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The end of the 12th man

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Unless there is more injury to key players I can pretty much guarantee we should be able to field a better team than last year. This was apparent to me at the conclusion of camp last season. I saw us NOT sell out for Percy while crab and Cully went down prior to the season and AJJ stunk it up leaving us with NO speed at WR and VD as the only field stretcher. I knew we were long in the tooth in the secondary and that we had to acclimate Vance McDonald. I knew we had just Gore and two situation RBs around him. I knew we had no number 2 and 3 WR to start the year. I knew we had to get younger and deeper. I knew we had to deal with our injuries and play the one seeded schedule. I knew that Kap had to start his first full season in spite of all this.

BUT then I realized that...Kap would have that year under his belt and that we would get deeper and better at WR. We would get healthy and replace an older weaker Goody on the OL. We would get real every down help for Gore at RB. We would have Vance a year further along and QP as well. We would have Crab back healthy. We would get Tank and Lattimore in action. And I knew we would have 13 picks 6 top100 to address the youth speed and depth at DB and still stockpile talent for the future. I said then prior to 2013 and during it that no matter how good we were then we would be better now. Bro, I hate to break it to you but we are. Substantially!

We had Boldin as number one and no two or three. We lost at least two games last year because we didn't have VD or a two and three WR. Those games were at NO and vs CAR. We lost to IND because Roman inexplicably stopped running the ball and we just got our usual beat down in SEA but not having a two three and VD certainly made your job easier!

SEA deserves all the bragging rights of the champion especially since you beat us on the way to it but I know and our fans know what our situation was and we know we have tangibly improved significantly and we believe in this team!

Every team can make the exact same argument. Rice played half a season on a bumb knee only catching 16 passes before it gave out and Harvin didn't see real time until the Super bowl. McCoy our 2nd string TE was on IR to start the year so we had to play our rookie Willson and Miller missed time due to injury also. McCoy re-signed also. Okung missed nearly half the year and Unger missed significant time and played banged up all year plus our RT was out for significant time. Wilson was the most hurried QB in the entire league all year due to that and didn't have the weapons he will have to start this year plus he is now going into his 3rd year when most QB's see their biggest growth.

you can do this for any team and the guys that we are high on like Scruggs, Williams, Hill, Mayowa on and on look like they could be impact players. Our draft also looks like we got a very good WR in the second and 4th on and on but again until those guys take the field and prove they are really good enough I don't factor them in.

We lost Tate a good WR that was not going to see significant playing time even if we resigned him because of Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse and Rice are all proven products that will split time and Pete likes to get the rookies on the field. Heck even Lockette caught balls in the super bowl while the game was still close. The D-lineman lost have already been replaced by proven products in Bennett and Avril and Bowie and Bailey have already played significant snaps in replacement of Giacamini when he was injured.

You guys have some great talent but you have some big question marks also. Three starters in the secondary gone. Goodwin gone and Gore and Cowboy are another year older and I know I said it before but that is the big elephant in the room. Gore and Cowboy are the leaders on that team and they won't be easily replaced. Your rookies and guys waiting in the wing might turn out to be great but the odds of finding your Gore or Cowboy is extremely low (at least next year) while the odds of them seeing significant drop off is not.

You still haven't answered who are these guys your so high on going to be replacing.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Dude you are so full of s**t, your fanbase is no louder outside the s**thole stadium than any other. Pompous asses and Johnny come lately bandwagoners with a lameass ripped off nickname.

I see you have a problem dealing with facts. Sorry about that. I see your a Niner fan from Memphis? Huh, interesting.
I have a problem with the "1976-2013" vs "1946-1981" argument because it completely discounts what the 49ers did with their success in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The alley oop, the Million dollar backfield, two championship game appearances in the early 70s.

The Super Bowl wins didn't happen until the 80s, but the team wasn't completely irrelevant. I'm not saying Seattle was completely irrelevant, but before Holmgren, what had the team really done? I think the argument between the two fan bases is a tad bit idiotic at times, but I find that there's more hate and vitriol from Seahawks fans. I've been to their forum once, and you can't go a page without seeing a member listing "42-13" "29-3" and now "23-17". Go to any article about the 49ers, be it an article about a 4th string long snapper... and there's inevitably a post about "Kaeperdouche! Kaeperchoke! LOL 42-13!"

There's so much hate for Kaepernick from Seahawks fans, but I can't understand why? He's the antithesis to Wilson's squeaky clean image, but why devote so much of your energy to hate Kap?
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Originally posted by 12thfan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Dude you are so full of s**t, your fanbase is no louder outside the s**thole stadium than any other. Pompous asses and Johnny come lately bandwagoners with a lameass ripped off nickname.

I see you have a problem dealing with facts. Sorry about that. I see your a Niner fan from Memphis? Huh, interesting.

Chiefs had 12th man long before - that is, if you really want to deal with facts.
Originally posted by 12thfan:
Every team can make the exact same argument. Rice played half a season on a bumb knee only catching 16 passes before it gave out and Harvin didn't see real time until the Super bowl. McCoy our 2nd string TE was on IR to start the year so we had to play our rookie Willson and Miller missed time due to injury also. McCoy re-signed also. Okung missed nearly half the year and Unger missed significant time and played banged up all year plus our RT was out for significant time. Wilson was the most hurried QB in the entire league all year due to that and didn't have the weapons he will have to start this year plus he is now going into his 3rd year when most QB's see their biggest growth.

you can do this for any team and the guys that we are high on like Scruggs, Williams, Hill, Mayowa on and on look like they could be impact players. Our draft also looks like we got a very good WR in the second and 4th on and on but again until those guys take the field and prove they are really good enough I don't factor them in.

We lost Tate a good WR that was not going to see significant playing time even if we resigned him because of Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse and Rice are all proven products that will split time and Pete likes to get the rookies on the field. Heck even Lockette caught balls in the super bowl while the game was still close. The D-lineman lost have already been replaced by proven products in Bennett and Avril and Bowie and Bailey have already played significant snaps in replacement of Giacamini when he was injured.

You guys have some great talent but you have some big question marks also. Three starters in the secondary gone. Goodwin gone and Gore and Cowboy are another year older and I know I said it before but that is the big elephant in the room. Gore and Cowboy are the leaders on that team and they won't be easily replaced. Your rookies and guys waiting in the wing might turn out to be great but the odds of finding your Gore or Cowboy is extremely low (at least next year) while the odds of them seeing significant drop off is not.

You still haven't answered who are these guys your so high on going to be replacing.

Training camp will answer that question but what I believe in is the 90 man roster we have assembled to date. The better the 90 man roster the better the competition in camp and the better the 53 men that emerge. We will be much improved this year from the last
Originally posted by LayTheWoodall:
I have a problem with the "1976-2013" vs "1946-1981" argument because it completely discounts what the 49ers did with their success in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The alley oop, the Million dollar backfield, two championship game appearances in the early 70s.

The Super Bowl wins didn't happen until the 80s, but the team wasn't completely irrelevant. I'm not saying Seattle was completely irrelevant, but before Holmgren, what had the team really done? I think the argument between the two fan bases is a tad bit idiotic at times, but I find that there's more hate and vitriol from Seahawks fans. I've been to their forum once, and you can't go a page without seeing a member listing "42-13" "29-3" and now "23-17". Go to any article about the 49ers, be it an article about a 4th string long snapper... and there's inevitably a post about "Kaeperdouche! Kaeperchoke! LOL 42-13!"

There's so much hate for Kaepernick from Seahawks fans, but I can't understand why? He's the antithesis to Wilson's squeaky clean image, but why devote so much of your energy to hate Kap?

It is because of this:

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022670039_dannycolumn15xml.html
Originally posted by 12thfan:
I see you have a problem dealing with facts. Sorry about that. I see your a Niner fan from Memphis? Huh, interesting.

The 49ers are one of the most storied franchises in this league. As a result the 49ers have a ton of fans from decades ago all over the world. It is not uncommon for us to have fans in Memphis or in England. SEA have lots of new fans due to their recent success but prior to now I haven't been seeing SEA jerseys here in DFW. I find this interesting when I approach those fans and I seem to know more about their team history than they do. There are bandwaggoners in every fan base but Memphis ain't one of them and it ain't odd that he lives near Memphis. If the Seahawks keep winning I am sure there will be more fans residing outside of WAS state
So to recap:

Hawk fans believe:

None of their free agent defections will hurt the team.
Their players 'stretch the rules', but don't cheat.
That their player DUIs are 'not as bad' as our player's DUIs.
That the Hawks don't have an issue with PEDs.
That the '12th fan' moniker is cool and original.
They have super-human vocal cords and can yell louder than people from other places.
That 'old' super bowl wins don't count as much as new ones.

49er fans believe:

Others should respect the legacy of our team as much as we do.
That the Hawk's secondary grabs and holds on just about every play.
That the '12th fan' and 'twelves' self-gloss is stupid and unoriginal.
That the noise at the Clink is more due to stadium design or piped-in sound than super-human vocal cords.
That the teams are closer in talent than Hawk fans will admit.
That we had a better offseason than the Hawks.
That while some of our players have done very stupid things recently, some players on all teams do stupid things.
That it is harder to repeat than Hawk fans are expecting.

What did I miss?
Originally posted by Existence:
So to recap:

Hawk fans believe:

None of their free agent defections will hurt the team.
Their players 'stretch the rules', but don't cheat.
That their player DUIs are 'not as bad' as our player's DUIs.
That the Hawks don't have an issue with PEDs.
That the '12th fan' moniker is cool and original.
They have super-human vocal cords and can yell louder than people from other places.
That 'old' super bowl wins don't count as much as new ones.

49er fans believe:

Others should respect the legacy of our team as much as we do.
That the Hawk's secondary grabs and holds on just about every play.
That the '12th fan' and 'twelves' self-gloss is stupid and unoriginal.
That the noise at the Clink is more due to stadium design or piped-in sound than super-human vocal cords.
That the teams are closer in talent than Hawk fans will admit.
That we had a better offseason than the Hawks.
That while some of our players have done very stupid things recently, some players on all teams do stupid things.
That it is harder to repeat than Hawk fans are expecting.
Pete Carrol's face is very punchable

What did I miss?

There you go...
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
There you go...

Agreed, but some things go without saying...
Originally posted by Existence:
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
There you go...

Agreed, but some things go without saying...

You forgot that Sherman is the biggest tool, by far, in the league.
Someone should tell 12th.fan.ever that no one is reading is walls of text.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You forgot that Sherman is the biggest tool, by far, in the league.

That one is worth saying again.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You forgot that Sherman is the biggest tool, by far, in the league.

This is true.
The whole "stadium doesn't matter" argument is stupid. The freaking guy that designed it said specifically that it was built to amplify and contain noise.

Guy who designed it > random know-it-alls on the internet.

Chiefs fans are loud. They break sound records in an open air stadium. Seahawks fans may be loud as well, but there is absolutely no denying that the design of the stadium helps.

A lot.