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LT- Johnathan Martin- bullying inside Dolphins locker room

A football locker room is unlike most places in american society. A different set of rules apply here. I am by no means condoning some of Incognito's off color remarks, but players usually establish the boundries and for most part once established, they are respected by other players.
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Jonathan Martin the new Glenn Coffee

Glen Coffee didn't get bullied
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
An ESPN poll of players suggests that the majority would prefer not to play for Incognito: ESPN asked 72 players (three per team on 24 teams) whom they would rather have as a teammate, Incognito or Jonathan Martin. Only 15 said Incognito, while 34 said Martin and 23 said they wouldn't want either one of them as a teammate.

I agree with the 23. Icognito is a dickwad and Martin handled this like a wuss.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Nov 8, 2013 at 4:01 PM ]
Originally posted by YungAce:
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Jonathan Martin the new Glenn Coffee

Glen Coffee didn't get bullied

he was bullied by the devil
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
It's a man's game, no place in this game for a girly man. Sounds like Martin may be a wuss. This sort of locker room, players policing players, stuff has been going on forever.

The NFL is not for everyone, even if you are 6'5" 300+

You do realize that Martin played for Harbaugh in a power-run offense. I don't know you can call him a wuss.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Heard an interesting thing on the radio on the way home tonight.

The guy that works with JT the Brick (can't think of his name) said that two teams, the 49ers and the Steelers, have had a ban on hazing since the 80s.

I didn't realize that, but I have to say, I'm proud that my team has long ago moved on from this silly BS and decided to approach the game like professionals. One more thing I thank Bill Walsh for....

Yep Bill Walsh was against hazing.

But I guess our internet tough guys (military service people excluded, i won't question their toughness!) know more about teamwork and football

Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.

Great point. This is why I don't trust the judgement of Miami's players when they stick up for Incognito. These are the same clowns who decided to make him a team captain. Obviously their view of leadership and maturity is distorted. Incognito as a team leader is a fail of epic proportions.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.

Great point. This is why I don't trust the judgement of Miami's players when they stick up for Incognito. These are the same clowns who decided to make him a team captain. Obviously their view of leadership and maturity is distorted. Incognito as a team leader is a fail of epic proportions.

Martin voted for Incognito as well according to teammates.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Martin voted for Incognito as well according to teammates.

True, but it's clear Martin was Incognito's prison b***h. He voted for him so Incognito didn't have to smack a hoe.
  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,738
Steve Martin ‏@SteveMartinToGo

Breaking News: Toronto mayor to advise Dolphins on locker room protocol!
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.

Great point. This is why I don't trust the judgement of Miami's players when they stick up for Incognito. These are the same clowns who decided to make him a team captain. Obviously their view of leadership and maturity is distorted. Incognito as a team leader is a fail of epic proportions.

Martin voted for Incognito as well according to teammates.

Which proves that...hmmm...let me think...he is fallible? He is capable of going along to get along? He made an error in judgement? He thought Incognito was actually capable of adult behavior?

We may find out that Martin is a really bad guy who is trying to undermine the Miami team because they made him carry bags. But so far the evidence is that incognito is very, very unstable and immature...and he is a leader on the team. It's as if the niners of the 80's made Haley their undisputed leader and gave him carte blanche to do what he wished. Instead, they used Lott and others to keep Haley under control. Guess which method produced Super Bowls.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Steve Martin ‏@SteveMartinToGo

Breaking News: Toronto mayor to advise Dolphins on locker room protocol!

Now that's perfect!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Spent a few years in the service and the hazing was always work related not personal. Doing the dirty jobs, worst duty schedule, and worst accommodations...but never this sort of stuff.

One of the many reasons I respected Walsh was his stance on hazing...very informed and professional. The Miami situation happens when your leaders are the least mature or evolved or the group. That comes from management and is one reason I did respect Nolan when he took over as coach of the niners. Though I lost respect for him after several stupid incidents mocking injured players, he did try to bring in high character players.

Why would this likely not happen on the 9ers? Gore, Willis, J Smith, Staley...the vets on this team are all solid professionals too busy doing their jobs at the highest level to be this idiotic.

Great point. This is why I don't trust the judgement of Miami's players when they stick up for Incognito. These are the same clowns who decided to make him a team captain. Obviously their view of leadership and maturity is distorted. Incognito as a team leader is a fail of epic proportions.

Martin voted for Incognito as well according to teammates.

Which proves that...hmmm...let me think...he is fallible? He is capable of going along to get along? He made an error in judgement? He thought Incognito was actually capable of adult behavior?

We may find out that Martin is a really bad guy who is trying to undermine the Miami team because they made him carry bags. But so far the evidence is that incognito is very, very unstable and immature...and he is a leader on the team. It's as if the niners of the 80's made Haley their undisputed leader and gave him carte blanche to do what he wished. Instead, they used Lott and others to keep Haley under control. Guess which method produced Super Bowls.

It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
It doesn't prove anything. But it tends to show he liked Icognito, at least at some point. Which was corroborated by other teammates.

It surely doesn't prove that he's fallible, and doesn't even tend to show that absent any corroboration.

Yeah, Incognito may be unstable and immature, but there were other guys in the locker room who disagree with you or are able to tolerate his behavior. Enough guys to vote him in. I doubt they are all fallible.

Haley was diagnosed with bi-polar and would jack off at meetings and flung dog poop at Seifert. That's a little different then leaving a nasty voicemails and getting up at a table when Martin sat down...

There are work place environments that would make disagreeing terribly uncomfortable. I've always chosen to not work in those environments and have had the luxury of being able to pick my spots. A draftee is stuck unless he does a John Elway...which is almost impossible...except for John Elway.

Tolerating behavior is a tricky thing...many bullies drive kids to suicide every year and no one steps in and stops them because it is difficult to do so. I was lucky that my parents loathed bullies and taught me to stick up for my fellow classmates...even if I did not personally like them. I know a kid who was brutally beaten, almost to death, while his classmates were too frightened to step up and stop the bully. There were many "nice kids" among the crowd of watchers...they just didn't have the courage to stick their necks out. If Incognito is so out of control that numerous football factories couldn't tolerate his behavior I'm left to believe he is in the wrong until I have evidence to the contrary.

I don't care how many weak minded teammates support him, just proves my point that an atmosphere of stupid has been created on this team and in this locker room. I will still admit I could be wrong...just think the majority of what I've read points to this conclusion.
  • vaden
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,010
For Cam Cleeland, hazing incident altered his NFL career — and life

excerpt:

"Coach [Mike] Ditka gave me a speech as soon as it was done," he recalled. "He was like, 'Oh, man, you should have just popped those guys in the mouth.' I said, 'Coach, there were 60 of them.'"

Seven years later, when Cleeland was playing for St. Louis, the Rams drafted Incognito, who had been kicked off his college teams at Nebraska and Oregon.
"I'm not afraid to say that he was an immature, unrealistic scumbag," Cleeland said. "When it came down to it, he had no personality, he was a locker-room cancer, and he just wanted to fight everybody all the time. It was bizarre beyond belief."

Just as he shakes his head at Ditka's suggestion he simply should have thrown punches, he scoffs at the reaction some have about the situation in Miami.
"Any NFL player that gives Martin a hard time — I don't know him — but any guy who says, 'This guy should have been a tough guy, should have stood up to him,' it's BS," he said.

"I don't care if you're a good guy or not, you don't deserve that kind of treatment in any workplace. You've got to be tough. We're all tough guys. But in the end, you're still a human being."

What the NFL lacks, Cleeland said, is a culture in which players can be free to express their concerns, as they would be able to do in a normal workplace. NFL players are warriors, and admitting any hint of weakness simply isn't allowed.

"This guy [Martin] was probably feeling threatened and bothered by [Incognito] from day one," Cleeland said. "He let it simmer and let it go and finally, instead of going to the coaches. ...

"What happens if you go to your coach and say, 'This guy's bothering me.' He's going to look at you and go, 'Are you crazy? You wuss. You're not tough. Get out of my office.' I'm not saying that's what would happen with [Dolphins Coach Joe] Philbin, because I don't know, but that's what's going to happen with 95% of coaches."