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KC: steal of the offseason?

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4t9ers:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Also the first niner to collect a SB loss too.

At least we made the dance. I'm over it now and so is Kap. Lets go for #6!

Kaep brought us back, the rest of the team and coaching failed in the superbowl.

Or, we can say that the whole team came up short, not just Kaep, but then again, it goes against certain agendas...
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Niners99:
LOL you have no idea what youre talking about. I love how im a "Smith hater" now...

I was one of the ONLY people on this board who defended Smith for the entire 8 years he was here. I literally never once badmouthed him. Through the darkest years of him being booed out of the stadium because of his horrible OL, horrible coaches, horrible WR, and injuries, I had the common sense to see WHY he wasnt having success. At some point, I think 99% of the 49ers fanbase thought Smith was a total bust and a joke. Its funny that now that hes on another team, the same old pessimistic people are now pointing at the green grass on the KC side of the fence.

Now its flipped the other direction, and people are OVER crediting Smith, and im a "hater" for being realistic and pointing out reasons why he isnt a star QB. wow...

Anyways, Smith was a very good QB. Under Harbaugh he was able to gain confidence and continuity, and we got every bit of potential out of him in 2011 and half of 2012. Now hes moved on to another team that knows how to utilize his abilities, and hes making out well with his trademark style of playing turnover free football.

Alex Smith is NOT the kind of QB that LEADS a team to a Super Bowl title. Hes the kind of QB that, when complemented by a good D and a running game, can help get you to that title. I dont understand why this is such a hard concept to agree with.

I give Smith all the credit in the world for keeping a cool head through all the years that idiotic fans talked crap about him. But for people to act like he was worth MORE than TWO second round picks, or wouldve put us in a better position to win than Colin Kaepernick, is insane.

Kap gives us a whole different dimension to the offense. Hes a weapon that can take over games, and thats exactly why Harbaugh stayed with him last year. He threw a pick 6 on his opening drive in his first ever playoff game, and then responded by destroying one of the best teams in the NFL for the rest of the game. Then he went on the road for the NFC title game and won. Then almost led one of the biggest comebacks in Super Bowl history in his 10th career start. Alex Smith is NOT capable of that.

Sorry if I hit a nerve, but you "give Smith all the credit in the world" for being what? You seem to think you know what Smith can do and can't do in the playoffs when he has played two games in the playoffs...one he led several come from behind drives--including a long run himself and an excellent pass to VD in the final minutes and seconds. The loss was a tough game that was bouncing back and forth based on field position (a Smith/Harbaugh specialty) until three incredibly bad mistakes by a young returner/receiver.


  • Record since having a good coach, as opposed to incredibly incompetent coaches: 30-8-1.
  • His QB rating during those three years: 90.7, 104.1, 91.0
  • 2011, in a new offense, he led six game winning drives--clutch. Since then he hasn't had to come from behind...he's team has won most games.

So now you join the legion of nay-sayers who KNOW that Alex Smith is a "game manager" "limited" "so-so" "not championship caliber" "mediocre" QB who will never win the Super Bowl. Really? You suggest that I take issue with the trade when I have stated in this thread I thought it benefited both and was balanced...so why mislead by trying to lump me in with those who think the team should have received more? It suits your purposes?

As I stated in my original post, when you use absolutes it can come back to bite you as it has all those who said that Smith was a "loser" "inaccurate" "can't run" "can't hit long passes" "can't hit consistently" "can't see the field" "can't lead comebacks" and anything else he has disproved over the past three years. Don't care what kind of a Smith supporter you were, it has nothing to do with the post I take issue with here.

I was responding to your post and then voicing opinions towards everything being said in here. Not everything I said about this thread has to do with you just because you were quoted above.

All im saying is, Smith is not an elite QB. Hes a very good QB, but hes not elite. Are you doing to disagree with that? If you were given a choice of QB's to be on your team entering the playoffs, Smith would not be one of the first 10 youd select. He CAN win you a title, but he needs help. He needs a D, and he needs a running game. He isnt the kind of player that regularly goes out and throws for 300+ yards and 3 TD's when you need it. He isnt the kind of QB that can put the team on his back. If Charles got hurt, that offense would be in deep trouble.

He had a great game against the Saints in the playoffs. He isnt going to be that guy on an every week basis.

His record since 2011 is great, but you know what the common denominator has been since that point? An elite defense. If he had been playing with average defenses for the last 3 years, he would not be 30-8-1.

Anyways, im done being on the side against Alex Smith. I supported him for years here, and think hes a very good QB. I just think Colin Kaepernick was VERY clearly the right choice to be the 49ers QB, and that he will end up being one of the best QB in the NFL for years to come. I also think 2 second round picks for Alex Smith was more than enough, given the value of early draft picks now that they come much cheaper than before.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Niners99:

I was one of the ONLY people on this board who defended Smith for the entire 8 years he was here.

I have no memory of you... and that's pretty telling on its own. Also, all of the absolutes you have used pretty much shine the light just fine. Sorry, is what it is. No worries. It isn't as if any of it matters.

Been posting here regularly for 10 years now. This is the first time ive ever seen your name, so

Absolutes represent an opinion you stand behind. Posting lukewarm opinions is pointless.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Niners99:

I was one of the ONLY people on this board who defended Smith for the entire 8 years he was here.

I have no memory of you... and that's pretty telling on its own. Also, all of the absolutes you have used pretty much shine the light just fine. Sorry, is what it is. No worries. It isn't as if any of it matters.

Been posting here regularly for 10 years now. This is the first time ive ever seen your name, so

Absolutes represent an opinion you stand behind. Posting lukewarm opinions is pointless.

Name-change for me... Mr.McG = oldman9er



As for absolutes, I agree to disagree. Claiming a player "will never" or "always does" etc. comes off as silly, fortune-teller talk. And unless you are a legit fortune-teller, that seems pointless.
Originally posted by Niners99:
I was responding to your post and then voicing opinions towards everything being said in here. Not everything I said about this thread has to do with you just because you were quoted above.

Got you.
All im saying is, Smith is not an elite QB. Hes a very good QB, but hes not elite. Are you doing to disagree with that? If you were given a choice of QB's to be on your team entering the playoffs, Smith would not be one of the first 10 youd select. He CAN win you a title, but he needs help. He needs a D, and he needs a running game. He isnt the kind of player that regularly goes out and throws for 300+ yards and 3 TD's when you need it. He isnt the kind of QB that can put the team on his back. If Charles got hurt, that offense would be in deep trouble.

In my view their are three elite QBs in this league, not ten ahead of Smith. Brady, P Manningham and Brees. They have won the Super Bowl and are consistently good through many changes in their teams. They all play on teams with great coaching...hmm...I wonder if that helped at all? Smith has played at a consistently high level since playing with great coaching...seems to be a parallel.

He had a great game against the Saints in the playoffs. He isn't going to be that guy on an every week basis.
No one is...not Montana, not any QB in NFL memory. So get over that "problem" with Smith and admit that it's OK he is human.


His record since 2011 is great, but you know what the common denominator has been since that point? An elite defense. If he had been playing with average defenses for the last 3 years, he would not be 30-8-1.
Great coaching, and really good defense. No WRs but good RBs. A so-so line and a great TE. So it's a team sport and you want to evaluate him outside the context of the team? I won't do that and that's why absolutes are absolutely a bad way to support arguments!


Anyways, im done being on the side against Alex Smith. I supported him for years here, and think hes a very good QB. I just think Colin Kaepernick was VERY clearly the right choice to be the 49ers QB, and that he will end up being one of the best QB in the NFL for years to come. I also think 2 second round picks for Alex Smith was more than enough, given the value of early draft picks now that they come much cheaper than before.

Colin Kaepernick is an unbelievable athlete who may become an elite QB. His strength, speed, quickness and intelligence just needs to be molded properly and I'm looking forward to it. But I won't assume he will become elite, nor will I assume Smith won't...just too early to make those career judgements. If KC wins the next three Super Bowls and Smith plays well in each...say 90 to 100 QBR...will he then be Elite? Or will it be the defense and the STs?
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 19, 2013 at 7:08 AM ]
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Niners99:

I was one of the ONLY people on this board who defended Smith for the entire 8 years he was here.

I have no memory of you... and that's pretty telling on its own. Also, all of the absolutes you have used pretty much shine the light just fine. Sorry, is what it is. No worries. It isn't as if any of it matters.

Been posting here regularly for 10 years now. This is the first time ive ever seen your name, so

Absolutes represent an opinion you stand behind. Posting lukewarm opinions is pointless.

Name-change for me... Mr.McG = oldman9er



As for absolutes, I agree to disagree. Claiming a player "will never" or "always does" etc. comes off as silly, fortune-teller talk. And unless you are a legit fortune-teller, that seems pointless.

Whoa. I always wondered what happened to oldman9er... Glad you're still around!
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
At least we made the dance. I'm over it now and so is Kap. Lets go for #6!

I'm not.
Chiefs signing Andy Reid is the real steal of the offseason
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,051
Originally posted by Niners99:
Smith is not an elite QB. Hes a very good QB, but hes not elite. Are you doing to disagree with that? If you were given a choice of QB's to be on your team entering the playoffs, Smith would not be one of the first 10 youd select. He CAN win you a title, but he needs help. He needs a D, and he needs a running game. He isnt the kind of player that regularly goes out and throws for 300+ yards and 3 TD's when you need it. He isnt the kind of QB that can put the team on his back.enough, given the value of early draft picks now that they come much cheaper than before.

I've been trying to figure out your thinking on QBs and you have just the first clue as to how you value them. So, please, I would like to see your list of the top 10 current QBs in the league and why you think they are top 10: P Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees are obvious. Who comes next?

I am putting Smith in the top 10 and I will explain after I see your list.

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Chiefs signing Andy Reid is the real steal of the offseason

I agree with this and believe it was the perfect storm of good events happening in KC. Reid getting tired of dealing with the mess in Philly and being saddled with Vick, and then being able to pick his QB for KC by getting a guy he had always appreciated and felt could run his offense. Add that good news to a young group of linemen ready to learn how to play the WCO, Charles ready made for his system, and a defense that is ferocious.

One of the quickest turnarounds in NFL history, much like the niners when they moved from Singletary to Harbaugh. Does a couch matter? More than most will admit! But they also have to have the right situation...and Reid/Harbaugh lucked out!
I love the talk of "Alex can't win you a super bowl alone. He needs a great defense and a decent run game!" Welcome to the NFL! Pretty much every team needs that. Peyton has 1 super bowl, and he had a run game but not the great defense. Brees has one super bowl, with some question marks on D...but he beat Peyton's low-D squad to get it. Rodgers got one in the year his D played great. Brady stopped winning them when his D and run game dried up, but got 3 with coaching and defense and timely kicking. Big Ben has 2 on the strength of his D. Flacco got one the same way. Eli got 2 with his D controlling Brady. Brad Johnson got one, thanks to his D. Same with Dilfer.

You know what kind of QB wins super bowls? The kind with a good D and a solid running game, who does enough to chalk up the W at the end of the day. Of the last 13 SB champs, only 2 or 3 don't really fit that mold and one of those was 2 similar teams facing off. You want to win a super bowl? Build a great D and find a QB who knows how to win/doesn't lose you the game.
[ Edited by DarkKnight1680 on Dec 19, 2013 at 12:58 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Chiefs signing Andy Reid is the real steal of the offseason

I agree with this and believe it was the perfect storm of good events happening in KC. Reid getting tired of dealing with the mess in Philly and being saddled with Vick, and then being able to pick his QB for KC by getting a guy he had always appreciated and felt could run his offense. Add that good news to a young group of linemen ready to learn how to play the WCO, Charles ready made for his system, and a defense that is ferocious.

One of the quickest turnarounds in NFL history, much like the niners when they moved from Singletary to Harbaugh. Does a couch matter? More than most will admit! But they also have to have the right situation...and Reid/Harbaugh lucked out!

somebody tweet Jed and make sure we get a couch this offseason
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Chiefs signing Andy Reid is the real steal of the offseason

Reid is nowhere without Alex Smith. Insert the clown they had at QB last year and you are looking at 2 - 14. Alex is playing the best ball of his entire career. Better than even for us the last few years. Give him some credit.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Whoa. I always wondered what happened to oldman9er... Glad you're still around!



Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Reid is nowhere without Alex Smith. Insert the clown they had at QB last year and you are looking at 2 - 14. Alex is playing the best ball of his entire career. Better than even for us the last few years. Give him some credit.

At first, I was inclined to agree with his sentiment... but you do make a good point. If Reid were starting Cassell, you are very likely looking at a 5-9 team at best. People dump on the first half-of-season KC offense... but it was a significant help in winning games just by (a) taking care of the ball .. and (b) putting together critical scoring drives +/or time-consuming 4th quarter drives to finish opponents off. That's not Cassell... you need the right QB for that.
[ Edited by Mr.Mcgibblets on Dec 19, 2013 at 4:55 AM ]
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Whoa. I always wondered what happened to oldman9er... Glad you're still around!



Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Reid is nowhere without Alex Smith. Insert the clown they had at QB last year and you are looking at 2 - 14. Alex is playing the best ball of his entire career. Better than even for us the last few years. Give him some credit.

At first, I was inclined to agree with his sentiment... but you do make a good point. If Reid were starting Cassell, you are very likely looking at a 5-9 team at best. People dump on the first half-of-season KC offense... but it was a significant help in winning games just by (a) taking care of the ball .. and (b) putting together critical scoring drives +/or time-consuming 4th quarter drives to finish opponents off. That's not Cassell... you need the right QB for that.

QB is a big part of it. And Alex is really playing well. Better than the Alex of 2011 or 2012 even. This is the best Alex I have ever seen. Honestly I didn't know he could be this good. He has grown and gotten better it seems every year. Of course it did take him a long time to learn.... But when he finally got there you have to admit he is much better than he used to be. Plus a big part of their success.