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LT- Johnathan Martin- bullying inside Dolphins locker room

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by English:
Leaving the team and the game he has trained for and which pays his salary is scarcely a hissy fit. It may be an extremely brave act or an extremely desperate one. And you demean it with a stupid phrase.

Hopefully, you are never in a position where such an option appears the only solution. In the meantime keep the personal remarks out of what is a somewhat emotional thread.

what personal remarks?

yes, I think a grown man who got upset and left the team because a few of his teammates pulled an innocent prank on him is enough for me to call it a hissy fit.

I think he thought you were telling me to grow up, but i didnt take it that way, so no harm no foul. But you are seriously downplaying the chain of events that lead to Martin leaving the team. It was not one cafeteria prank gone bad. Put yourself in his shoes. You go through this stuff for over a year, it hasnt gotten better, it has progressively gotten worse, but you still show up to work and attempt to eat with you teammates. Putting myself into Martins shoes i could easily see why the cafeteria prank was the last straw for Martin.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Nov 9, 2013 at 2:40 AM ]
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...

There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.

Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.

I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.

You are right in that disagreeing with the masses is hard. Maybe Martin thought voting him in would make things better. That's definitely a possibility.

As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults. And a locker room is not like school or a regular job. It takes a level of toughness and nastiness to be an O-linemen. For example, when Mathews hit Kap late, Staley jumped in. Staley is like the polar opposite of Richie, but, his nastiness, combined with his physical skills, make Staley a very good player and teammate. AD is intimidating because people know he will play till the whistle and "peel" defenders off the pile.

Would Martin come to the aid of Kap in that situation? It seems like he wouldn't and that's what the dolphin players were trying to help with..Make him unafraid to be like Staley. Obviously, the dolphins may have went overboard, but their intentions seemed good. They were trying to toughen him up so he could have a better career.

Ritchie was out of control, yes, and teams got rid of him. But teams also kept giving him a chance. . I mean, Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and was given chances. Albert Hainsworth stomped a guy in his eye and was given chances after. Amukamaru was carried to a ice tub and thrown in by Tuck i believe. That's battery. We have guys like Steve Smith (team leader) in the league who punched a teammate in the face (assault and battery). Blount punched a guy in the face in college and fought a teammate in tamba bay. Our own Ahmad Brooks battered a teammate.

There are many more examples of teammate on teammate assaults. I don't think what Ritchie has done, as far as we know, ever rose to that level.

Why are Ritchie's actions considered bullying and not the above mentioned? Those incidents mentioned above were handled, like men, in house, as to not disrupt the team. Martin chose to handle it this way. For example, in the Brooks' case, "Divens initially wanted to press charges for the attack, which was witnessed by two other members of the 49ers, but later told police that it "would be bad for both their careers" if he pushed forward against Brooks." This incident could have been worse. Amukamaru handled it in a similar way.


Players know NFL is full of testosterone filled guys with mojo and you either accept that or find another career. That's why many are siding with Ritchie, even though its not PC. If Ritchie didn't use the N-Word, which was a big mistake, this would be a lessor issue. The media blew this up so people who don't even watch football would click on links to the story.

As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes.

Do we have a locker room of stupid? I mean, what Brooks and Aldon did was worse then what Ritchie did.

Most of those examples you are giving are single incidents. Thats why they are different. This was an ongoing thing with Incognito and Martin. It sounds like Martin let go of a lot of single incidents over an extended period of time before deciding to do what he did.

They weren't necessarily all single incidents. Steve Smith punched Ken Lucas and another teammate while watching film. I doubt Smith one day just said i'm going to punch a guy in the film room. There were probably incidents leading up to the altercations. Sounds ongoing to me. We are talking about Smith, a team leader beating up teammates. What is different about Smith's antics vs. Ritchie? Smith sounds way worse. He actually beat guys up.

Now, those guys could of brought up all the hazing, bullying etc... but i don't recall they did. They just handled it in house.
Omg the keep it in the house mentality drives me nuts especially in a work place. We"re talking about frikkin football here lol.

Now if this was some g14 classified fbi group of indiviguals jeopardizing national secrets, maybe.
[ Edited by MoistButtCheeks on Nov 9, 2013 at 2:47 AM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...

There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.

Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.

I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.

You are right in that disagreeing with the masses is hard. Maybe Martin thought voting him in would make things better. That's definitely a possibility.

As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults. And a locker room is not like school or a regular job. It takes a level of toughness and nastiness to be an O-linemen. For example, when Mathews hit Kap late, Staley jumped in. Staley is like the polar opposite of Richie, but, his nastiness, combined with his physical skills, make Staley a very good player and teammate. AD is intimidating because people know he will play till the whistle and "peel" defenders off the pile.

Would Martin come to the aid of Kap in that situation? It seems like he wouldn't and that's what the dolphin players were trying to help with..Make him unafraid to be like Staley. Obviously, the dolphins may have went overboard, but their intentions seemed good. They were trying to toughen him up so he could have a better career.

Ritchie was out of control, yes, and teams got rid of him. But teams also kept giving him a chance. . I mean, Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and was given chances. Albert Hainsworth stomped a guy in his eye and was given chances after. Amukamaru was carried to a ice tub and thrown in by Tuck i believe. That's battery. We have guys like Steve Smith (team leader) in the league who punched a teammate in the face (assault and battery). Blount punched a guy in the face in college and fought a teammate in tamba bay. Our own Ahmad Brooks battered a teammate.

There are many more examples of teammate on teammate assaults. I don't think what Ritchie has done, as far as we know, ever rose to that level.

Why are Ritchie's actions considered bullying and not the above mentioned? Those incidents mentioned above were handled, like men, in house, as to not disrupt the team. Martin chose to handle it this way. For example, in the Brooks' case, "Divens initially wanted to press charges for the attack, which was witnessed by two other members of the 49ers, but later told police that it "would be bad for both their careers" if he pushed forward against Brooks." This incident could have been worse. Amukamaru handled it in a similar way.


Players know NFL is full of testosterone filled guys with mojo and you either accept that or find another career. That's why many are siding with Ritchie, even though its not PC. If Ritchie didn't use the N-Word, which was a big mistake, this would be a lessor issue. The media blew this up so people who don't even watch football would click on links to the story.

As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes.

Do we have a locker room of stupid? I mean, what Brooks and Aldon did was worse then what Ritchie did.

Most of those examples you are giving are single incidents. Thats why they are different. This was an ongoing thing with Incognito and Martin. It sounds like Martin let go of a lot of single incidents over an extended period of time before deciding to do what he did.

They weren't necessarily all single incidents. Steve Smith punched Ken Lucas and another teammate while watching film. I doubt Smith one day just said i'm going to punch a guy in the film room. There were probably incidents leading up to the altercations. Sounds ongoing to me. We are talking about Smith, a team leader beating up teammates. What is different about Smith's antics vs. Ritchie? Smith sounds way worse. He actually beat guys up.

Now, those guys could of brought up all the hazing, bullying etc... but i don't recall they did. They just handled it in house.

So we can assume it was "handled" in house? What of Martins story leads anyone to believe things were "handled" in house. To me it sounds like the guy put up with it for over a year, nothing got "handled" by anyone, and then it finally progressed to the point where it is today. How do we know he never attempted to handle anything in house? Never went to managment? Never attempted to squash the BS coming his way from his teammates?

Do you think Harbaugh would let this go on for over a year? Do you think our locker room would allow it to go on for over a year? I find that hard to believe. Its the Miami dolphins and its leadership that failed to handle it in house, not Martin. But i dont expect anything different from a club that has a guy like Incognito running the locker room.

Also Incognito and his Dad went out to the pubic airing dirty laundry. They went on the defensive instead of keeping it "in house".

double standards and all that jazz.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Nov 9, 2013 at 2:51 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.

Great point. This is why I don't trust the judgement of Miami's players when they stick up for Incognito. These are the same clowns who decided to make him a team captain. Obviously their view of leadership and maturity is distorted. Incognito as a team leader is a fail of epic proportions.

Martin voted for Incognito as well according to teammates.


Which proves that...hmmm...let me think...he is fallible? He is capable of going along to get along? He made an error in judgement? He thought Incognito was actually capable of adult behavior?

We may find out that Martin is a really bad guy who is trying to undermine the Miami team because they made him carry bags. But so far the evidence is that incognito is very, very unstable and immature...and he is a leader on the team. It's as if the niners of the 80's made Haley their undisputed leader and gave him carte blanche to do what he wished. Instead, they used Lott and others to keep Haley under control. Guess which method produced Super Bowls.

Yes, because masterbating during a meeting is "keeping things under control". Walsh was fortunate he didn't have a "Martin" on any of his teams. That's your SB winning formula.

I find it amusing that the ones talking s**t about Incognito are leaving Haley out. Can you imagine what Goodell would find if he investigated the 9er's locker room during the 80's and 90's? Ive read some of the stuff Haley would to to reporters. Anyone think he wouldnt get suspended like Incognito if a reporter blew the whistle? What about Romonowski getting bullied by Haley. How many of Martin's supporters would feel the same about Romo if he blew the whistle and cost us a couple SBs? We even brought Haley back for a second stint. Theres not a single 49ers fan that wouldve been in favor cutting Haley or giving 2 s**ts if he was a bully or not. And wasn't Kevin Gogan basically the Incognito of his time?

Can you imagine the stuff Haley would be texting if it existed back then?
[ Edited by 49erMike on Nov 9, 2013 at 6:20 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

Of course you don't know this, all they are doing at this point is circling wagons and playing CYA at the moment. I wouldn't believe a word of what comes out of the Miami locker room at this point. Guys repeatedly contradicting each other, make claims that they immediately retract, just like Hartline with his claim that Martin played the voicemail for the locker room, which he later said that he "may have been mistaken" about. Just like with the Rams and Buffalo, down the road you'll hear guys come out and say "yeah, he was a total douchebag but we didn't want to make the team look bad."

Another thing I don't get is everything that comes out in favor of Incognito is considered "CYA", while everything coming out in favor of Martin is considered factual in the way the media is portraying it.

And yes, I think incognito is just as big a dbag as Martin is a puss (for NFL football)
[ Edited by 49erMike on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:00 AM ]
If your daughter was a stripper and she came home one day complaining about guys touching her all the time, other dancers making fun of her body, and being bullied into sharing the cost of bottles all the time; what would you tell her?

STOP DANCING! Right?

Or would you tell her that that kind of stuff is inappropriate actions at a work place and get a lawyer?
[ Edited by 49erMike on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:02 AM ]
Originally posted by 49erMike:
Yes, because masterbating during a meeting is "keeping things under control". Walsh was fortunate he didn't have a "Martin" on any of his teams. That's your SB winning formula.

I find it amusing that the ones talking s**t about Incognito are leaving Haley out.

LOL! I brought up Haley as an example...then you accuse me of not wanting to talk about Haley? Your post went off the logic track at that point.

From Young2Rice: "As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes."


I can give your examples of folks not stepping in to stop bullies all day long--at various ages, for all sorts of reasons. Research Catherine "Kitty" Genovese, which is the most famous case in my lifetime, to learn about "bystander apathy."

Further from Young2Rice "As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults."


The Kitty Genovese example above involves people of all ages who could have saved a life if they had only picked up a phone and called police, or answered the door and allowed a victim sanctuary from her eventual killer. She screamed in the street and people closed their blinds...one side of human nature. I asked a group of people last year what they would do in a similar, but less lethal, situation and it was 70/30 that they would mind their own business. This is an example of my use of the term weak minded.

Standing up to bullies sounds easy on paper but it tends to be difficult for many people...sadly, even football players.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:11 AM ]
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by English:
Leaving the team and the game he has trained for and which pays his salary is scarcely a hissy fit. It may be an extremely brave act or an extremely desperate one. And you demean it with a stupid phrase.

Hopefully, you are never in a position where such an option appears the only solution. In the meantime keep the personal remarks out of what is a somewhat emotional thread.

what personal remarks?

yes, I think a grown man who got upset and left the team because a few of his teammates pulled an innocent prank on him is enough for me to call it a hissy fit.

"Like I said, grow up".

And if you think all that happened to Martin is an innocent prank, I don't know what to say to you at all. If it all happened to you, I wonder how you would feel.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49erMike:
Yes, because masterbating during a meeting is "keeping things under control". Walsh was fortunate he didn't have a "Martin" on any of his teams. That's your SB winning formula.

I find it amusing that the ones talking s**t about Incognito are leaving Haley out.

LOL! I brought up Haley as an example...then you accuse me of not wanting to talk about Haley? Your post went off the logic track at that point.

From Young2Rice: "As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes."


I can give your examples of folks not stepping in to stop bullies all day long--at various ages, for all sorts of reasons. Research Catherine "Kitty" Genovese, which is the most famous case in my lifetime, to learn about "bystander apathy."

Further from Young2Rice "As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults."


The Kitty Genovese example above involves people of all ages who could have saved a life if they had only picked up a phone and called police, or answered the door and allowed a victim sanctuary from her eventual killer. She screamed in the street and people closed their blinds...one side of human nature. I asked a group of people last year what they would do in a similar, but less lethal, situation and it was 70/30 that they would mind their own business. This is an example of my use of the term weak minded.

Standing up to bullies sounds easy on paper but it tends to be difficult for many people...sadly, even football players.

You brought up Haley as an example of how the 49ers kept him in contro,l thus leading to Superbowls. That is NOT what happened. Might want to check your logic.
[ Edited by 49erMike on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:20 AM ]
Originally posted by 49erMike:
You brought up Haley as an example of how the 49ers kept him in contro,l thus leading to Superbowls. That is NOT what happend.

1) Haley was/is mentally ill.
2) He was diagnosed and treated.
3) Players he respected were able to keep him from physically hurting coaches and players.
4) He was eventually off the team and marauding elsewhere.
5) He is not an example of 9er virtue.
6) He was not made a "team" enforcer.
7) No one quit the team because of him.
8) Romanowski, your example, punched him...which did not end his harassment.

Not sure what your point is...the niners of the 80s weren't perfect angels? Or should we now use Haley to excuse any current players from conduct code violations? The team bent over backwards to help players, even hiring Harry Edwards...a very progressive step. Miami did the opposite evidently.
Member Milestone: This is post number 200 for 49erMike.
1) So are we sure Incognito isn't mentally ill?
2) I don't understand how you can be 100% sure if Martin was attacked, within the locker room, that NO ONE would've helped.
3) No one quit the team because they didn't have any "Martins" on the team.
4) Romo has said on radio that when he punched Haley, the p***y calling stopped.
5) what about Walsh bringing in Gogan?

My point is you are putting the Walsh locker room on a pedi stool when they were covering up the same issues and had the same type of players on the team.
[ Edited by 49erMike on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:36 AM ]
Originally posted by 49erMike:
1) So are we sure Incognito isn't mentally ill?
2) I don't understand how you can be 100% sure if Martin was attacked, within the locker room, that NO ONE would've helped.
3) No one quit the team because they didn't have any "Martins" on the team.
4) Romo has said on radio that when he punched Haley, the p***y calling stopped.
5) what about Walsh bringing in Gogan?

My point is you are putting the Walsh locker room on a pedi stool when they were covering up the same issues and had the same type of players on the team.

1) I'm pretty sure Incognito is mentally ill and the team management makes him a team leader...just sounds anti-professional to me.
2) Martin was attacked on social media...avenue of cowards and bullies. Did he share this with the team? Don't know but would doubt it.
3) They didn't have to quit the team because the coaches were actively working to correct the problem and they saw this...the weren't left hanging out to dry.
4) Yes, he said he cured the problem...and how did that work out for Seifert and the rest of the team? In Romo's world it's dog eat dog and to hell with anyone who can't stick up for himself. What was Seifert suppose to do? Call Haley out and punch him? Get fired for hitting a player?
5) Walsh had confidence that he could handle almost any player and he usually did. This caused him to give guys a chance and it often worked. I don't recall Gogan being a problem.

I'm not putting the 9er locker room on a pedestal, but the organization. They acted in a professional manner in almost every way and have been studied by management researchers for this. Miami is on the opposite end of professionalism...there is little to none on that team.

My management professors used the 9ers and the Raiders as examples of two ways to manage effectively. Al Davis ran a very informal, one man operation; whereas the 9ers ran an organizational approach, bringing in really sharp people to handle specific issues--Harry Edwards, Policy, MacVey, Walsh and so many other, less high-profile employees helped the team run smoothly. It wasn't until Dr. York came in and dismantled this set-up that the team really plummeted. He went to the Al Davis approach putting Mike Nolan in charge. As we found out...Mike Nolan is not Al Davis.
Double post.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Nov 9, 2013 at 7:55 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 49erMike:
1) So are we sure Incognito isn't mentally ill?
2) I don't understand how you can be 100% sure if Martin was attacked, within the locker room, that NO ONE would've helped.
3) No one quit the team because they didn't have any "Martins" on the team.
4) Romo has said on radio that when he punched Haley, the p***y calling stopped.
5) what about Walsh bringing in Gogan?

My point is you are putting the Walsh locker room on a pedi stool when they were covering up the same issues and had the same type of players on the team.

1) I'm pretty sure Incognito is mentally ill and the team management makes him a team leader...just sounds anti-professional to me.
2) Martin was attacked on social media...avenue of cowards and bullies. Did he share this with the team? Don't know but would doubt it.
3) They didn't have to quit the team because the coaches were actively working to correct the problem and they saw this...the weren't left hanging out to dry.
4) Yes, he said he cured the problem...and how did that work out for Seifert and the rest of the team? In Romo's world it's dog eat dog and to hell with anyone who can't stick up for himself. What was Seifert suppose to do? Call Haley out and punch him? Get fired for hitting a player?
5) Walsh had confidence that he could handle almost any player and he usually did. This caused him to give guys a chance and it often worked. I don't recall Gogan being a problem.

I'm not putting the 9er locker room on a pedestal, but the organization. They acted in a professional manner in almost every way and have been studied by management researchers for this. Miami is on the opposite end of professionalism...there is little to none on that team.

My management professors used the 9ers and the Raiders as examples of two ways to manage effectively. Al Davis ran a very informal, one man operation; whereas the 9ers ran an organizational approach, bringing in really sharp people to handle specific issues--Harry Edwards, Policy, MacVey, Walsh and so many other, less high-profile employees helped the team run smoothly. It wasn't until Dr. York came in and dismantled this set-up that the team really plummeted. He went to the Al Davis approach putting Mike Nolan in charge. As we found out...Mike Nolan is not Al Davis.

- at least we agree Incognito is mentally off too lol
- Martin was "attacked" by texts that were jokes (in very poor taste) there is no telling what kind of stuff Haley would've texted if he was off his meds and that technology existed then.
- or you could argue that no one was as mentally weak as Martin. Matt Millen stated he hated playing with Haley. He could've snapped at any time. Romo could've snapped as well.
- Ihave to say it worked out well for Romo because the harassment stopped for him.
- Kevin Gogan was on SI as the dirtiest player in football, yet Walsh brought him in.

Harry Edwards? Come on. Ask some of the players how they really feel about this guy.

I completely agree that Walsh was nothing but class. But I think Martin would've blown the whistle on That locker room as well. My point is that some people just don't belong in certain occupations. Nolan....s**t *happy thoughts happy thoughts* lol