[ Edited by Hoovtrain on Jun 4, 2014 at 9:09 PM ]
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Is Seattle going to have cap casualties?
Jun 4, 2014 at 9:09 PM
- Hoovtrain
- Veteran
- Posts: 30,592
I think SEA will dodge a bullet with Wilson. He is such a saint that he will play for nothing but prayers in his next contract, then donate those prayers to needy children.
Jun 4, 2014 at 9:45 PM
- tondiman
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,042
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Correct, sorry I didn't make that clear enough above...the point I was trying to make is that, like CK's deal, signing an extension prior to the start of his final year, will now force Seattle to do the same...and it will be an even bigger deal, no doubt. The negotiations (like with CK) with Wilson and their FO can start now and parameters are now set at the minimum and they will continue to rise significantly over the next 12 months thanks to CK's deal and the other QB deals coming up between now and then. Taking this into consideration, when that cap hit kicks in, it's going to be huge as you can also see the number of key FA's they also have in 2015 alone (and will have to let walk d/t knowing Wilson's contract effects as that will be hanging over their heads next summer).
Can you imagine what it would be if Seattle (and I'm holding down the vomit as I'm typing this) wins the Super Bowl again (especially if Russel wins the game for them and not coasts on the defense).
Seriously...but it probably won't even matter as there are about 3 more high-profile QB's that will sign behind now and then and that price tag will get even higher and higher and higher.
You guys DO realize that the goal is to win the SB right? not to stay under the cap.. The cap and money don't matter at all if we're not the ones winning.
Who cares what Wilson signs for and who cares what the Seattle cap is. They're not idiots. The only thing to do is beat them.
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:31 AM
- marksbrother
- Member
- Posts: 30
Surely if Wilson's ceiling isnt that high then he wont be getting paid much? Same old niner logic fail.
The niners have spent a lot of money on "potential upside" with Kaep. They say Wilson has reached his ceiling but somehow Kaep hasnt despite CK being in the NFL longer. The nightmare scenario is that Kaep stays on the cusp of being a great player and never quite gets as clutch as Wilson. I fear for you guys that the 3 4th quarter turnovers under pressure are the real Kaep. CK nearly had you one and done by throwing a late pick 6 to Micah Hyde in Green Bay but fortunately he dropped it. This always seems to be conveniently forgot when you talk about being one foot away from the superbowl.
Lets face it the only reason you lot hate Russell Wilson is that deep down you know he is so good. I still cant believe we drafted Tannehill over this guy, not that Wilson would have been given a chance in Miami..
The niners have spent a lot of money on "potential upside" with Kaep. They say Wilson has reached his ceiling but somehow Kaep hasnt despite CK being in the NFL longer. The nightmare scenario is that Kaep stays on the cusp of being a great player and never quite gets as clutch as Wilson. I fear for you guys that the 3 4th quarter turnovers under pressure are the real Kaep. CK nearly had you one and done by throwing a late pick 6 to Micah Hyde in Green Bay but fortunately he dropped it. This always seems to be conveniently forgot when you talk about being one foot away from the superbowl.
Lets face it the only reason you lot hate Russell Wilson is that deep down you know he is so good. I still cant believe we drafted Tannehill over this guy, not that Wilson would have been given a chance in Miami..
[ Edited by marksbrother on Jun 5, 2014 at 12:34 AM ]
Jun 5, 2014 at 4:53 AM
- baltien
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,731
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by Quest4six:
This was in another thread, thought it was relevant here.
Whatever their "cap casualties" were going to be. We screwed them today by signing Kaep at that deal.
And while Dick and Thomas are signing the largest contracts in the NFL at their position, guys like Bowman and Willis are restructuring and taking less money up front (CK) to ensure the rest of the team can stay strong for as long as possible.
I think it's great that while other teams were all but assured their players would take less money for the honor of being allowed to play in a certain city (only to be met by reality), ours are walking the walk and taking cap friendly deals or restructuring their contracts to keep the team together.
Please, tell me again how Harbaugh is a douche and nobody wants to play for him.
[ Edited by baltien on Jun 5, 2014 at 4:55 AM ]
Jun 5, 2014 at 6:43 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,331
Originally posted by NCommand:
Interesting...we just set the market with CK's deal.
So as of today and according to Over The Cap and Sportrac, before Wilson's deal, the Hawks are already committed to $93,353,132M ($89,523,132M for the top 51) to start 2015. This does not include WR Doug Baldwin's deal: Financial terms were not released, but a source told ESPN.com's Terry Blount the deal is for three years at $13 million with $9 million guaranteed. The cap hit should be $3-3.5M there.
With CK's deal and a Superbowl win under Wilson's belt, we have the parameters set now. Wilson will most likely also get a 6-year, $126-130M contract EXTENSION with $63M guaranteed signed before the final year of his contract. The cap hit is all that matters though and I would imagine it probably averages like what we predicted originally at $18M+ per year. So far, we've been spot on.
While Wilson has 2 years left on his deal, every day he plays, his price is going up and this is why I think the Hawks now HAVE to sign him this year; a year early like what we just did with CK. He'll only count $662,434 for 2014 & $798,651 in 2015 so you know his agents are on the phone working on an extension ASAP.
The cap is expected to go up to around $140M for 2015. For rookies, you will need to set aside $4.7M.
So after Wilson & Baldwin's estimated cap hit, you should be at roughly $119.5M left of the estimated $140M ceiling in 2015 leaving you with only $20.5M left to sign the following 2015 FA's.
2015 Free Agents:
Cliff Avril DE
Phillip Adams CB
Stacy Andrews G
James Carpenter G
Heath Farwell ILB
Clint Gresham LS
Tarvaris Jackson QB
Lemuel Jeanpierre C
A.J. Jefferson CB
Jeron Johnson S
Jermaine Kearse WR
Ricardo Lockette WR
Byron Maxwell CB
Anthony McCoy TE
Michael Morgan DE
Taylor Price WR
Terrelle Pryor QB
Sidney Rice WR
Steve Schilling G
O'Brien Schofield OLB
Deshawn Shead S
Malcolm Smith OLB
D'Anthony Smith DT
Greg Van Roten G
Bryan Walters WR
K.J. Wright OLB
Bobby Wagner LB
With additional talks of wanting to extent T Russell Okung ASAP.
Adam Schefter: Just now · Word around NFL is that when Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson get new deals next year, they will come in between $24-$25 million per year.
And look at the base salaries...nothing! And as the base increases, so too does the team cap each year. Genius deal!
The base salary for 2015 is $12.4 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2015.
For 2016, the base salary is $13.9 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2016.
For 2017, the base salary is $16.5 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2017.
For 2018, the base salary is $17 million, $5.2 million of which is guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2018.
The non-guaranteed base salary for 2019 is $18.8 million, and the non-guaranteed base salary for 2020 is $21 million.
In each year from 2015 through 2020, however, there's a catch. A big one. The total payout potentially de-escalates by $2 million per year, with up to $12 million potentially going away.Kaepernick can halt the de-escalation by taking, in any year of the deal, 80 percent of the snaps and if: (1) the 49ers appear in the Super Bowl; or (2) Kaepernick is named a first-team or second-team All-Pro. If he satisfies the requirement in 2014, the full $12 million remains. If he fails in 2014 but succeeds in 2015, $10 million stays. If he does it for the first time in 2016, $8 million remains. If he does it for the first time in 2017, $6 million stays — and so on until 2019, when if he satisfies the requirement that year for the first time $2 million stays in the deal for 2010.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/05/the-full-kaepernick-contract-details/
Jun 5, 2014 at 6:44 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,331
Originally posted by tondiman:
You guys DO realize that the goal is to win the SB right? not to stay under the cap.. The cap and money don't matter at all if we're not the ones winning.
Who cares what Wilson signs for and who cares what the Seattle cap is. They're not idiots. The only thing to do is beat them.
Are you for real? Is this real life?
Jun 5, 2014 at 8:22 AM
- JoRo
- Veteran
- Posts: 302
Ahhh the reason I come here, to see what the niners colored glasses look like.
NCommand, your list is silly. Half of those players won't make it out of training camp this year. I'm also curious where you heard they want to extend Okung ASAP? He has 2 years left on his deal. Even if they extend him, he's already the 10th highest LT contract in the league so it's not like he's on a $500k rookie deal. He's on a pre-CBA ridiculous rookie deal with an $11m cap hit in 2014. I don't know that he's shown anything so far to have earned more than he's making. That could change in the next 2 season but he'd have to stay healthy to do that.
NCommand, your list is silly. Half of those players won't make it out of training camp this year. I'm also curious where you heard they want to extend Okung ASAP? He has 2 years left on his deal. Even if they extend him, he's already the 10th highest LT contract in the league so it's not like he's on a $500k rookie deal. He's on a pre-CBA ridiculous rookie deal with an $11m cap hit in 2014. I don't know that he's shown anything so far to have earned more than he's making. That could change in the next 2 season but he'd have to stay healthy to do that.
Jun 5, 2014 at 9:56 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,331
Originally posted by JoRo:
Ahhh the reason I come here, to see what the niners colored glasses look like.
NCommand, your list is silly. Half of those players won't make it out of training camp this year. I'm also curious where you heard they want to extend Okung ASAP? He has 2 years left on his deal. Even if they extend him, he's already the 10th highest LT contract in the league so it's not like he's on a $500k rookie deal. He's on a pre-CBA ridiculous rookie deal with an $11m cap hit in 2014. I don't know that he's shown anything so far to have earned more than he's making. That could change in the next 2 season but he'd have to stay healthy to do that.
Why DO you come here?
Just need to be up on your team a bit before coming in here and checking on ours..."The Seattle Seahawks could consider signing OT Russell Okung to a contract extension this offseason in order to reduce his 2014 salary cap number. Okung is scheduled to have an $11.24 million salary cap figure next season..." I will leave you to search the reference.
As to your list of FA's? Only stating the facts for you...just listed them all in no order of importance. Obviously some are more pressing than others such as Cliff Avril, Jermaine Kearse, Byron Maxwell, Malcolm Smith, K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner and extending Russell Okung as examples but that is just a baseline. Did anyone expect Maxwell to start and play as well as he has? You'll have a couple more of those kind of players rise between now and next summer as well d/t suspensions or injuries. You don't think a top CB isn't going to command top dollar? Your Superbowl MVP? Your second best pass rusher? You're only other receiver aside from Glass-Joe Harvin & Tateless-Baldwin? Wright, Wagner, etc.?
Here is another deal not originally included in your cap hit...
"...The Seattle Seahawks have signed star safety Kam Chancellor to a multiyear contract extension. The deal is worth $35 million over five years and includes $17 million in guarantees, a source said. The Seahawks formally announced the extension Monday..."
Hopefully, after some time and research into your own team, you'll understand the premise behind this post between the 2 best teams in the NFL "right now." "Right now"...being the operative phrase for you.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 5, 2014 at 9:59 AM ]
Jun 5, 2014 at 10:17 AM
- maltz88
- Veteran
- Posts: 436
Originally posted by baltien:I think it's great that while other teams were all but assured their players would take less money for the honor of being allowed to play in a certain city (only to be met by reality), ours are walking the walk and taking cap friendly deals or restructuring their contracts to keep the team together.
Please, tell me again how Harbaugh is a douche and nobody wants to play for him.
Sooo, they're restructuring the deals that made them the highest paid players at their position when originally signed (highest with Willis, I believe 2nd or 3rd highest with Bowman)?
Don't think that Willis and Bowman are taking less money, or restructuring because they just want to stay where they are and are just generally sweet hearts.
If I'm not mistaken they actually made more money at the time they restructured than they were originally scheduled to. It's just how it's paid out for cap purposes that changes. This again, was required because they set the market as some of the highest paid players at their position under their initial deal.
Don't get me wrong, this is what happens, and I certainly don't fault Willis, Sherman, or Thomas for signing record setting deals. Teams re-sign great players, they set the market, then they restructure after 2-4 years. Just as they did with Willis and Bowman.......and just as Seattle will be doing with Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman in 3 or 4 years from now.
I'd also be surprised if you could find anything from Sherman or Thomas saying they'd take less money to stay in Seattle. The only one I believed that ever uttered anything like that was Tate, who ironically didn't take less money to stay in Seattle.
With regard to the Kaepernick contract. I'm thrilled with it. Hopefully it sets up a new market that works in teams favor and more players start agreeing to incentive laden contracts with several outs for the team. What more could teams and fans ask for?
Hopefully it sets the precedent for Wilson next year when they're allowed to start negotiating.
[ Edited by maltz88 on Jun 5, 2014 at 10:22 AM ]
Jun 5, 2014 at 10:50 AM
- baltien
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,731
Originally posted by maltz88:Sooo, they're restructuring the deals that made them the highest paid players at their position when originally signed (highest with Willis, I believe 2nd or 3rd highest with Bowman)?
Don't think that Willis and Bowman are taking less money, or restructuring because they just want to stay where they are and are just generally sweet hearts.
If I'm not mistaken they actually made more money at the time they restructured than they were originally scheduled to. It's just how it's paid out for cap purposes that changes. This again, was required because they set the market as some of the highest paid players at their position under their initial deal.
Don't get me wrong, this is what happens, and I certainly don't fault Willis, Sherman, or Thomas for signing record setting deals. Teams re-sign great players, they set the market, then they restructure after 2-4 years. Just as they did with Willis and Bowman.......and just as Seattle will be doing with Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman in 3 or 4 years from now.
I'd also be surprised if you could find anything from Sherman or Thomas saying they'd take less money to stay in Seattle. The only one I believed that ever uttered anything like that was Tate, who ironically didn't take less money to stay in Seattle.
With regard to the Kaepernick contract. I'm thrilled with it. Hopefully it sets up a new market that works in teams favor and more players start agreeing to incentive laden contracts with several outs for the team. What more could teams and fans ask for?
Hopefully it sets the precedent for Wilson next year when they're allowed to start negotiating.
I didn't say anything about Willis or Bowman taking less money. My point concerning them is that it's great that we have players who are willing to be flexible with their contracts so the team can stay competitive in free agency. Kap, however, did take less money than he could've gotten had he really pushed for it. For any player to do that, an especially a QB, that's commendable.
I didn't mention Richard Sherman or Earl Thomas at all, but speaking to your points on them I'll just say "k" and leave that there.
Jun 5, 2014 at 11:03 AM
- JoRo
- Veteran
- Posts: 302
Originally posted by NCommand:I come here to see what the niners glasses look like, as I stated. I've since learned that the Seahawks won't even make the playoffs so I don't even need to bother watching their games, I can just go back to being a bandwagon fan (nevermind that PFF just released their roster rankings and Seattle is #1 again).
Originally posted by JoRo:
Ahhh the reason I come here, to see what the niners colored glasses look like.
NCommand, your list is silly. Half of those players won't make it out of training camp this year. I'm also curious where you heard they want to extend Okung ASAP? He has 2 years left on his deal. Even if they extend him, he's already the 10th highest LT contract in the league so it's not like he's on a $500k rookie deal. He's on a pre-CBA ridiculous rookie deal with an $11m cap hit in 2014. I don't know that he's shown anything so far to have earned more than he's making. That could change in the next 2 season but he'd have to stay healthy to do that.
Why DO you come here?
Just need to be up on your team a bit before coming in here and checking on ours..."The Seattle Seahawks could consider signing OT Russell Okung to a contract extension this offseason in order to reduce his 2014 salary cap number. Okung is scheduled to have an $11.24 million salary cap figure next season..." I will leave you to search the reference.
As to your list of FA's? Only stating the facts for you...just listed them all in no order of importance. Obviously some are more pressing than others such as Cliff Avril, Jermaine Kearse, Byron Maxwell, Malcolm Smith, K.J. Wright, Bobby Wagner and extending Russell Okung as examples but that is just a baseline. Did anyone expect Maxwell to start and play as well as he has? You'll have a couple more of those kind of players rise between now and next summer as well d/t suspensions or injuries. You don't think a top CB isn't going to command top dollar? Your Superbowl MVP? Your second best pass rusher? You're only other receiver aside from Glass-Joe Harvin & Tateless-Baldwin? Wright, Wagner, etc.?
Here is another deal not originally included in your cap hit...
"...The Seattle Seahawks have signed star safety Kam Chancellor to a multiyear contract extension. The deal is worth $35 million over five years and includes $17 million in guarantees, a source said. The Seahawks formally announced the extension Monday..."
Hopefully, after some time and research into your own team, you'll understand the premise behind this post between the 2 best teams in the NFL "right now." "Right now"...being the operative phrase for you.
You stated they wanted to restructure Okung ASAP and now your quote says "they could consider". Your list of FA is inconsistent as well. You have both KJ wright and Bobby Wagner on there. Wright has 1 year left on his deal, Wagner is under contract for 2 years. Why are they both on that list? Kam was extended last season, so I'm not sure why that wasn't in the salary cap from before. I'm assuming your WR comments are about Rice, who may not even make they 53 man roster, or more likely will start the season on the PUP list. I think the only position that is more secure than WR is the secondary. The WR corps of Harvin, Baldwin, Richardson and Norwood are all locked up for at least 3 years.
I'm sure if you were to put together a similar list for just about every team in the league it would look similar since you are going off the 90 man roster and shocker, a lot of those guys aren't under long term contracts.
Jun 5, 2014 at 11:16 AM
- Young2Rice
- Veteran
- Posts: 69,963
No class Carrol at it again.
Jun 5, 2014 at 11:19 AM
- baltien
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,731
Originally posted by JoRo:I come here to see what the niners glasses look like, as I stated. I've since learned that the Seahawks won't even make the playoffs so I don't even need to bother watching their games, I can just go back to being a bandwagon fan (nevermind that PFF just released their roster rankings and Seattle is #1 again).
You stated they wanted to restructure Okung ASAP and now your quote says "they could consider". Your list of FA is inconsistent as well. You have both KJ wright and Bobby Wagner on there. Wright has 1 year left on his deal, Wagner is under contract for 2 years. Why are they both on that list? Kam was extended last season, so I'm not sure why that wasn't in the salary cap from before. I'm assuming your WR comments are about Rice, who may not even make they 53 man roster, or more likely will start the season on the PUP list. I think the only position that is more secure than WR is the secondary. The WR corps of Harvin, Baldwin, Richardson and Norwood are all locked up for at least 3 years.
I'm sure if you were to put together a similar list for just about every team in the league it would look similar since you are going off the 90 man roster and shocker, a lot of those guys aren't under long term contracts.
Well, in fairness to the guys that posted that, Seahawks.net has been calling the Niners a fluke and "predicting" our impending doom for going on like four years in a row now.
Go to the NFL talk section over there. Last I checked, about four or five of the top ten threads were Niner related, each chock-full of remarks about it being guaranteed (really this time) that we'll miss the playoffs, Jim Harbaugh's inevitable heart-attack (classy), Aldon Smith's 10-year prison bid (keep dreaming) and numerous references to Kaepernick's genitals.
.....I have no idea why you guys think about Kap's junk so much but hey, it's a free country.
Don't get me wrong, we make fun of the Seahawks, but very few here will deny that they're a good team. And those that do are usually obvious trolls and should be ignored as such.
[ Edited by baltien on Jun 5, 2014 at 11:20 AM ]
Jun 5, 2014 at 11:22 AM
- baltien
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,731
Originally posted by Young2Rice:No class Carrol at it again.
Comments about other teams are only unwarranted and "whining" when it's Jim Harbaugh making them. Everyone else is ok. #seahawkslogic
Jun 5, 2014 at 11:23 AM
- maltz88
- Veteran
- Posts: 436
Originally posted by baltien:Originally posted by maltz88:Sooo, they're restructuring the deals that made them the highest paid players at their position when originally signed (highest with Willis, I believe 2nd or 3rd highest with Bowman)?
Don't think that Willis and Bowman are taking less money, or restructuring because they just want to stay where they are and are just generally sweet hearts.
If I'm not mistaken they actually made more money at the time they restructured than they were originally scheduled to. It's just how it's paid out for cap purposes that changes. This again, was required because they set the market as some of the highest paid players at their position under their initial deal.
Don't get me wrong, this is what happens, and I certainly don't fault Willis, Sherman, or Thomas for signing record setting deals. Teams re-sign great players, they set the market, then they restructure after 2-4 years. Just as they did with Willis and Bowman.......and just as Seattle will be doing with Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman in 3 or 4 years from now.
I'd also be surprised if you could find anything from Sherman or Thomas saying they'd take less money to stay in Seattle. The only one I believed that ever uttered anything like that was Tate, who ironically didn't take less money to stay in Seattle.
With regard to the Kaepernick contract. I'm thrilled with it. Hopefully it sets up a new market that works in teams favor and more players start agreeing to incentive laden contracts with several outs for the team. What more could teams and fans ask for?
Hopefully it sets the precedent for Wilson next year when they're allowed to start negotiating.
I didn't say anything about Willis or Bowman taking less money. My point concerning them is that it's great that we have players who are willing to be flexible with their contracts so the team can stay competitive in free agency. Kap, however, did take less money than he could've gotten had he really pushed for it. For any player to do that, an especially a QB, that's commendable.
I didn't mention Richard Sherman or Earl Thomas at all, but speaking to your points on them I'll just say "k" and leave that there.
You mentioned players restructuring, I assumed you were speaking of Willis & Bowman. Who were you talking about restructuring deals.
My whole point on that (the way I read your post) was that SF players are restructuring deals while Seattle players are demanding top dollar. My point was simply that both teams are doing the exact same thing. Seattle is just a couple years behind SF. They are signing their best players now to high dollar contracts, just as SF did a few years ago with their best players. In a few years, Seattle will be restructuring these contracts just as SF is currently doing.
Also, you didn't mention Sherman or Thomas, but who were you talking about when you mentioned other teams are all but assured players will take less money to stay, only to be met by reality? ........or were you not even talking about Seattle to begin with?