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KC: steal of the offseason?

I wouldn't say the Chiefs got a steal, per se. The 49ers and Chiefs just got a perfectly equal trade, in my opinion.

A first-round QB is a franchise QB that you build your entire team around, a la Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers. They're guys that, if they go down, the entire team probably tanks.

Alex Smith is not the kind of guy who puts the team on his shoulders and win games, regardless of his surrounding cast. I think he's a great QB who can win with the best of them, but I honestly don't believe he could do the things that the above guys can do. Peyton Manning and the Colts were perennial playoff contenders. When he went down, the Colts had a losing season.

But Alex is definitely worth that second-round pick. He's a great QB, and a big reason why the Chiefs are where they're at.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by daWest:
Well, if you wanna know my opinion, I'm like, well, hell yeah the trade should've yielded more from a 49ers standpoint, especially since we have yet to really see a return on the transaction. But that's me being needy. And also, my knack for perceiving things in retrospect. Had anyone foreseen the effect Andy Reid and Alex would've had on the Chiefs turnaround, of course they would've demanded more, and rightly so. As it stands, the 49ers front office accepted the best deal on the table. Do I hold it against them? Yes, absolutely. In 2 years under the right regime, Alex killed the majority of his critics, won the hearts of doubters, AND after receiving tutelage in SF, he finds himself in a system that suits him even better. I feel the talent evaluators in SF should've been privy to the fact that Alex would be immensely beneficial to an Andy Reid screen-oriented offense, and in turn, pried a 1st round pick out of the deal. And again, that's me, and my perfect 20/20 hindsight vision. But still...damn...we've yet to see a return on the trade minus the cap space and moves made in lieu of.

Some very good insight here.

Andy Reid proved to have better insight into the value of Alex Smith than did anyone in the 49er organization. While Harbaugh was looking for a QB who could drive the ball down the field when his power running offense wouldn't work, and didn't think Smith could do that, Andy Reid saw Alex Smith as the perfect WCO QB for a KC team that had most of the other pieces in place to be a very good team. Since Harbaugh couldn't tell the WCO from the 1930s WPA, he had no idea as to the value of what he had right on his own roster. So while Baalke should have been able to get AT LEAST a 1st round pick for Smith, because he didn't know the value of what he had, Reid got his man for less than the Chiefs would have had to give otherwise for a top 10 NFL starting QB.

As of now, Alex Smith and the Chiefs are filling Arrowhead with happy fans while 49er fans are hoping Kaepernick can accelerate his learning process to make the most of the 49er roster and win the Super Bowl this year because anything less than a Super Bowl win this year will be considered a failed season.

All of this and that.

There were a handful of KC fans spewing the "we better win it all or this trade sux" mantra, but that's being horribly dense. The players and community needed to find its way back to winning football. They needed to put the butts in the seats and give the good KC players a reason to stick around. Drafting a rookie QB and developing him as they suck for another year or two was not acceptable to the coaches, players, or most fans. You want a good starting QB that knows a lil something about winning with a flawed team? Pay to get him... and KC did. Trade will be good for both, I suspect... but for now, clearly KC is ecstatic.

Good points!

Smith wanted to play for Reid, Reid had wanted Smith for some time...a match made in heaven. The niners needed cap space and didn't want a huge mess at QB if CK struggled early in the season. So my view is that the trade was fairly balanced given the vitriol spewed toward Smith by the likes of Jamie Dukes and other members of the NFL braintrust. And...Smith was still somewhat an unknown in that he had played well in the playoffs but then couldn't raise his level of play to beat the NYG. That wasn't all on him but it did raise the question...is he a championship caliber QB? I thought yes, others thought no...thus a limited market and no "elite" tag to elevate value.

His game does not look like Romo's or Cutler's, where some pundits gush because they can do incredible things sometimes...and these pundits do not understand how rare it is to find a guy who doesn't make very many mistakes under pressure.

I loved this trade because it helped the niners stock pile quality players and Smith wound up in a system and with a coach best able to utilize his type of game. NOW GET SOME RECEIVERS!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 16, 2013 at 9:05 PM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Some very good insight here.

Andy Reid proved to have better insight into the value of Alex Smith than did anyone in the 49er organization. While Harbaugh was looking for a QB who could drive the ball down the field when his power running offense wouldn't work, and didn't think Smith could do that, Andy Reid saw Alex Smith as the perfect WCO QB for a KC team that had most of the other pieces in place to be a very good team. Since Harbaugh couldn't tell the WCO from the 1930s WPA, he had no idea as to the value of what he had right on his own roster. So while Baalke should have been able to get AT LEAST a 1st round pick for Smith, because he didn't know the value of what he had, Reid got his man for less than the Chiefs would have had to give otherwise for a top 10 NFL starting QB.

As of now, Alex Smith and the Chiefs are filling Arrowhead with happy fans while 49er fans are hoping Kaepernick can accelerate his learning process to make the most of the 49er roster and win the Super Bowl this year because anything less than a Super Bowl win this year will be considered a failed season.

just go be a Chiefs fan already.
Theoretically, if Denver falters in one of their final 2 games, and the Chiefs win out...how is Alex Smith not in the MVP conversation?

The only real on-field difference between the 2-14 last-place Chiefs and the (theoretical) 13-3 first place Chiefs is Alex Smith. Isn't that the definition of "Most Valuable"...a guy who is the main difference between 2 and 13 wins?
[ Edited by DarkKnight1680 on Dec 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM ]
Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Theoretically, if Denver falters in one of their final 2 games, and the Chiefs win out...how is Alex Smith not in the MVP conversation?

The only real on-field difference between the 2-14 last-place Chiefs and the (theoretical) 13-3 first place Chiefs is Alex Smith. Isn't that the definition of "Most Valuable"...a guy who is the main difference between 2 and 13 wins?

Nope. Its stats + wins. Manning's numbers are far better than Smith's this season.
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Theoretically, if Denver falters in one of their final 2 games, and the Chiefs win out...how is Alex Smith not in the MVP conversation?

The only real on-field difference between the 2-14 last-place Chiefs and the (theoretical) 13-3 first place Chiefs is Alex Smith. Isn't that the definition of "Most Valuable"...a guy who is the main difference between 2 and 13 wins?

Nope. Its stats + wins. Manning's numbers are far better than Smith's this season.

Manning's numbers are better than video game numbers. But Smith's numbers aren't bad except in comparison to Mannings--23 TD, 6 INT? 20 years ago Steve Young had an MVP season with numbers like those.
classic trade that works out for both sides. kc gets the immediate return while the niners win the deal long term.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by dj43:
Some very good insight here.

Andy Reid proved to have better insight into the value of Alex Smith than did anyone in the 49er organization. While Harbaugh was looking for a QB who could drive the ball down the field when his power running offense wouldn't work, and didn't think Smith could do that, Andy Reid saw Alex Smith as the perfect WCO QB for a KC team that had most of the other pieces in place to be a very good team. Since Harbaugh couldn't tell the WCO from the 1930s WPA, he had no idea as to the value of what he had right on his own roster. So while Baalke should have been able to get AT LEAST a 1st round pick for Smith, because he didn't know the value of what he had, Reid got his man for less than the Chiefs would have had to give otherwise for a top 10 NFL starting QB.

As of now, Alex Smith and the Chiefs are filling Arrowhead with happy fans while 49er fans are hoping Kaepernick can accelerate his learning process to make the most of the 49er roster and win the Super Bowl this year because anything less than a Super Bowl win this year will be considered a failed season.

just go be a Chiefs fan already.

I am a football fan, and the 49ers have been my favorite team since before Bill Walsh came here.

I have also followed Kansas City from afar ever since Montana went there. They are my second favorite team. If they play the 49ers in the Super Bowl I will be rooting for the 49ers just as I always have.

That having been said, I agree with what Brent Jones said this afternoon in an interview with Tom Tolbert: "After last season, if the 49ers do not win the Super Bowl this year it will be considered a bad year."
Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Nope. Its stats + wins. Manning's numbers are far better than Smith's this season.

I didn't say that he was the winner, only that he should be in the conversation. But really, that was a playoff team with no QB before Manning. They're about 4 wins better with Manning (and Welker) than they were with Tebow. Chiefs (in this scenario) are 11 games better with Smith than with Cassel. In the "Most Valuable" discussion, Smith has been more valuable to his team than Manning has been to his.
[ Edited by DarkKnight1680 on Dec 16, 2013 at 10:26 PM ]
Originally posted by fryet:
It should also be noted that the 49ers got the first pick in the 2nd round (at least I think that is the case). So it was basically a 1st round pick anyway. KC still won on the deal, but realistically, the 49ers could not have gotten a better deal.

This. Anyone who says otherwise is nuts. The trade was an absolute steal for the 49ers and I still feel that way. This is a guy that people were openly expecting the 49ers to release and talking heads were discussing 4th or 5th round compensation at best. I have zero doubt that Baalke got the absolute best possible deal that there could have been. Essentially the 49ers ended up with a 2013 2nd rounder(Carradine) and a 2nd and 3rd rounder in 2014. I'm more than content with that.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by daWest:
Well, if you wanna know my opinion, I'm like, well, hell yeah the trade should've yielded more from a 49ers standpoint, especially since we have yet to really see a return on the transaction. But that's me being needy. And also, my knack for perceiving things in retrospect. Had anyone foreseen the effect Andy Reid and Alex would've had on the Chiefs turnaround, of course they would've demanded more, and rightly so. As it stands, the 49ers front office accepted the best deal on the table. Do I hold it against them? Yes, absolutely. In 2 years under the right regime, Alex killed the majority of his critics, won the hearts of doubters, AND after receiving tutelage in SF, he finds himself in a system that suits him even better. I feel the talent evaluators in SF should've been privy to the fact that Alex would be immensely beneficial to an Andy Reid screen-oriented offense, and in turn, pried a 1st round pick out of the deal. And again, that's me, and my perfect 20/20 hindsight vision. But still...damn...we've yet to see a return on the trade minus the cap space and moves made in lieu of.

Some very good insight here.

Andy Reid proved to have better insight into the value of Alex Smith than did anyone in the 49er organization. While Harbaugh was looking for a QB who could drive the ball down the field when his power running offense wouldn't work, and didn't think Smith could do that, Andy Reid saw Alex Smith as the perfect WCO QB for a KC team that had most of the other pieces in place to be a very good team. Since Harbaugh couldn't tell the WCO from the 1930s WPA, he had no idea as to the value of what he had right on his own roster. So while Baalke should have been able to get AT LEAST a 1st round pick for Smith, because he didn't know the value of what he had, Reid got his man for less than the Chiefs would have had to give otherwise for a top 10 NFL starting QB.

As of now, Alex Smith and the Chiefs are filling Arrowhead with happy fans while 49er fans are hoping Kaepernick can accelerate his learning process to make the most of the 49er roster and win the Super Bowl this year because anything less than a Super Bowl win this year will be considered a failed season.

I disagree with the majority of this. Smith or Kaep had to go, and the 49ers took the younger and cheaper option. If Smith had been head and shoulders better they would have found a way to keep him. This is not the 80's, and you can't have a Joe Montana and Steve Young on the same team. So they got two second rounders for AS. You can also say they traded AS and a 6th for Boldin and two seconds. Essentially that is what happened, as Smith's salary allowed Boldin to come aboard. Kaep is as good as Alex right now, with so many more intangibles and things to game plan for. He will end up blowing Smith out of the water career wise, and this forum will look back and chuckle. All that being said, I couldn't be happier for Smith and am glad he is playing at such a high level for a playoff team. The classic win / win.

Reid was not smarter than anyone except maybe other GM's around the league that didn't want to take a chance. The 49ers knew what they had in Smith, but Kaep's talent was too big to ignore and a decision had to be made. This is not the pre-salary cap times when you could afford the luxury of two hall of fame QB's on the same team (not that either Kaep of Alex are that ... but I think you get my point).

Bottom line is that Alex Smith did not fit into Harbaugh's offense. He does fit into Andy Reid's. Harbaugh has rolled the dice hoping that Kaepernick will realize his potential and become the elite QB. To this point, he has not. His most consistent contribution has been with his legs. Let's hope his head and arm catch up.
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

lesser qbs have won superbowls. alex is playing great.
Alex was not a steal because we didn't want him. Alex needed a change in environment which happened to workout for him and the team. If the 9ers draft a pair of bozos with those 2nd round picks, then we just fail to maximize our opportunities, but we still have the better QB for our team.
Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Theoretically, if Denver falters in one of their final 2 games, and the Chiefs win out...how is Alex Smith not in the MVP conversation?

The only real on-field difference between the 2-14 last-place Chiefs and the (theoretical) 13-3 first place Chiefs is Alex Smith. Isn't that the definition of "Most Valuable"...a guy who is the main difference between 2 and 13 wins?

Alex Smith MVP? Dude, no chance in hell. Manning is going to break the all-time single season touchdown pass record. Alex is checking down to his running back and letting his defense win games.
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