Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.
It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.
Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.
Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...
There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.
Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.
I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.
You are right in that disagreeing with the masses is hard. Maybe Martin thought voting him in would make things better. That's definitely a possibility.
As for the classmate example, these aren't kids. They are adults. And a locker room is not like school or a regular job. It takes a level of toughness and nastiness to be an O-linemen. For example, when Mathews hit Kap late, Staley jumped in. Staley is like the polar opposite of Richie, but, his nastiness, combined with his physical skills, make Staley a very good player and teammate
. AD is intimidating because people know he will play till the whistle and "peel" defenders off the pile.
Would Martin come to the aid of Kap in that situation? It seems like he wouldn't and that's what the dolphin players were trying to help with..Make him unafraid to be like Staley. Obviously, the dolphins may have went overboard, but their intentions seemed good. They were trying to toughen him up so he could have a better career.
Ritchie was out of control, yes, and teams got rid of him. But teams also kept giving him a chance. . I mean, Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring and was given chances. Albert Hainsworth stomped a guy in his eye and was given chances after. Amukamaru was carried to a ice tub and thrown in by Tuck i believe. That's battery. We have guys like Steve Smith (team leader) in the league who punched a teammate in the face (assault and battery). Blount punched a guy in the face in college and fought a teammate in tamba bay. Our own Ahmad Brooks battered a teammate.
There are many more examples of teammate on teammate assaults. I don't think what Ritchie has done, as far as we know, ever rose to that level.
Why are Ritchie's actions considered bullying and not the above mentioned? Those incidents mentioned above were handled, like men, in house, as to not disrupt the team. Martin chose to handle it this way. For example, in the Brooks' case, "Divens initially wanted to press charges for the attack, which was witnessed by two other members of the 49ers, but later told police that it "would be bad for both their careers" if he pushed forward against Brooks."
This incident could have been worse. Amukamaru handled it in a similar way.
Players know NFL is full of testosterone filled guys with mojo and you either accept that or find another career. That's why many are siding with Ritchie, even though its not PC. If Ritchie didn't use the N-Word, which was a big mistake, this would be a lessor issue. The media blew this up so people who don't even watch football would click on links to the story.
As for your last statement, why are players who support Ritche "weak minded?" Are the niners' players who supported Brooks when he assaulted a teammate weak minded? What about those who supported Aldon after he wrapped his car around a tree and is being charged with felony weaponds? They are just supporting a teammate in trouble when the media, with no knowledge of the situation, attempt to pass judgement to sell print. The fact that not many on that team are supporting Martin speaks volumes.
Do we have a locker room of stupid? I mean, what Brooks and Aldon did was worse then what Ritchie did.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Nov 9, 2013 at 12:48 AM ]