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KC: steal of the offseason?

Originally posted by 4t9ers:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.

Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

Where does everyone come up with this, "CK can win the Super Bowl, blah blah blah". Do you not remember that CK was already there and lost?

The selective memory on this site just blows me away.

If you have time, could you go back and count how many posts have suggested the niners should have received more for Smith? I know that some have said, in hindsight, he is worth more. But I don't recall anyone stating they shouldn't have settled or words to that effect. There may be one or two I missed.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by hofer36:
interesting that chiefs made concerted effort to throw ball downfield more starting with the first broncos game...at that time Smith's completion % was at about 58%...since they have been throwing downfield more in these last 4 games his completion % has gone above 60%---
conclusion? he throws downfield better than many give him credit for, and the fact that he and his new teammates have had some time to play with each other has improved the offenses efficeincy

... still sad to see KC's team drop % at 5th highest... and the offensive penalties? 2nd highest

... and even with that stated? KC is 13th best in offensive efficiency. Not too shabby. Offense could be damn scary good when they get the OL solidified and the WR/TE situation upgraded.

It will be fun to see where Reid can take this team! I hope they stay healthy and I predict they beat Denver is they play again with a healthy D. Just a hunch.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Also the first niner to collect a SB loss too.
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Originally posted by hofer36:
interesting that chiefs made concerted effort to throw ball downfield more starting with the first broncos game...at that time Smith's completion % was at about 58%...since they have been throwing downfield more in these last 4 games his completion % has gone above 60%---
conclusion? he throws downfield better than many give him credit for, and the fact that he and his new teammates have had some time to play with each other has improved the offenses efficeincy

In that 5 game stretch he has just 3 completed passes of over 30 yards. Those downfield shots they have been taking do not illustrate that he is a better downfield passer than given credit for, they illustrate the trust Reid has in his QB, who is a very heady player. They have opened up the offense, and forced teams to give fewer cover 0 and single high safety looks thus easing the dink and dunk WCO that Reid and Smith have been very effective with.

I am not looking to discredit his downfield passing ability nor debate it, but the numbers you are using and the reasoning and conclusions you are drawing are skewed. The need to open up the offense was necessary as they were going into a 3 game stretch against 2 division rivals who had (and still have) top 10 ranked offenses. As far as Alex's completion %, while he is ranks 20th in the league in that category his completion % over the last 6 games has been 63%, showing his growing comfort in the Chiefs offense. With Justin Houston almost ready to return and that growing comfort the Chiefs may surprise some teams in the playoffs.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
In that 5 game stretch he has just 3 completed passes of over 30 yards. Those downfield shots they have been taking do not illustrate that he is a better downfield passer than given credit for, they illustrate the trust Reid has in his QB, who is a very heady player. They have opened up the offense, and forced teams to give fewer cover 0 and single high safety looks thus easing the dink and dunk WCO that Reid and Smith have been very effective with.

I am not looking to discredit his downfield passing ability nor debate it, but the numbers you are using and the reasoning and conclusions you are drawing are skewed. The need to open up the offense was necessary as they were going into a 3 game stretch against 2 division rivals who had (and still have) top 10 ranked offenses. As far as Alex's completion %, while he is ranks 20th in the league in that category his completion % over the last 6 games has been 63%, showing his growing comfort in the Chiefs offense. With Justin Houston almost ready to return and that growing comfort the Chiefs may surprise some teams in the playoffs.

Interesting post! One of the reasons I hate absolutes so much is that so much changes from time to time based on team issues. Smith passed long very effectively in college and high school and has shown the ability in the NFL, but his arm surgery and number of attempts and WRs who can get open down the field may have greatly affected his completion % over the years. So it will be fun to watch him going forward to see if he can take advantage of the opportunities that arise as teams come up to stop Charles.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by hofer36:
interesting that chiefs made concerted effort to throw ball downfield more starting with the first broncos game...at that time Smith's completion % was at about 58%...since they have been throwing downfield more in these last 4 games his completion % has gone above 60%---
conclusion? he throws downfield better than many give him credit for, and the fact that he and his new teammates have had some time to play with each other has improved the offenses efficeincy

In that 5 game stretch he has just 3 completed passes of over 30 yards. Those downfield shots they have been taking do not illustrate that he is a better downfield passer than given credit for, they illustrate the trust Reid has in his QB, who is a very heady player. They have opened up the offense, and forced teams to give fewer cover 0 and single high safety looks thus easing the dink and dunk WCO that Reid and Smith have been very effective with.

I am not looking to discredit his downfield passing ability nor debate it, but the numbers you are using and the reasoning and conclusions you are drawing are skewed. The need to open up the offense was necessary as they were going into a 3 game stretch against 2 division rivals who had (and still have) top 10 ranked offenses. As far as Alex's completion %, while he is ranks 20th in the league in that category his completion % over the last 6 games has been 63%, showing his growing comfort in the Chiefs offense. With Justin Houston almost ready to return and that growing comfort the Chiefs may surprise some teams in the playoffs.

if you watched the games you would note avery dropping a perfect back shoulder pass downfield in the broncos game as well as a well palced pass that was broken up by rodgers-cromartie, jenkins and fasano dropping deep passes downfield in the second broncos game, a well placed pass downfield to bowe in the raiders game which the db deflected, several downfield passes vs chargers that were not completed due to the dbs drawing pass interference penalties---so i stand by my original post
[ Edited by hofer36 on Dec 18, 2013 at 9:46 AM ]
You know, we have been having this debate for the longest and im just gonna call it like it is.

1. Honestly Smith would be more of a ready for the SB QB than Kaep (my opinion). Smith took us to 13-3, and the divisional championship after the catch 2. Everyone's talking well if Smith would of played this better, or that. Then I in turn say ok, it is ok to say that, then make sure we say the same about Kaep. That had Kaep made noise the first half before the blackout, then we might have won. See what I did there, talked about both, and the main conclusion is that until either QB wins the SB neither is actually a SB winning QB. Someone said it before, gotta win one, to be a SB QB first off.

2. Remember when soo many would doubt Smith, and literally tear down everything about him, and constantly on what he cant do. NOw and im not saying any names, i love when people now say something negative, then am like I was one of the main ones pulling for Smith. Not saying any names, but some of you guys are full of crap. When u come into this thread, and say something negative, when it's a positive Smith thread or how KC got a good deal, then it's why u jumping on me, i was his biggest supporter, lmao.

3. Kaep did take us to the SB, but how fast many forget he took over a 6-2 team, not necessarily too shabby. I mean a winning record like that, and thats when u take over. s**t. i would of been happy as hell if i was a QB, and I helped take our team to the SB. Whats funny tho, is many act like Kaep got us there, all on his own, and completely negate the fact that Smith helped him get there.

4. Smith helped lead KC to a playoff spot, and now Kaep is trying to lead us to a playoff spot. 1 QB lost in the divisionals, and 1 QB lost the SB. Now that they both are leading their respective teams, now lets see what they do. Lets see if Smith can make it past the division and gets to the SB. Or lets see if kaep can help lead us back to the SB.

Very interesting times fellas, but honestly you shouldnt belittle either QB. Kaep hasnt shown anything to call him a SB winning QB, just ask Jaws, when he said Kaep would finish being the best in the league. Wow was that a crazy statement. Let him get 3-5 SB's like Montana or Brady, to talk about SB QB's. Smith yes has gone back the post season, now lets see how far he can go. I'm pulling for both to succeed, and would love a KC & SF SB. Would be one of the best yet.

just my two cents
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Originally posted by hofer36:
if you watched the games you would note avery dropping a perfect back shoulder pass downfield in the broncos game as well as a well palced pass that was broken up by rodgers-cromartie, jenkins and fasano dropping deep passes downfield in the second broncos game, a well placed pass downfield to bowe in the raiders game which the db deflected, several downfield passes vs chargers that were not completed due to the dbs drawing pass interference penalties---so i stand by my original post

I am not debating his abilities to throw the ball downfield, but my point still stands. They are not opening up the offense downfield because "Alex is better than given credit for", they are opening it up because in turn it helps the run game, short to intermediate passing game and it creates more space underneath for the screen game.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by hofer36:
if you watched the games you would note avery dropping a perfect back shoulder pass downfield in the broncos game as well as a well palced pass that was broken up by rodgers-cromartie, jenkins and fasano dropping deep passes downfield in the second broncos game, a well placed pass downfield to bowe in the raiders game which the db deflected, several downfield passes vs chargers that were not completed due to the dbs drawing pass interference penalties---so i stand by my original post

I am not debating his abilities to throw the ball downfield, but my point still stands. They are not opening up the offense downfield because "Alex is better than given credit for", they are opening it up because in turn it helps the run game, short to intermediate passing game and it creates more space underneath for the screen game.

Now i dont think either. I think it's opening up more because the offense is getting more in stride. I mean their first year in the offense, so some may be thinking too hard. I just think they have always had the downfield game but for whatever reason its just starting to blossom. I mean in week 1-9. they did their thing, and after they just opened up even more, and probably will open up even more for the playoffs. So I am saying that the talent has always been there, the offense is just getting closer and more refined, meaning more and more plays added. I mean look at the screen game, does anyone really think that they just added that. No. they just chose not to use it before, and did now. So i think it's just the offense growing more together, IMHO
1st of all, the Smith for MVP talk is just silliness. He's elevated his play into the Top 10 QBs (not just based on stats BTW), but not the Top 10 in overall players in the league.

2nd, the trade was pretty fair value to both sides, with the Chiefs currently having a slight benefit in the short term (which I expect to last for a couple years at least). But a slight benefit is not a steal.

3rd, definitely in the Top 5 offseason moves, but unsure if #1.
[ Edited by captveg on Dec 18, 2013 at 11:06 AM ]
It was a win-win trade for both teams.

Two 2nd round draft picks is a very good deal for a then mediocre non-pro bowl starting QB.

It all depends what quality players Baalke nets from those 2nd rounders.
Originally posted by fanmusclecars:
It was a win-win trade for both teams.

Two 2nd round draft picks is a very good deal for a then mediocre non-pro bowl starting QB.

It all depends what quality players Baalke nets from those 2nd rounders.

agree----niners got best offer on table im sure though im thinking a few teams needing qbs may be kicking themselves for not going after smith (clevland for one--with norv turner, comes to mind)...chiefs got a starting qb who has made a difference...and smith got to a place better for him now than remaining with the niners
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by fanmusclecars:
It was a win-win trade for both teams.

Two 2nd round draft picks is a very good deal for a then mediocre non-pro bowl starting QB.

It all depends what quality players Baalke nets from those 2nd rounders.

agree----niners got best offer on table im sure though im thinking a few teams needing qbs may be kicking themselves for not going after smith (clevland for one--with norv turner, comes to mind)...chiefs got a starting qb who has made a difference...and smith got to a place better for him now than remaining with the niners

i don't think any other team would have been a good fit
Originally posted by 4t9ers:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Also the first niner to collect a SB loss too.

At least we made the dance. I'm over it now and so is Kap. Lets go for #6!
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 4t9ers:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Alex Smith isnt going to win you a Super Bowl. Colin Kaepernick can.
nick
Smith has been pretty average this year. Hes relying on his D and his lack of turnovers.

If anyone is suggesting that two 2nd rounders "wasnt enough" for Alex Smith, your delusional.

of course this is just rank speculation at this time--he had chance and didnt---i dont think this statement is true until he shows he can make plays consistently as a pocket passer--you cant build plays off a qb continually escpaing the pocket and looking for the big throw

Kap got his first chance in his first year mostly because of the way he played in those games. Without Kap, we don't get there and we don't even make that epic comeback.

Kap is an NFC champion. Give him some respect.

Also the first niner to collect a SB loss too.

At least we made the dance. I'm over it now and so is Kap. Lets go for #6!
Kaep has given us hope