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question on noncall at end of pats-panthers game

i understand that they justify no interference by saying that gronkowski couldnt catch the pass that was picked off---but clearly kuechly had contact with gronkowski well past 5 yards of the line of scrimmage--isnt that a penalty?
did refs screw niners yet again
Even these guys think it was a terrible week-end !

Defensive Holding very easily could have been called in that situation. Kuechly was holding Gronk outside of 5 yards, which would have made it first and goal on the one, giving New England one last play.

Defensive Holding is not dependent on the offensive player being able to make a play on the ball, which is why it can be called anywhere on the field, even if the QB throws the ball away.
[ Edited by linkboy on Nov 18, 2013 at 8:56 PM ]
I'd say it was a penalty.
Yeah he was held. Refs have no way of knowing if he couldn't have come back to catch the ball if he wasn't held.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Yeah he was held. Refs have no way of knowing if he couldn't have come back to catch the ball if he wasn't held.

That has no bearing on a Defensive Holding call, since it's not dependent on the WR being able to make a play on the ball. The bolded only comes into play if it's Pass Interference.
[ Edited by linkboy on Nov 18, 2013 at 9:23 PM ]
Originally posted by linkboy:
Defensive Holding very easily could have been called in that situation. Kuechly was holding Gronk outside of 5 yards, which would have made it first and goal on the one, giving New England one last play.

Defensive Holding is not dependent on the offensive player being able to make a play on the ball, which is why it can be called anywhere on the field, even if the QB throws the ball away.

does it even have to be holding...isnt contact past 5 yards a seperate penalty--illegal contact

this kind of reminds me of the end of the superbowl where the refs--all of them--failed to call holding when each raven was purposefully holding niners defenders--
If ESPN was gonna be running a replay of Super Bowl XLVII I would have set my DVR.
Originally posted by hofer36:
does it even have to be holding...isnt contact past 5 yards a seperate penalty--illegal contact

this kind of reminds me of the end of the superbowl where the refs--all of them--failed to call holding when each raven was purposefully holding niners defenders--

Illegal use of hands could have applied as well, but holding was the better call since Kuechly had his arms wrapped around Gronk.

Here's the deal with the Super Bowl.

Holding in the endzone is an automatic safety, which is what the Ravens were shooting for anyways. If the refs call it, the play still continues and the Ravens punter runs out of bounds with 4 seconds left. Either way, the Ravens give up the safety, take time off the clock and the end result is the same.

The clock doesn't stop when a penalty on the offense is called, the play continues and time is ran off the clock.

That's why those flags weren't thrown, it literally wouldn't have changed anything.
[ Edited by linkboy on Nov 18, 2013 at 10:02 PM ]
It was a penalty either way and gave the Panthers the unearned win when the Pats should have had 1 play from the 1
[ Edited by WINiner on Nov 18, 2013 at 9:52 PM ]
Definitely a penalty.
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
does it even have to be holding...isnt contact past 5 yards a seperate penalty--illegal contact

this kind of reminds me of the end of the superbowl where the refs--all of them--failed to call holding when each raven was purposefully holding niners defenders--

Illegal use of hands could have applied as well, but holding was the better call since Kuechly had his arms wrapped around Gronk.

Here's the deal with the Super Bowl.

Holding in the endzone is an automatic safety, which is what the Ravens were shooting for anyways. If the refs call it, the play still continues and the Ravens punter runs out of bounds with 4 seconds left. Either way, the Ravens give up the safety, take time off the clock and the end result is the same.

The clock doesn't stop when a penalty on the offense is called, the play continues and time is ran off the clock.

That's why those flags weren't thrown, it literally wouldn't have changed anything.

Doesn't mater, the integrity of the game demands it be officiated to the book, in all cases and to the letter, or not at all. You can't determine when to officiate and when not to dependent on your opinion as an official. If this game is to maintain any credibility then the NFL MUST be more consistent in their officiating.

You touch a ref with ANY force at all, you are ejected and slapped with a 15yd penalty. You helmet to helmet hit a receiver on his way out of bounds, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty and an automatic 1st down, you hold on a kick return it is a 5 yard penalty, and if you hold in the endzone it is a flag and a penalty. You as an official don't just hold your flag in your pocket unless someone has instructed you to do so, and if it is abnormal to a regular game and how it is officiated then the game's fairness is called into question and fans are pissed.


We can solve this all over night. Literally over night.

Make sports betting legal. Refs will become real damn consistent real damn quick.
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by linkboy:
Originally posted by hofer36:
does it even have to be holding...isnt contact past 5 yards a seperate penalty--illegal contact

this kind of reminds me of the end of the superbowl where the refs--all of them--failed to call holding when each raven was purposefully holding niners defenders--

Illegal use of hands could have applied as well, but holding was the better call since Kuechly had his arms wrapped around Gronk.

Here's the deal with the Super Bowl.

Holding in the endzone is an automatic safety, which is what the Ravens were shooting for anyways. If the refs call it, the play still continues and the Ravens punter runs out of bounds with 4 seconds left. Either way, the Ravens give up the safety, take time off the clock and the end result is the same.

The clock doesn't stop when a penalty on the offense is called, the play continues and time is ran off the clock.

That's why those flags weren't thrown, it literally wouldn't have changed anything.

Doesn't mater, the integrity of the game demands it be officiated to the book, in all cases and to the letter, or not at all. You can't determine when to officiate and when not to dependent on your opinion as an official. If this game is to maintain any credibility then the NFL MUST be more consistent in their officiating.

You touch a ref with ANY force at all, you are ejected and slapped with a 15yd penalty. You helmet to helmet hit a receiver on his way out of bounds, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty and an automatic 1st down, you hold on a kick return it is a 5 yard penalty, and if you hold in the endzone it is a flag and a penalty. You as an official don't just hold your flag in your pocket unless someone has instructed you to do so, and if it is abnormal to a regular game and how it is officiated then the game's fairness is called into question and fans are pissed.


We can solve this all over night. Literally over night.

Make sports betting legal. Refs will become real damn consistent real damn quick.

While I'm in 100% agreement with everything you typed, that's not the point I was addressing with that play.

The only reason people bring that play up is because they don't understand the rules. People keep thinking that the play should have been redone due to the holding penalties not being called, which is incorrect.

Trust em, I'm not defending those refs, they were downright horrible that day, just explaining to people why (even if they did throw the flags), it wouldn't have mattered.
To me it seems like the refs are worse than ever, a part of me wants to see instant replay on some of these chitty calls, on the other hand, I worry about the added delays to actual play and things slowing down even more.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
To me it seems like the refs are worse than ever, a part of me wants to see instant replay on some of these chitty calls, on the other hand, I worry about the added delays to actual play and things slowing down even more.

Maybe have the booth upstairs make quick calls on penalties of the 15+ yard variety. For instance, all TDs are reviewed upstairs and they confirm it very quickly. If there is a personal foul in question let them review it upstairs and give the refs down on the field a quick answer.