There are 118 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

question on noncall at end of pats-panthers game

  • vaden
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,039
lol at Jerry Austin saying the ball was "clearly uncatchable." It was thrown almost exactly where Gronk was when he got held. He was pushed out of the play, pushed behind the guy who intercepted the ball. Just a horrible, atrocious, inexcusable non-call.
It is not holding after the QB throws the ball. Then it has to be PI. It can not be PI if the ball is tipped or intercepted before it reaches it's intended receiver. Good Call.
it was uncatchable anyway. the nfl shouldnt call penalties on uncatchable passes.
Good call IMO. They just trying to divert attention away from the Ahmad Brooks call.
You can reroute a receiver, every DB does it all the time. Use your body to force the receiver to keep going up field instead of cutting in.
Gronkowski ran a terrible route and didn't force the route inside (which would of had him in position to try to make a play).
He clearly gave up on the route. Maybe he saw that Brady got baited and the ball was going to be intercepted regardless.
Maybe he played it up to get the flag. Still wasn't as bad as the Super Bowl no call on our last drive (straight bull).

At the end of the day Brady made a terrible pass. And Luke held after the route was already jumped
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
does it even have to be holding...isnt contact past 5 yards a seperate penalty--illegal contact

this kind of reminds me of the end of the superbowl where the refs--all of them--failed to call holding when each raven was purposefully holding niners defenders--

Illegal use of hands could have applied as well, but holding was the better call since Kuechly had his arms wrapped around Gronk.

Here's the deal with the Super Bowl.

Holding in the endzone is an automatic safety, which is what the Ravens were shooting for anyways. If the refs call it, the play still continues and the Ravens punter runs out of bounds with 4 seconds left. Either way, the Ravens give up the safety, take time off the clock and the end result is the same.

The clock doesn't stop when a penalty on the offense is called, the play continues and time is ran off the clock.

That's why those flags weren't thrown, it literally wouldn't have changed anything.

Doesn't mater, the integrity of the game demands it be officiated to the book, in all cases and to the letter, or not at all. You can't determine when to officiate and when not to dependent on your opinion as an official. If this game is to maintain any credibility then the NFL MUST be more consistent in their officiating.

You touch a ref with ANY force at all, you are ejected and slapped with a 15yd penalty. You helmet to helmet hit a receiver on his way out of bounds, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty and an automatic 1st down, you hold on a kick return it is a 5 yard penalty, and if you hold in the endzone it is a flag and a penalty. You as an official don't just hold your flag in your pocket unless someone has instructed you to do so, and if it is abnormal to a regular game and how it is officiated then the game's fairness is called into question and fans are pissed.


We can solve this all over night. Literally over night.

Make sports betting legal. Refs will become real damn consistent real damn quick.

While I'm in 100% agreement with everything you typed, that's not the point I was addressing with that play.

The only reason people bring that play up is because they don't understand the rules. People keep thinking that the play should have been redone due to the holding penalties not being called, which is incorrect.

Trust em, I'm not defending those refs, they were downright horrible that day, just explaining to people why (even if they did throw the flags), it wouldn't have mattered.

i dont know what people you are referring to--my point is simple--if 10 players hold, the refs need to throw a flag because holding is a penalty--not 1 ref did on the play--to me that smacks of incompetence--granted it had nothing to do with the outcome, but a ref shouldnt be weighing whether his throwing a flag will have an effect on the outcome
[ Edited by hofer36 on Nov 19, 2013 at 12:06 AM ]
Originally posted by solidg2000:
You can reroute a receiver, every DB does it all the time. Use your body to force the receiver to keep going up field instead of cutting in.
Gronkowski ran a terrible route and didn't force the route inside (which would of had him in position to try to make a play).
He clearly gave up on the route. Maybe he saw that Brady got baited and the ball was going to be intercepted regardless.
Maybe he played it up to get the flag. Still wasn't as bad as the Super Bowl no call on our last drive (straight bull).

At the end of the day Brady made a terrible pass. And Luke held after the route was already jumped

nfl network guys were of the opinion that if gronkplayed it up like olsen did earlier the flag is thrown
Originally posted by 4ML:
It is not holding after the QB throws the ball. Then it has to be PI. It can not be PI if the ball is tipped or intercepted before it reaches it's intended receiver. Good Call.

thanks for the explanation--now i undestand why it isnt holding or illegal contact
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
You can reroute a receiver, every DB does it all the time. Use your body to force the receiver to keep going up field instead of cutting in.
Gronkowski ran a terrible route and didn't force the route inside (which would of had him in position to try to make a play).
He clearly gave up on the route. Maybe he saw that Brady got baited and the ball was going to be intercepted regardless.
Maybe he played it up to get the flag. Still wasn't as bad as the Super Bowl no call on our last drive (straight bull).

At the end of the day Brady made a terrible pass. And Luke held after the route was already jumped

nfl network guys were of the opinion that if gronkplayed it up like olsen did earlier the flag is thrown

I doubt it. A flag would have been thrown...but once the pass is tipped or intercepted before it reaches it's intended target - you can't call pass-interference. Refs would have gotten together and picked up the flag.

I thought the call on Olsen was 100% correct too. McCourtney definitely held him before the pass was thrown.
lmao, I wonder how the league office will explain this, and also the nonsense of Brooks' "illegal hit". I heard Ray Lewis would pay Brooks' fine.

The NFL is now a sissy league. Can't hit the QB.

Goodell and his refs have way way way too much power in this league. His refs are horrendous. Blowing calls left and right. They need to, and I know it would slow the game down, but it would make rights out of wrongs. But have the ability to double check a penalty. Especially the idiotic ones, I.E. Brooks' Roughing the passer, or tonights non call PI. Or non call PI and Holding in the game in New Orleans.

And of course, Super Bowl sunday, when Crabs was clearly held or PI should of been called. Loved the announcers though. like it's ok to call a PI or Hold on any other call, but end of SB it should slide. Loved it. Frigging idiots. A penalty is a penalty when it is one. Not when the time is right or wrong. NFL needs to get in shape. We are the ones spending our hard earned cash to go to games, buy the Season Tickets, Sunday Ticket, merchandise, both NFL.com, team stores, and inside stadiums. They make a killing off of us. I have never gone to a NFL game, but if it's as bad as a New York Yankees game, then I am sure I would rather not go.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Illegal use of hands could have applied as well, but holding was the better call since Kuechly had his arms wrapped around Gronk.

Here's the deal with the Super Bowl.

Holding in the endzone is an automatic safety, which is what the Ravens were shooting for anyways. If the refs call it, the play still continues and the Ravens punter runs out of bounds with 4 seconds left. Either way, the Ravens give up the safety, take time off the clock and the end result is the same.

The clock doesn't stop when a penalty on the offense is called, the play continues and time is ran off the clock.

That's why those flags weren't thrown, it literally wouldn't have changed anything.

Wouldn't defensive holding in the end zone result in a penalty and the ball given to the offense on the 1 yard line? If defensive holding results in a safety the non-call last night could have been a safety too. I don't think you're correct about defensive holding in the end zone being a safety.
worst part is that they actually threw the flag,then just picked it up. It was pass interference since it happened when the ball was in the air.
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
worst part is that they actually threw the flag,then just picked it up. It was pass interference since it happened when the ball was in the air.

..........but it's not pass interference if the ball is tipped or intercepted before the ball makes it to the receiver.

I think it's actually a good call. Horrible rule.

By the rule, what's to keep a defender from absolutely driving a receiver out of the way while a ball is in the air and letting another defender in the area make the int. unconstested?
They called holding away from the play earlier in the very same game on a pass that was incomplete....kinda hard to pick up the flag for it later and sight uncatchable ball in my opinion.
Originally posted by trogdor:
Wouldn't defensive holding in the end zone result in a penalty and the ball given to the offense on the 1 yard line? If defensive holding results in a safety the non-call last night could have been a safety too. I don't think you're correct about defensive holding in the end zone being a safety.

You're getting the two confused.

If the offense commits any penalty in the endzone, it's an automatic safety. That's what the Ravens should have been flagged for at the end of the Super Bowl last year. It's also why Brady was flagged for Intentional Grounding in the Giants Super Bowl the year prior (he was in the endzone, in the pocket and threw the ball away to avoid giving up a safety).

A safety can only called on the offense when they have possession of the ball, and are tackled, commit a penalty in the endzone, or go out of bounds with the ball in the endzone their team is defending.

If a defensive player commits a penalty in the endzone, the ball is placed at the one yard line (there is no safety since the defense can't be called for a safety)

Originally posted by hofer36:
i dont know what people you are referring to--my point is simple--if 10 players hold, the refs need to throw a flag because holding is a penalty--not 1 ref did on the play--to me that smacks of incompetence--granted it had nothing to do with the outcome, but a ref shouldnt be weighing whether his throwing a flag will have an effect on the outcome

The person who brought it up in this thread is a prime example, it was brought up when it first happened as well.

As I said before, I not disagreeing with you. People are under the assumption that if the flags were thrown, it's a redo of the down, when it's not since there was offensive holding in the endzone.. No matter if the refs threw those flags or not, the outcome of the game is exactly the same. Should they have thrown the flags, yet, does them throwing the flag or not impact the game in any way, shape or form, no.