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LT- Johnathan Martin- bullying inside Dolphins locker room

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
You left out Hitler and Pol Pot.

Falsely accused and misunderstood tbph imho
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The f**k is wrong with america where a guy like Incognito, someone everyone knows is a scum bag, is defended, over a guy like Martin, who may have emotional issues, but has never done harm to anyone? Who was, from the looks of it, attempting to do his best at putting up with it, until it simply became an unworkable situation. Would you sit at your work place and deal with this s**t because of some BS "culture".

Everyone knows Incognito is a scum bag. EVERYONE. If you dont you havent been paying attention. But yet Martin, THE VICTIM, is a bad guy because he handled a bad situation in a mature adult way?

Talking about "man up"? Please. This kid went to Stanford, was a second round draft pick, and has accomplished more in his young life than most do in their entire lifetimes.

Why don't you wait until all the facts are out. No one is denying the fact the Incognito is a dick head.

As it stands right now I am not sure what to make of Martin. Part of me thinks he is just doing this to sue. Only time will tell.

Wrong. Lots of people are indeed denying Incognito is a dick head.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The f**k is wrong with america where a guy like Incognito, someone everyone knows is a scum bag, is defended, over a guy like Martin, who may have emotional issues, but has never done harm to anyone? Who was, from the looks of it, attempting to do his best at putting up with it, until it simply became an unworkable situation. Would you sit at your work place and deal with this s**t because of some BS "culture".

Everyone knows Incognito is a scum bag. EVERYONE. If you dont you havent been paying attention. But yet Martin, THE VICTIM, is a bad guy because he handled a bad situation in a mature adult way?

Talking about "man up"? Please. This kid went to Stanford, was a second round draft pick, and has accomplished more in his young life than most do in their entire lifetimes.

Why don't you wait until all the facts are out. No one is denying the fact the Incognito is a dick head.

As it stands right now I am not sure what to make of Martin. Part of me thinks he is just doing this to sue. Only time will tell.

Wrong. Lots of people are indeed denying Incognito is a dick head.

but how many dick heads do we all know that deserve more attention than a verbal abuser?
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Everyone says it was taken too far!

What exactly was taken too far??

The only thing that's happened has been the leaving the table when Martin came

The voice mails are everyday regular joking and teasing.

The $15,000 Vegas trip EVERYONE PAID INTO. And Martin was supposed to go

Meetings at the strip club? f**k yes I'll have a team meeting at the strip club lol
The guy who complained probably had his wife next to him lol

Which might go a ways towards explaining why they have one of the worst OL's in the NFL. If you're a Dolphins fan and your team has one of the NFL's worst OL's, how happy are you to discover they are having offensive line meetings at a strip club.....surely that'll be very productive.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 9, 2013 at 12:00 AM ]
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

Of course you don't know this, all they are doing at this point is circling wagons and playing CYA at the moment. I wouldn't believe a word of what comes out of the Miami locker room at this point. Guys repeatedly contradicting each other, make claims that they immediately retract, just like Hartline with his claim that Martin played the voicemail for the locker room, which he later said that he "may have been mistaken" about. Just like with the Rams and Buffalo, down the road you'll hear guys come out and say "yeah, he was a total douchebag but we didn't want to make the team look bad."
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 8, 2013 at 11:36 PM ]
Originally posted by LisaTwelve:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

We may never know the whole truth but maybe, just maybe, Martin is the smart and courageous one ~ for walking away.
And those who stayed are the cowards ~ living under Incognito's thumb.

the fact that martin threw a hissy fit because of a harmless cafeteria prank/gag is ridiculous. i get that incognito is a dick but damn, be a man.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...

There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.

Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.

I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.

You are right in that disagreeing with the masses is hard. Maybe Martin thought voting him in would make things better. That's definitely a possibility.

As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults. And a locker room is not like school or a regular job. It takes a level of toughness and nastiness to be an O-linemen. For example, when Mathews hit Kap late, Staley jumped in. Staley is like the polar opposite of Richie, but, his nastiness, combined with his physical skills, make Staley a very good player and teammate. AD is intimidating because people know he will play till the whistle and "peel" defenders off the pile.

Would Martin come to the aid of Kap in that situation? It seems like he wouldn't and that's what the dolphin players were trying to help with..Make him unafraid to be like Staley. Obviously, the dolphins may have went overboard, but their intentions seemed good. They were trying to toughen him up so he could have a better career.

Ritchie was out of control, yes, and teams got rid of him. But teams also kept giving him a chance. . I mean, Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and was given chances. Albert Hainsworth stomped a guy in his eye and was given chances after. Amukamaru was carried to a ice tub and thrown in by Tuck i believe. That's battery. We have guys like Steve Smith (team leader) in the league who punched a teammate in the face (assault and battery). Blount punched a guy in the face in college and fought a teammate in tamba bay. Our own Ahmad Brooks battered a teammate.

There are many more examples of teammate on teammate assaults. I don't think what Ritchie has done, as far as we know, ever rose to that level.

Why are Ritchie's actions considered bullying and not the above mentioned? Those incidents mentioned above were handled, like men, in house, as to not disrupt the team. Martin chose to handle it this way. For example, in the Brooks' case, "Divens initially wanted to press charges for the attack, which was witnessed by two other members of the 49ers, but later told police that it "would be bad for both their careers" if he pushed forward against Brooks." This incident could have been worse. Amukamaru handled it in a similar way.


Players know NFL is full of testosterone filled guys with mojo and you either accept that or find another career. That's why many are siding with Ritchie, even though its not PC. If Ritchie didn't use the N-Word, which was a big mistake, this would be a lessor issue. The media blew this up so people who don't even watch football would click on links to the story.

As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes.

Do we have a locker room of stupid? I mean, what Brooks and Aldon did was worse then what Ritchie did.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Nov 9, 2013 at 12:48 AM ]
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by LisaTwelve:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

We may never know the whole truth but maybe, just maybe, Martin is the smart and courageous one ~ for walking away.
And those who stayed are the cowards ~ living under Incognito's thumb.

the fact that martin threw a hissy fit because of a harmless cafeteria prank/gag is ridiculous. i get that incognito is a dick but damn, be a man.

What hissy fit did he throw? It was Incognito that instantly went on twitter. It was Incognitos dad posting on discussion boards. I fail to see a hissy fit on Martins part. And the cafeteria prank was just the straw that broke the camels back.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...

There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.

Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.

I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.

You are right in that disagreeing with the masses is hard. Maybe Martin thought voting him in would make things better. That's definitely a possibility.

As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults. And a locker room is not like school or a regular job. It takes a level of toughness and nastiness to be an O-linemen. For example, when Mathews hit Kap late, Staley jumped in. Staley is like the polar opposite of Richie, but, his nastiness, combined with his physical skills, make Staley a very good player and teammate. AD is intimidating because people know he will play till the whistle and "peel" defenders off the pile.

Would Martin come to the aid of Kap in that situation? It seems like he wouldn't and that's what the dolphin players were trying to help with..Make him unafraid to be like Staley. Obviously, the dolphins may have went overboard, but their intentions seemed good. They were trying to toughen him up so he could have a better career.

Ritchie was out of control, yes, and teams got rid of him. But teams also kept giving him a chance. . I mean, Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and was given chances. Albert Hainsworth stomped a guy in his eye and was given chances after. Amukamaru was carried to a ice tub and thrown in by Tuck i believe. That's battery. We have guys like Steve Smith (team leader) in the league who punched a teammate in the face (assault and battery). Blount punched a guy in the face in college and fought a teammate in tamba bay. Our own Ahmad Brooks battered a teammate.

There are many more examples of teammate on teammate assaults. I don't think what Ritchie has done, as far as we know, ever rose to that level.

Why are Ritchie's actions considered bullying and not the above mentioned? Those incidents mentioned above were handled, like men, in house, as to not disrupt the team. Martin chose to handle it this way. For example, in the Brooks' case, "Divens initially wanted to press charges for the attack, which was witnessed by two other members of the 49ers, but later told police that it "would be bad for both their careers" if he pushed forward against Brooks." This incident could have been worse. Amukamaru handled it in a similar way.


Players know NFL is full of testosterone filled guys with mojo and you either accept that or find another career. That's why many are siding with Ritchie, even though its not PC. If Ritchie didn't use the N-Word, which was a big mistake, this would be a lessor issue. The media blew this up so people who don't even watch football would click on links to the story.

As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes.

Do we have a locker room of stupid? I mean, what Brooks and Aldon did was worse then what Ritchie did.

Most of those examples you are giving are single incidents. Thats why they are different. This was an ongoing thing with Incognito and Martin. It sounds like Martin let go of a lot of single incidents over an extended period of time before deciding to do what he did.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by LisaTwelve:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

We may never know the whole truth but maybe, just maybe, Martin is the smart and courageous one ~ for walking away.
And those who stayed are the cowards ~ living under Incognito's thumb.

the fact that martin threw a hissy fit because of a harmless cafeteria prank/gag is ridiculous. i get that incognito is a dick but damn, be a man.

What hissy fit did he throw? It was Incognito that instantly went on twitter. It was Incognitos dad posting on discussion boards. I fail to see a hissy fit on Martins part. And the cafeteria prank was just the straw that broke the camels back.

The hissy hit of leaving the team....

Its the tamest prank ever, like i said grow up
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by LisaTwelve:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

We may never know the whole truth but maybe, just maybe, Martin is the smart and courageous one ~ for walking away.
And those who stayed are the cowards ~ living under Incognito's thumb.

the fact that martin threw a hissy fit because of a harmless cafeteria prank/gag is ridiculous. i get that incognito is a dick but damn, be a man.

What hissy fit did he throw? It was Incognito that instantly went on twitter. It was Incognitos dad posting on discussion boards. I fail to see a hissy fit on Martins part. And the cafeteria prank was just the straw that broke the camels back.

The hissy hit of leaving the team....

Its the tamest prank ever, like i said grow up

Leaving the team and the game he has trained for and which pays his salary is scarcely a hissy fit. It may be an extremely brave act or an extremely desperate one. And you demean it with a stupid phrase.

Hopefully, you are never in a position where such an option appears the only solution. In the meantime keep the personal remarks out of what is a somewhat emotional thread.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by LisaTwelve:
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
omg he's such a terrible guy...yet no dolphins teammates other than jonathan martin has a problem with him.

martin needs to grow some balls

We may never know the whole truth but maybe, just maybe, Martin is the smart and courageous one ~ for walking away.
And those who stayed are the cowards ~ living under Incognito's thumb.

the fact that martin threw a hissy fit because of a harmless cafeteria prank/gag is ridiculous. i get that incognito is a dick but damn, be a man.

What hissy fit did he throw? It was Incognito that instantly went on twitter. It was Incognitos dad posting on discussion boards. I fail to see a hissy fit on Martins part. And the cafeteria prank was just the straw that broke the camels back.

The hissy hit of leaving the team....

Its the tamest prank ever, like i said grow up

Because its so grown up to allow employees to be treated like Martin was for an extended period of time? Its grown up for adults to protect and defend this type of behavior because "culture" dictates its alright? How does your work place function? I can guarantee if you had a co worker, or coworkers treating you like Martin was getting treated you wouldn't act so "grown up". Would you feel comfortable going home and looking your wife and kids in the eye knowing that you have been putting up with this kind of nonsense for the sake of "culture". Martin is the grown up in this situation.

The fact that so many people rush to defend a guy like Incognito, and swarm to attack Martin shows how f**ked up the culture is to begin with. "Taunting is sooo messed up its ruining the game, what Golden Tate did was uncalled for and extremely unprofessional, but that stuff going on in the locker room, nothing to see here, that's just part of our "culture" Martin needs to man the f**k up"

This is what that "culture" resembles.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Because its so grown up to allow employees to be treated like Martin was for an extended period of time? Its grown up for adults to protect and defend this type of behavior because "culture" dictates its alright? How does your work place function? I can guarantee if you had a co worker, or coworkers treating you like Martin was getting treated you wouldn't act so "grown up". Would you feel comfortable going home and looking your wife and kids in the eye knowing that you have been putting up with this kind of nonsense for the sake of "culture". Martin is the grown up in this situation.

The fact that so many people rush to defend a guy like Incognito, and swarm to attack Martin shows how f**ked up the culture is to begin with. "Taunting is sooo messed up its ruining the game, what Golden Tate did was uncalled for and extremely unprofessional, but that stuff going on in the locker room, nothing to see here, that's just part of our "culture" Martin needs to man the f**k up"

This is what that "culture" resembles.


an nfl locker room isn't comparable to the average "workplace". martin could have kept this whole incident in house and dealt with it differently. now the whole team has to deal with this circus.
Originally posted by English:
Leaving the team and the game he has trained for and which pays his salary is scarcely a hissy fit. It may be an extremely brave act or an extremely desperate one. And you demean it with a stupid phrase.

Hopefully, you are never in a position where such an option appears the only solution. In the meantime keep the personal remarks out of what is a somewhat emotional thread.

what personal remarks?

yes, I think a grown man who got upset and left the team because a few of his teammates pulled an innocent prank on him is enough for me to call it a hissy fit.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Because its so grown up to allow employees to be treated like Martin was for an extended period of time? Its grown up for adults to protect and defend this type of behavior because "culture" dictates its alright? How does your work place function? I can guarantee if you had a co worker, or coworkers treating you like Martin was getting treated you wouldn't act so "grown up". Would you feel comfortable going home and looking your wife and kids in the eye knowing that you have been putting up with this kind of nonsense for the sake of "culture". Martin is the grown up in this situation.

The fact that so many people rush to defend a guy like Incognito, and swarm to attack Martin shows how f**ked up the culture is to begin with. "Taunting is sooo messed up its ruining the game, what Golden Tate did was uncalled for and extremely unprofessional, but that stuff going on in the locker room, nothing to see here, that's just part of our "culture" Martin needs to man the f**k up"

This is what that "culture" resembles.


an nfl locker room isn't comparable to the average "workplace". martin could have kept this whole incident in house and dealt with it differently. now the whole team has to deal with this circus.

He attempted to keep it "in house" for over a year. If the whole team had handled the situation like adults it would have never been a problem. Instead they want to run their locker room like animals. They shouldn't be surprised when animal control shows up.

And the bold is one of the problems. The NFL is indeed a workplace, regardless of how much they want to pretend they are above societal norms. The argument its different because its the NFL is a cop out. They are grown men, collecting a paycheck to do a job for their employer. The fact that they, as grown men, cant hold themselves to the same societal standards as the rest of us is what is wrong, and no, not every locker room is full of Incognitos running the circus.