy RB he was a liability. You cannot take away from his leadership and team first attitude though. That will be sorely missed anytime you lose someone like that.

Like I said I love the guy and wish him the best but I understand why they let him walk as opposed to trying to restructure him. Even with the 3 mill hit he was replaceable and that is what they did with guys already on the roster and guys like Kevin Williams.

Clemons is another good player we released without attempting to resign but I think at 31 and with Avril, Mayowa and Schofield all having spent some time in his role and being much younger, he was also expendable.

Originally posted by 12thfan:

Originally posted by crabman82:
red bryant was a core team leader who had become an expensive run stopper. he wasnt playing as much at the end. against the passing teams he is irrevelant. against teams like the niners he was a key cog in some on your wins by stopping our run at the clink.

For the year Red played in 46% of defensive snaps. That increased to 51% in the NFCC game. Not an enormous difference.

For the most part the Niners weren't set up to take advantage of his weakness, which is protecting the edge. LMJ hardly played and he is likely the only back with the speed to take advantage of it and you rarely threw to your RB's or tried screens. With as much as you like to run your jumbo package Red's size came in handy and gave us a favorable match up because we didn't have to worry about you exploiting him.

Against passing teams he was pretty much ineffective as a DE and if that team ran screens to his side or had a speedy RB he was a liability. You cannot take away from his leadership and team first attitude though. That will be sorely missed anytime you lose someone like that.

Like I said I love the guy and wish him the best but I understand why they let him walk as opposed to trying to restructure him. Even with the 3 mill hit he was replaceable and that is what they did with guys already on the roster and guys like Kevin Williams.

Clemons is another good player we released without attempting to resign but I think at 31 and with Avril, Mayowa and Schofield all having spent some time in his role and being much younger, he was also expendable.

the thing is we have 2 great teams who will some players go and you already see both fan bases trying to over emphasize the losses. the probable outcome on both sides is that we'll find out both or these teams kept the right guys and the guys they did have to part with will be replaced somehow. maybe with a top tier draft pick, or maybe some unheralded guy. i think its a waste of time for both size to attempt to over analyze it.

Originally posted by T-9ers:
I think he's their best player. 2nd best back in the league, nobody wants to tackle that fool. Take away Sherman and the game is still close, take away Thomas and maybe they still win, but take away Lynch or Wilson, we win for sure.

I also think it's unwise to undervalue the assets of Percy Harvin, that man is fast and inpactful. He killed us that game in Minnesota a few years back, and just when people thought the trade was a bust, he had a huge Super Bowl performance and makes that trade all worth it in my opinion. It was an all in move for them, and it worked. Would love to have a player like that as a Niner, we need that speed.

Also I don't like hearing this we want to beat Seattle at full strength with Beast Mode on the field, I call BS, football careers are short, I almost expect these things to happen, i hope he quits. Nothing is gauranteed from one season to the next now a days.

I think he's their best player. 2nd best back in the league, nobody wants to tackle that fool. Take away Sherman and the game is still close, take away Thomas and maybe they still win, but take away Lynch or Wilson, we win for sure.

I'd have to agree with you. we were already without Harvin and Rice, losing Lynch also would have definitely cost us the game. Hopefully we will have all three of them on the field this year.

Originally posted by crabman82:
the thing is we have 2 great teams who will some players go and you already see both fan bases trying to over emphasize the losses. the probable outcome on both sides is that we'll find out both or these teams kept the right guys and the guys they did have to part with will be replaced somehow. maybe with a top tier draft pick, or maybe some unheralded guy. i think its a waste of time for both size to attempt to over analyze it.

Agreed 100%.

Originally posted by T-9ers:

I think he's their best player. 2nd best back in the league, nobody wants to tackle that fool. Take away Sherman and the game is still close, take away Thomas and maybe they still win, but take away Lynch or Wilson, we win for sure.

I also think it's unwise to undervalue the assets of Percy Harvin, that man is fast and inpactful. He killed us that game in Minnesota a few years back, and just when people thought the trade was a bust, he had a huge Super Bowl performance and makes that trade all worth it in my opinion. It was an all in move for them, and it worked. Would love to have a player like that as a Niner, we need that speed.

Also I don't like hearing this we want to beat Seattle at full strength with Beast Mode on the field, I call BS, football careers are short, I almost expect these things to happen, i hope he quits. Nothing is gauranteed from one season to the next now a days.

LOL a performance in the Super Bowl, which ultimately didn't mean much because Denver didn't even show up to the game, makes the trade go from "bust" to "worth it" to you? Denver was gonna take it straight up the tailpipe regardless. That doesn't even come close to making the trade worth it.

LMAO

Looks like Lynch showed up for that crack money.