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Jimmy and Trent fumbled ths one?

Originally posted by sspiker:
He wasn't even a starter at Rutgers. Not hard to justify going with someone who was more familiar with the game and the defensive playbook at the beginning of the season.

This. The team tried to get him onto the practice squad and it didn't work. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. What this whole ordeal has shown me is that Trent Baalke can find talent in any round. We'll get a few good corners in this years draft. I do think the lesson the staff will get from this is that they should trust the young talent Baalke brings in more. He's right a lot more often than he is wrong, and if they make use of that talent, this team would be even more lethal. With that being said, I think Marcus Cooper would do well here, but I don't think he'd be AS good. Our front 7 has been good, but not dominant, mainly because of the injuries. Having a dominating front 7 helps DBs a lot. See Carlos Rogers in 2011. Still a good corner in 2013, but he doesn't look as good.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Some one posted earlier why does Baalke trade for 7th round picks? Because great talent evaluators find talent in every round.
I think people have failed to understand Baalke's track record in the 7th.
Yall just need to happy that Trent, Jim and co. are good enough to find gems in the later rounds. Yes, we missed out on Cooper but there is no way he could've started over the guys we already have. Sorry but its the truth, he is doing good now but he wouldn't have seen the field in KC too if Brandon Flowers hadn't gotten hurt. I believe that Trent and Jim will find more late round gems for next year's draft. The Niners roster is soo deep that we'll lose out on a star or two every year.
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Yall just need to happy that Trent, Jim and co. are good enough to find gems in the later rounds. Yes, we missed out on Cooper but there is no way he could've started over the guys we already have. Sorry but its the truth, he is doing good now but he wouldn't have seen the field in KC too if Brandon Flowers hadn't gotten hurt. I believe that Trent and Jim will find more late round gems for next year's draft. The Niners roster is soo deep that we'll lose out on a star or two every year.

It's too bad that the Niners weren't able to stash Cooper on the practice squad till next year. There will be some turnover based on Rogers age/salary and T. Brown maybe going to free agency. Then again, he was picked up off the practice squad primarily as a ST guy and then got on the field with the Chiefs due to injuries. Se la vie. The Niners will always find talent that may not be good enough for their roster, but other teams would kill for.
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Should have kept over Ray ventrone. Lol.

Ray Ventrone was kept for special teams. That's a very important group.

I know that. Cooper could play special teams as well. A corner with potential that can also play special teams is more valuable than a player that plays strictly special teams, plus we have a boatload of special teams players already.

So you would've kept a 7th rounder who hadn't shown very much in camp or pre-season over a proven ST vet? Why would you have done that?

Because that 7th rounder had some very impressive measurables and potential and because we have quite a few corners only signed through this year. He actually had proven to the coaching staff to be talented, hence why we wanted to stash him on the practice squad.

Obviously in hindsight it's easier to look at what you may have done wrong and I believe this was one of those things. We shouldn't have taken that risk of stashing Cooper on the practice squad. It's not a huge deal, since our secondary has been playing lights out, but it would have been nice to have a guy with potential like that on our team for the future.

Instead, we chose to keep around a guy with special teams only contributions. We more than kept enough ST coverage players and could have afforded to let Ventrone go in favor of Cooper who again can play special teams as well. That's why I would have done that.

Oh and we probably should have been a little more concerned with our return game in special teams, then having so many coverage 'aces'. A solid return man like Lavelle Hawkins also should have been kept over Ventrone.

Don't get me wrong, coverage units on special teams are very important, but there is a point to where you may go overboard on that unit and store one to many guys. Then you end up letting some talented guys go that could contribute in more ways than one and more down the line.

Baalke and Harbaugh aren't free from mistakes. It would have been wiser to keep Cooper instead of Ventrone.
I think as far as CB we had Rodgers Brown Nnamdi Brock and Cox ahead of him. He lasted until the very end of the draft so there were plenty of teams that could have picked him. Who knew that the 49er wannabe Chiefs would snatch up our very late th round project for their own 53 man roster when they passed on drafting him unless they had inside knowledge on how he was practicing in camp ... maybe AJJ perhaps?? It still baffles me that they snagged him when we didn't let him play much during preseason and they declined to draft him. He was a 7th rounder for gods sake
  • Ether
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,494
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
I'd be upset if our secondary was bad, but considering that it's actually the [statistical] strength of our defense this year -- I'm feeling okay.

How fast are you? Can you play special teams?

He's faster than you are
Originally posted by Ether:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
I'd be upset if our secondary was bad, but considering that it's actually the [statistical] strength of our defense this year -- I'm feeling okay.

How fast are you? Can you play special teams?

He's faster than you are

Faster than you too
  • KID9R
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,971
Originally posted by dmatt:
Originally posted by niners94:
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Probably wouldn't even had seen the field with us anyways
From http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/01/best-nfl-rookies-2013-tyrann-mathieu-zac-stacy/
"2. Marcus Cooper, CB, Chiefs: Cooper was drafted in the seventh round this past April … by the 49ers. He failed to crack San Francisco's roster, so Kansas City claimed him off waivers. All he's done there is pick off two passes, break up six and rank as Pro Football Focus' fourth-best cornerback in the league this season. Cooper has been a godsend in the Chiefs' secondary, picking up the slack when Brandon Flowers was out of the lineup. The 49ers have to be kicking themselves for letting him get away."

Fourth best corner in THE LEAGUE. Probably would see the field. We are good just not that good.

He wouldn't have gotten a chance to prove it here.

Exactly. See LaMichael James.

This year, he's also good on ST's
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,134
The 49ers have built a reputation of developing late/UDFA players into quality contributors in the NFL.

Michael Wilhoite - UDFA in 2011, now the top ILB backup on our team that has started a few games due to Willis injury.

Bruce Miller - 7th round pick in 2011, now a pro-bowl caliber FB that is developing into a joker player on offense.

Tramaine Brock - UDFA in 2010, now our #3 CB on defense.

Alex Boone - UDFA in 2009, now a pro-bowl caliber RG.

And look at the ones that have moved on from the 49ers:

Ricky Jean-Francois - 7th round pick in 2009, now a starter for the Colts

Josh Morgan - 6th round pick in 2008, now a starter/role player for the Redskins

Delanie Walker - 6th round pick in 2006, now a starter for the Titans

When you build that reputation, you'll get poached once in a while. Marcus Cooper was just an casualty of a strong roster and front office scouting.
Originally posted by GEEK:
The 49ers have built a reputation of developing late/UDFA players into quality contributors in the NFL.

Michael Wilhoite - UDFA in 2011, now the top ILB backup on our team that has started a few games due to Willis injury.

Bruce Miller - 7th round pick in 2011, now a pro-bowl caliber FB that is developing into a joker player on offense.

Tramaine Brock - UDFA in 2010, now our #3 CB on defense.

Alex Boone - UDFA in 2009, now a pro-bowl caliber RG.

And look at the ones that have moved on from the 49ers:

Ricky Jean-Francois - 7th round pick in 2009, now a starter for the Colts

Josh Morgan - 6th round pick in 2008, now a starter/role player for the Redskins

Delanie Walker - 6th round pick in 2006, now a starter for the Titans

When you build that reputation, you'll get poached once in a while. Marcus Cooper was just an casualty of a strong roster and front office scouting.



This. People need to get over their weird butt-hurt and stop harping on this, its already been driven into the ground and then some. Considering the amount of talent they've acquired, I'm okay with them letting a guy like Cooper go, it happens, isn't the first time, won't be the last time. s**t happens, also, people need to stop slamming Baalke, cuts largely are the domain of various position coaches and so on, if Donatell was lukewarm about Cooper and Seely was pounding the table for Ventrone who is a proven special teams performer and leader, then Seely wins out. With the emergence of Brock, the potential of Morris, the return of Culliver and a buttload of picks in the upcoming draft, I think the 49ers will be just fine at CB.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 2, 2013 at 6:30 PM ]
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
I'm just pissed they waived him for Nnamdi whose basically been warming the bench the entire year. What a waste! Cooper would've been a great addition to our CB tandem this year and possibly the future but now of course, with Brown and Carlos probably being gone next year, CB will be one of our biggest needs. This is why you don't gamble on young talent with potential for old, washed up past their prime players.

Exactly how I feel. Why acquire all these pics and then retain the players I am sure they were hoping he would make the practice squad but he didnt. I hope we dont see this again this year with all they pics they have. They better package those bad boys together move and grab some talent. Seems Balke knows how to draft defense not to worried about that. Wide receiver is a completely different story.
Originally posted by Ntournahu82:
Exactly how I feel. Why acquire all these pics and then retain the players I am sure they were hoping he would make the practice squad but he didnt. I hope we dont see this again this year with all they pics they have. They better package those bad boys together move and grab some talent. Seems Balke knows how to draft defense not to worried about that. Wide receiver is a completely different story.

Asomugha looked good and he is a veteran that once was one of the top CB's in the NFL, it was a worthwhile gamble that he'd get back to his old form, meanwhile Cooper was a very raw rookie that wasn't even a starter in college. Its amazing how hindsight is 20/20 but if you approach the same situation, an experienced veteran who has had some pretty good years in the NFL vs a raw rookie who barely played in college, 100 out of 100 times you go with the veteran. I'm glad for Cooper, hope he has a good career, I'm not going to freak out over it like a teen girl at a Justin Bieber concert though.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 2, 2013 at 6:40 PM ]
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
I'm glad that our front office is good enough to find those gems and our secondary is good enough to bury those gems.

The Chief's front seven are also playing OUT OF THEIR MINDS. So, you know, that helps his performance.


the front 4 helps but cooper has made some great individual plays..i have seen him step in front a wr on a slant and wrestle the ball away for a pick...sprint into the end zone to recover muffed punt for a td...knock ball out of wrs hands on a fade pass in the end zone
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by trellblaze:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Should have kept over Ray ventrone. Lol.

Ray Ventrone was kept for special teams. That's a very important group.

I know that. Cooper could play special teams as well. A corner with potential that can also play special teams is more valuable than a player that plays strictly special teams, plus we have a boatload of special teams players already.

So you would've kept a 7th rounder who hadn't shown very much in camp or pre-season over a proven ST vet? Why would you have done that?

Because that 7th rounder had some very impressive measurables and potential and because we have quite a few corners only signed through this year. He actually had proven to the coaching staff to be talented, hence why we wanted to stash him on the practice squad.

Obviously in hindsight it's easier to look at what you may have done wrong and I believe this was one of those things. We shouldn't have taken that risk of stashing Cooper on the practice squad. It's not a huge deal, since our secondary has been playing lights out, but it would have been nice to have a guy with potential like that on our team for the future.

Instead, we chose to keep around a guy with special teams only contributions. We more than kept enough ST coverage players and could have afforded to let Ventrone go in favor of Cooper who again can play special teams as well. That's why I would have done that.

Oh and we probably should have been a little more concerned with our return game in special teams, then having so many coverage 'aces'. A solid return man like Lavelle Hawkins also should have been kept over Ventrone.

Don't get me wrong, coverage units on special teams are very important, but there is a point to where you may go overboard on that unit and store one to many guys. Then you end up letting some talented guys go that could contribute in more ways than one and more down the line.

Baalke and Harbaugh aren't free from mistakes. It would have been wiser to keep Cooper instead of Ventrone.

Considering the plays our coverage team has made this year and the situations they've put our defenses in, I'll respectfully disagree with you here. The coverage has been so good that they actually make up for the lack of a return game. It's been THAT dominant.

Physical "measurable's" are impressive but do not make a player.

Besides, there are other players who most likely would've been put in Vendrone's hypothetical vacant spot - such as Cam Johnson. Cut Ventrone and Cam Johnson would likely still be here and Cooper still would've been cut.
It is, I think, fair and realistic to regret one that got away. However, without the benefit of hindsight this one would have been very difficult to call. To phrase it as a criticism of the team is simply not supportable, to be polite. The team's record with late picks and UDFA's is remarkably good.