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KC: steal of the offseason?

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.

Not without help. Alex isnt the kind of QB who leads his team to a title. The KC D and Jamaal Charles are why theyre winning. The passing game has been mediocre at best. In 2011 the 49ers had a historically good D. Smith had some nice moments, but he doesnt take over the game.

I was always defending Smith when he was here, but its going SO far overboard to call him a great QB. He can win a title, he'll just never be the reason they won it all.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.

Not without help. Alex isnt the kind of QB who leads his team to a title. The KC D and Jamaal Charles are why theyre winning. The passing game has been mediocre at best. In 2011 the 49ers had a historically good D. Smith had some nice moments, but he doesnt take over the game.

I was always defending Smith when he was here, but its going SO far overboard to call him a great QB. He can win a title, he'll just never be the reason they won it all.
you have got to be kidding. smith didnt didnt take over a game and the D carried him? he out dueled drew brees to get us to the NFC championship game man. and his efficiency was the highest in the league that year I believe. we scored more points with less attempts because smith was really good at moving the ball down the field and he was excellent in the redzone. just because we have a good defense doesnt mean the qb wasnt also very good
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.

Not without help. Alex isnt the kind of QB who leads his team to a title. The KC D and Jamaal Charles are why theyre winning. The passing game has been mediocre at best. In 2011 the 49ers had a historically good D. Smith had some nice moments, but he doesnt take over the game.

I was always defending Smith when he was here, but its going SO far overboard to call him a great QB. He can win a title, he'll just never be the reason they won it all.

They had the KC Defense and Jamal Charles last year. How come they didn't win as much?.....
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.

Not without help. Alex isnt the kind of QB who leads his team to a title. The KC D and Jamaal Charles are why theyre winning. The passing game has been mediocre at best. In 2011 the 49ers had a historically good D. Smith had some nice moments, but he doesnt take over the game.

I was always defending Smith when he was here, but its going SO far overboard to call him a great QB. He can win a title, he'll just never be the reason they won it all.

They had the KC Defense and Jamal Charles last year. How come they didn't win as much?.....

Dysfunctional coaching and inept QB's.

Todd Haley used to use Jamaal Charles like a part time player. Were you not paying attention last season?

KC had 6 pro bowlers last year despite winning 2 games. Smith just provided them with a stable QB.
Originally posted by YungAce:
May be the best deal in NFL history, no joke. Hopefully we take advantage of those picks

Close, but no where near as close as the Herschel Walker trade deal. Cowgirls gave up 1, got a ton in return.
Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Alex Smith MVP? Dude, no chance in hell. Manning is going to break the all-time single season touchdown pass record. Alex is checking down to his running back and letting his defense win games.

That's not really true, dude. No need to minimize his efforts. I don't care to read/hear about MVP awards for Alex either. He is a big part of KC's success, but no, he's not putting up eye-popping numbers. Smith has 62 completions that were in the intermediate to deep range. Pretty certain just by watching that he is doing more than just handing off and checking down.

The KC defense has actually been the liability in 4 of their last 6 games. Prior to that, it was strong defense mixed with well-timed offensive scoring drives, plus good STs. It is a team game after all, and SF fans above all should know how necessary it can be for a yr 1 offense to lean on its great RB, stronger D, and STs.
Originally posted by YungAce:
May be the best deal in NFL history, no joke. Hopefully we take advantage of those picks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

Using absolutes will get you in trouble at times! LOL! We have no idea which QB can win a Super Bowl between the two...but only one has reached and lost a Super Bowl. So come on now, CK had a chance to win the game from the five yard line last year and couldn't. Would Smith have won that game? No way to ever know, but somehow I think he makes one of those passes. Just my opinion, obviously, but teams win championships and QB need to be calm, eliminate mistakes and take advantage of opportunities when they come. Both these guys are good enough to win...will they? If their teams put them in a position to do so...maybe!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 17, 2013 at 6:34 AM ]
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Originally posted by 24plus25er:
AB81 much respect for your brother but that defense is getting way too much credit, a few weeks ago... yes they 75% of the reason the Chiefs were rolling. But two times they had to slow down Denver and couldn't while Alex and the O still put up more than enough points to win the ball game. Yet the Chargers D put it on the Broncos at Mile High. Then yesterday the Raiders rolled up like 30 points.

How can that defense be getting too much credit when they are top 5 in point allowed per game, takeaways & sacks ?

You can't cite 2 games against their division rival (who have been putting up ridiculous numbers on just about everyone) as sound reasoning especially when you look at the entire body of work to date. The KC offense put up 17 points the first game vs Denver and 21 points the second game against a team that has been averaging 38 points per game. What the Chargers did this past Thursday was impressive, as it was the first time all season that Denver scored fewer than 27 points.

The Raiders game and the second game vs Denver, the KC defense has not had Justin Houston who has been a major factor on defense all year, and the second game vs Denver that KC defense had Tamba Hali playing on a sprained wheel. Also ask AFC West fan, the Raiders almost always play better than they are against KC at home.

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Theoretically, if Denver falters in one of their final 2 games, and the Chiefs win out...how is Alex Smith not in the MVP conversation?

The only real on-field difference between the 2-14 last-place Chiefs and the (theoretical) 13-3 first place Chiefs is Alex Smith. Isn't that the definition of "Most Valuable"...a guy who is the main difference between 2 and 13 wins?

If any Chief deserves to be in the conversation for MVP it's Jamaal Charles. 1181 rushing yards, 11 TD's + 65 catches for 655 yards and 7 TD's. Far superior to Alex's numbers. As far as the actual game tape goes, how many games has Alex thrown that team on his shoulders and led them to a win ? Charles has been far more valuable to that offense that Alex has.

As far as on field differences go, Andy Reid has made a very noticeable on field difference with his offensive scheme, play calling and game planning for opponents. ST's stalwart Dave Toub who I reckon might be the best acquisition any team made this offseason has helped the Chiefs become the best ST's unit in the NFL this year, and have been a huge difference maker for them. And then their is Dontari Poe who is playing very well this year and has rarely been subbed out for that defense, he has made a huge leap from year one to year two.

To answer the OP's question, no Alex is not the steal of the offseason, IMHO Dave Toub is. We got the best possible deal for Alex, and both sides have little to complain about at this point.
Alex is a flat out outstanding quarterback, but as good as he is, I don't think he's an MVP candidate. Jamaal Charles though, definitely.
Lets see,
2013 trade down for 3rd rounder in 2014 and Tank Carradine
2014 Second and third round pick TBD.

I think this was a win win.

If you want to talk steals, Boldin for a 6th.

Marshawn Lynch for a 5th.

Now those are steals.
  • fryet
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by fryet:
It should also be noted that the 49ers got the first pick in the 2nd round (at least I think that is the case). So it was basically a 1st round pick anyway. KC still won on the deal, but realistically, the 49ers could not have gotten a better deal.

This. Anyone who says otherwise is nuts. The trade was an absolute steal for the 49ers and I still feel that way. This is a guy that people were openly expecting the 49ers to release and talking heads were discussing 4th or 5th round compensation at best. I have zero doubt that Baalke got the absolute best possible deal that there could have been. Essentially the 49ers ended up with a 2013 2nd rounder(Carradine) and a 2nd and 3rd rounder in 2014. I'm more than content with that.
We are talking about hindsight now. If you trade a future probowler for a 7th round pick, then the deal is a steal for the team that got the probowler. Even if the future probowler wasn't worth a wad of used chewing gum at the time. The 49ers, at the time, were viewed to have won on the deal. They gave up a perceived "bit better than mediocre QB" for basically a low first round pick. Now Alex Smith is playing better, and could potentially be a Pro-Bowl alternate. Looking at past QB trades - Jay Cutler, RG3, etc - a potential Pro-Bowl QB is worth multiple first round picks. If KC gets a Pro Bowler for a low 1st, then they got a steal.

At the time, it is unlikely that anyone would have given up more for Alex Smith. But with the advantage of hindsight, I imagine that teams like the Cleveland Browns, Vikings, Buffalo, Tamp Bay are kicking themselves for not giving up a first.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

You obviously haven't watched many Chiefs games this year.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.

Not without help. Alex isnt the kind of QB who leads his team to a title. The KC D and Jamaal Charles are why theyre winning. The passing game has been mediocre at best. In 2011 the 49ers had a historically good D. Smith had some nice moments, but he doesnt take over the game.

I was always defending Smith when he was here, but its going SO far overboard to call him a great QB. He can win a title, he'll just never be the reason they won it all.

They had the KC Defense and Jamal Charles last year. How come they didn't win as much?.....

^^^^^
Originally posted by fryet:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by fryet:
It should also be noted that the 49ers got the first pick in the 2nd round (at least I think that is the case). So it was basically a 1st round pick anyway. KC still won on the deal, but realistically, the 49ers could not have gotten a better deal.

This. Anyone who says otherwise is nuts. The trade was an absolute steal for the 49ers and I still feel that way. This is a guy that people were openly expecting the 49ers to release and talking heads were discussing 4th or 5th round compensation at best. I have zero doubt that Baalke got the absolute best possible deal that there could have been. Essentially the 49ers ended up with a 2013 2nd rounder(Carradine) and a 2nd and 3rd rounder in 2014. I'm more than content with that.
We are talking about hindsight now. If you trade a future probowler for a 7th round pick, then the deal is a steal for the team that got the probowler. Even if the future probowler wasn't worth a wad of used chewing gum at the time. The 49ers, at the time, were viewed to have won on the deal. They gave up a perceived "bit better than mediocre QB" for basically a low first round pick. Now Alex Smith is playing better, and could potentially be a Pro-Bowl alternate. Looking at past QB trades - Jay Cutler, RG3, etc - a potential Pro-Bowl QB is worth multiple first round picks. If KC gets a Pro Bowler for a low 1st, then they got a steal.

At the time, it is unlikely that anyone would have given up more for Alex Smith. But with the advantage of hindsight, I imagine that teams like the Cleveland Browns, Vikings, Buffalo, Tamp Bay are kicking themselves for not giving up a first.

At least they could console themselves by believing that they wouldn't have the coaching to get the best out of Smith. So far Reid and Pederson have done a great job doing so. Just look at how Smith perform in the pocket. Pocket awareness? Check. Delivering accurate passes under pressure? Check. He has become a better QB this season than in 2012.

If Dorsey wins the GM of the year award, that will be the judgment of this trade.