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KC: steal of the offseason?


Originally posted by boast:
you can post stats all day long. they still don't tell the entire story. Alex is far better than Matt Cassel pre-snap at the LOS.

and then we can talk about Matt Cassell and his downward spiral compared to Alex who continues to improve every single year.

Stats don't lie, they've had identical seasons that resulted in KC making it to the playoffs both times. People are acting like Alex is walking on water when he's having a very good Matt Cassel sort of season. Nothing wrong with that but comparing him to Manning when it comes to MVP, c'mon now, that's just dumb.
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
How many years in a row has Cassel been successful though? Huard, Kolb, Cassel, Flynn etc. all have been one year wonders. There is a difference between one good season and 3 in a row.

Not sure how that's relevant, we're talking about this season and the last time the Chiefs made it to the playoffs and interestingly enough, both years the QB's had the exact same numbers. Alex is doing a great job at what he's been doing for a long time, managing games and not making mistakes, just like Cassel did in 2010.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:18 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by boast:
you can post stats all day long. they still don't tell the entire story. Alex is far better than Matt Cassel pre-snap at the LOS.

and then we can talk about Matt Cassell and his downward spiral compared to Alex who continues to improve every single year.

Stats don't lie, they've had identical seasons that resulted in KC making it to the playoffs both times. People are acting like Alex is walking on water when he's having a very good Matt Cassel sort of season. Nothing wrong with that but comparing him to Manning when it comes to MVP, c'mon now, that's just dumb.

I never put him in MVP consideration? all I'm saying is that he's a better QB than Cassell.
[ Edited by boast on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:20 PM ]
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by boast:
you can post stats all day long. they still don't tell the entire story. Alex is far better than Matt Cassel pre-snap at the LOS.

and then we can talk about Matt Cassell and his downward spiral compared to Alex who continues to improve every single year.

Stats don't lie, they've had identical seasons that resulted in KC making it to the playoffs both times. People are acting like Alex is walking on water when he's having a very good Matt Cassel sort of season. Nothing wrong with that but comparing him to Manning when it comes to MVP, c'mon now, that's just dumb.

I never put him in MVP consideration? all I'm saying is that he's a better QB than Cassell.

yeah i'm not sure who did that. there also is no mvp consideration this season. doesnt matter who you are, the leagues glamour qb is on the verge of breaking the passing td's in a season mark. i even LOL'ed at hawk fans 2 weeks ago claiming RW's case for the award.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

Using absolutes will get you in trouble at times! LOL! We have no idea which QB can win a Super Bowl between the two...but only one has reached and lost a Super Bowl. So come on now, CK had a chance to win the game from the five yard line last year and couldn't. Would Smith have won that game? No way to ever know, but somehow I think he makes one of those passes. Just my opinion, obviously, but teams win championships and QB need to be calm, eliminate mistakes and take advantage of opportunities when they come. Both these guys are good enough to win...will they? If their teams put them in a position to do so...maybe!

We would never have been in that position with Alex. Kap very clearly improved the team last year, and was a HUGE factor for opposing defenses to plan for. No chance Smith leads that SB comeback even. He faced the Ravens on the previous Thanksgiving and did nothing. Kap was in his 10th career start, so criticizing his inability to win the Super Bowl when he came within a few feet is ridiculous. Especially since the refs decided to let the Ravens get away with everything...

I cant believe people are really debating me on this. Smith made his only career title game in 2011, and totally crapped the bed against a good D. Now youre saying you dont know whos more capable to win their team a title? After Kap lead a SB comeback change that was a PI away from being successful? Come on...
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

You obviously haven't watched many Chiefs games this year.

lol ive watched every televised one, which has been at least 5. My bro is a Chiefs fan, and we lived in KC for 6 years growing up. Ive followed them for 18 years now. Look at the numbers. Alex is playing safe, conservative football. Jamaal Charles could be league MVP. He leads the offense, and the KC D has kept them in games.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by dj43:
In 2012, the KC QB position had 29 19 TOs. Cassel's rating was 66. Quinn's was 60. Combined 8 TDs. 20 Ints. 9 fumbles lost.

This year Smith has 23 TDs, 6 picks. One fumble lost. Rating of 91. Same receiving crew except for Fasano who has been hurt much of the year.

Still think Alex Smith was not the difference?

He's been solid as a QB, he's literally having the exact same season that Matt Cassel had in 2010 when they were last a playoff team. Some people are get way carried away, he's done well, he's had some very good games and he's had some meh games, all in all he's given them stability at the QB position, but MVP? .

I'm not advocating MVP for Smith although I think he would likely finish about 6th or 7th in the voting. Charles IS in the conversation. He may not beat Manning but he is definitely having that kind of year.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by boast:
you can post stats all day long. they still don't tell the entire story. Alex is far better than Matt Cassel pre-snap at the LOS.

and then we can talk about Matt Cassell and his downward spiral compared to Alex who continues to improve every single year.

Stats don't lie, they've had identical seasons that resulted in KC making it to the playoffs both times. People are acting like Alex is walking on water when he's having a very good Matt Cassel sort of season. Nothing wrong with that but comparing him to Manning when it comes to MVP, c'mon now, that's just dumb.

Not interested in joining in the conversation, other than to say that stats lie all the time. All the time.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Kaepernick is a young QB who landed on a very good team. Because he brought a different style, he enjoyed success, mostly for his running. This year we have seen the league catch up to him and he looks like the second year QB he is - learning, getting a bit better, sometimes falling back a bit, still not the overall team leader/game manager (yes, that is a positive term) that is Alex Smith.

It is not a good thing to fall in love with the way you want someone to be because it often results in you not seeing flaws that you should see.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

You obviously haven't watched many Chiefs games this year.

lol ive watched every televised one, which has been at least 5. My bro is a Chiefs fan, and we lived in KC for 6 years growing up. Ive followed them for 18 years now. Look at the numbers. Alex is playing safe, conservative football. Jamaal Charles could be league MVP. He leads the offense, and the KC D has kept them in games.

Well, I've seen them all, several via Rewind where I can see coach's film. Smith is playing Andy Reid WCO football (the closest living example of Walsh football). In that scheme of things, he has taken quite a few chances, put some balls into VERY tight windows and moved the chains. Along the way he has put OL in position to allow RBs do their thing. That is safe, WINNING football. If you want to consider that to be a negative in some way, be my guest.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

Using absolutes will get you in trouble at times! LOL! We have no idea which QB can win a Super Bowl between the two...but only one has reached and lost a Super Bowl. So come on now, CK had a chance to win the game from the five yard line last year and couldn't. Would Smith have won that game? No way to ever know, but somehow I think he makes one of those passes. Just my opinion, obviously, but teams win championships and QB need to be calm, eliminate mistakes and take advantage of opportunities when they come. Both these guys are good enough to win...will they? If their teams put them in a position to do so...maybe!

We would never have been in that position with Alex. Kap very clearly improved the team last year, and was a HUGE factor for opposing defenses to plan for. No chance Smith leads that SB comeback even. He faced the Ravens on the previous Thanksgiving and did nothing. Kap was in his 10th career start, so criticizing his inability to win the Super Bowl when he came within a few feet is ridiculous. Especially since the refs decided to let the Ravens get away with everything...

I cant believe people are really debating me on this. Smith made his only career title game in 2011, and totally crapped the bed against a good D. Now youre saying you dont know whos more capable to win their team a title? After Kap lead a SB comeback change that was a PI away from being successful? Come on...

A good part of the reason CK had to lead a comeback was because he did squat in the first half.

I can't believe anyone who actually watched the 2011 title game cannot see how NY completely took Crabtree out of the equation leaving Smith with Brett Swain…ant that somehow translates to Smith crapped the bed.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Kaepernick is a young QB who landed on a very good team. Because he brought a different style, he enjoyed success, mostly for his running. This year we have seen the league catch up to him and he looks like the second year QB he is - learning, getting a bit better, sometimes falling back a bit, still not the overall team leader/game manager (yes, that is a positive term) that is Alex Smith.

It is not a good thing to fall in love with the way you want someone to be because it often results in you not seeing flaws that you should see.

Yes, Kap's style made him unstoppable last year and teams caught up to it. Now he's taken on the role of game manager but those explosive plays, including with his legs, are still there and have to be accounted for by other teams. We saw glimpses of that on Sunday and against SEA.

He's underachieved and not met our high expectations, but that doesn't mean he isn't doing good. We are still 10-4 despite playing HALF of our games against top 15 defenses, including FIVE games against the top 5 defenses in the league: #1 Seattle twice, #2 Panthers, #4 Texans, and #5 Saints.

Kap has actually played pretty well when you consider the defenses he's faced. And on another note, Kap has played without Crabtree and looks better since his return.

I wonder if any other team faced the top 4 of the top 5 defenses in the league (Niners being the other top 5 team)?
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Dec 17, 2013 at 2:43 PM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by boast:
you can post stats all day long. they still don't tell the entire story. Alex is far better than Matt Cassel pre-snap at the LOS.

and then we can talk about Matt Cassell and his downward spiral compared to Alex who continues to improve every single year.

Stats don't lie, they've had identical seasons that resulted in KC making it to the playoffs both times. People are acting like Alex is walking on water when he's having a very good Matt Cassel sort of season. Nothing wrong with that but comparing him to Manning when it comes to MVP, c'mon now, that's just dumb.

Not interested in joining in the conversation, other than to say that stats lie all the time. All the time.

x2
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

Using absolutes will get you in trouble at times! LOL! We have no idea which QB can win a Super Bowl between the two...but only one has reached and lost a Super Bowl. So come on now, CK had a chance to win the game from the five yard line last year and couldn't. Would Smith have won that game? No way to ever know, but somehow I think he makes one of those passes. Just my opinion, obviously, but teams win championships and QB need to be calm, eliminate mistakes and take advantage of opportunities when they come. Both these guys are good enough to win...will they? If their teams put them in a position to do so...maybe!

We would never have been in that position with Alex. Kap very clearly improved the team last year, and was a HUGE factor for opposing defenses to plan for. No chance Smith leads that SB comeback even. He faced the Ravens on the previous Thanksgiving and did nothing. Kap was in his 10th career start, so criticizing his inability to win the Super Bowl when he came within a few feet is ridiculous. Especially since the refs decided to let the Ravens get away with everything...

I cant believe people are really debating me on this. Smith made his only career title game in 2011, and totally crapped the bed against a good D. Now youre saying you dont know whos more capable to win their team a title? After Kap lead a SB comeback change that was a PI away from being successful? Come on...

A good part of the reason CK had to lead a comeback was because he did squat in the first half.

I can't believe anyone who actually watched the 2011 title game cannot see how NY completely took Crabtree out of the equation leaving Smith with Brett Swain…ant that somehow translates to Smith crapped the bed.

And he still threw two TDs to Davis.

You wanna see an even less impressive performance by a QB in that title game, look no further than Eli Manning. Both defense played great football in poor weather in that game, and the difference was special teams.