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Crabtree Or Harvin

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Crabtree Or Harvin

Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
When it comes to moving the chains Crabtree is chief. He will own Harvin as a number 1 WR. Crabtree gets that YAC. Crabtree catches in traffic over the middle and is especially adept doing it on both intermediate and deep crossing routes. Crabtree is more physical and has better hands. And like you said Crabtree is more clutch on 3rd downs, redzone and end game. Then when you add Boldin we have 2 of them like that. Harvin is faster he is more explosive he is more versatile he is the swiss army knife but he is not worth number 1 WR money when he is no consistent threat on the outside. Crabtree is a 1 and Harvin is a gimmick. Yes I would gladly take him as a 49er and be giddy over him as well but I would take Crabtree for our offense over Harvin any day.

Disclaimer: If I were SEA, I would prefer Harvin over Crabtree because of the Russell Wilson dynamic present. Wilson excels on the play after the called play. Wilson scrambles about on broken plays making magic happen and this is where Harvin can do real damage on the scramble drills where he can get the ball with open space and .... Lookout! I think that Harvin can be worth every penny to SEA because they have Wilson at QB and because of the way that Wilson thrives off organized chaos


i disagree, Harvin is much more physical with the ball in his hands, and is much better at YAC, he was leading the league in YAC last season before the injury. Find it funny the two things he excells in, you've managed to discredit him for it? I'd be more than happy to post stats and vids to back up my claim if you like..

That also depends on how he gets the ball. He caught passes from lining up in the backfield and had designed screens for him. YAC decreases for WR when they are purely from receptions from the WR position and not from some 3rd down back position or a bunch of screen passes. He is strong but Crabtree is also surprisingly strong.
Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
When it comes to moving the chains Crabtree is chief. He will own Harvin as a number 1 WR. Crabtree gets that YAC. Crabtree catches in traffic over the middle and is especially adept doing it on both intermediate and deep crossing routes. Crabtree is more physical and has better hands. And like you said Crabtree is more clutch on 3rd downs, redzone and end game. Then when you add Boldin we have 2 of them like that. Harvin is faster he is more explosive he is more versatile he is the swiss army knife but he is not worth number 1 WR money when he is no consistent threat on the outside. Crabtree is a 1 and Harvin is a gimmick. Yes I would gladly take him as a 49er and be giddy over him as well but I would take Crabtree for our offense over Harvin any day.

Disclaimer: If I were SEA, I would prefer Harvin over Crabtree because of the Russell Wilson dynamic present. Wilson excels on the play after the called play. Wilson scrambles about on broken plays making magic happen and this is where Harvin can do real damage on the scramble drills where he can get the ball with open space and .... Lookout! I think that Harvin can be worth every penny to SEA because they have Wilson at QB and because of the way that Wilson thrives off organized chaos


i disagree, Harvin is much more physical with the ball in his hands, and is much better at YAC, he was leading the league in YAC last season before the injury. Find it funny the two things he excells in, you've managed to discredit him for it? I'd be more than happy to post stats and vids to back up my claim if you like..

Watch the games Hawk. As a WR Crabtree is the more explosive per catch last year it looked to me. I thought he was averaging more yards per catch and he finished all of his receptions breaking tackles and falling forward. The physicality I am referencing in Crabtree came in his catches in traffic and over the middle and his blocking. Harvin is not that guy from what I have seen when we played him. Crabtree is a WR and Harvin is a gimmick swiss army knife
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Oct 27, 2013 at 7:44 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
That also depends on how he gets the ball. He caught passes from lining up in the backfield and had designed screens for him. YAC decreases for WR when they are purely from receptions from the WR position and not from some 3rd down back position or a bunch of screen passes. He is strong but Crabtree is also surprisingly strong.

This but Crabtree doesn't break like glass when he is hit. This is Crabtree first time missing games as a 49er due to injury in his 5 year career
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Oct 27, 2013 at 7:40 AM ]
Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:
Originally posted by hawker84:
Crabtree is a very good reciever, has shown to be a clutch go to guy, but he's not a gamebreaker. to try and compare the two guys is impossible, they have totally different games, and play totally different roles.

they're both very good recievers, i personally think Harvin brings more to the table as far as playmaking abilties and moving the chains. he can do it with short crossing passes, rushing, or 20 yrd patterns. neither guys is going to burn you over the top, they're going to nickle and dime you all the way down the field. but harvin has the abitlity to take a 5 yrd pass and take it to the house, Crabtree does not... And to me that's the difference... Personally i'd love to have either one of them. Crabtree is the better pure reciever, but Harvin is the better all around athlete/football player.
Obviously you don't remember the 5 yard pass Crab turned into a 40 yard TD against NE last year.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000112531/Crabtree-38-yard-TD-catch

Hawkervision.....believing everything .nut tells you without actually looking things up.

golden tate and balwdin have done that as well, doesn't mean they're a threat to do it everytime they touch the ball Harvin is, crapbtree is not.. no dig on him it's just a fact..

Good point. I'm going to start stating my opinion and say, "it's just a fact", too, and see how far it gets me.

The world isn't round! No offense, Pythagoras, it's just a fact.

That's you. That's what you sound like.
Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
When it comes to moving the chains Crabtree is chief. He will own Harvin as a number 1 WR. Crabtree gets that YAC. Crabtree catches in traffic over the middle and is especially adept doing it on both intermediate and deep crossing routes. Crabtree is more physical and has better hands. And like you said Crabtree is more clutch on 3rd downs, redzone and end game. Then when you add Boldin we have 2 of them like that. Harvin is faster he is more explosive he is more versatile he is the swiss army knife but he is not worth number 1 WR money when he is no consistent threat on the outside. Crabtree is a 1 and Harvin is a gimmick. Yes I would gladly take him as a 49er and be giddy over him as well but I would take Crabtree for our offense over Harvin any day.

Disclaimer: If I were SEA, I would prefer Harvin over Crabtree because of the Russell Wilson dynamic present. Wilson excels on the play after the called play. Wilson scrambles about on broken plays making magic happen and this is where Harvin can do real damage on the scramble drills where he can get the ball with open space and .... Lookout! I think that Harvin can be worth every penny to SEA because they have Wilson at QB and because of the way that Wilson thrives off organized chaos


i disagree, Harvin is much more physical with the ball in his hands, and is much better at YAC, he was leading the league in YAC last season before the injury. Find it funny the two things he excells in, you've managed to discredit him for it? I'd be more than happy to post stats and vids to back up my claim if you like..

There's the kicker. What good are you if you're not playing. Crabtree's injury was a freak incident; With Harvin, it's become a cardinal trait.
Originally posted by Imfasterthanur:
Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:
Originally posted by hawker84:
Crabtree is a very good reciever, has shown to be a clutch go to guy, but he's not a gamebreaker. to try and compare the two guys is impossible, they have totally different games, and play totally different roles.

they're both very good recievers, i personally think Harvin brings more to the table as far as playmaking abilties and moving the chains. he can do it with short crossing passes, rushing, or 20 yrd patterns. neither guys is going to burn you over the top, they're going to nickle and dime you all the way down the field. but harvin has the abitlity to take a 5 yrd pass and take it to the house, Crabtree does not... And to me that's the difference... Personally i'd love to have either one of them. Crabtree is the better pure reciever, but Harvin is the better all around athlete/football player.
Obviously you don't remember the 5 yard pass Crab turned into a 40 yard TD against NE last year.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000112531/Crabtree-38-yard-TD-catch

Hawkervision.....believing everything .nut tells you without actually looking things up.

golden tate and balwdin have done that as well, doesn't mean they're a threat to do it everytime they touch the ball Harvin is, crapbtree is not.. no dig on him it's just a fact..

Good point. I'm going to start stating my opinion and say, "it's just a fact", too, and see how far it gets me.

The world isn't round! No offense, Pythagoras, it's just a fact.

That's you. That's what you sound like.

I guess blocking doesn't factor into this argument. Crabtree with Kap as his QB has been a way different player and a much better all around WR IMO. I take Crab all day
if I want to pay a guy a sh*tload of money and him not even play then I choose harvin
A question to ask is: between Harvin and Crabtree, who will have a more effective season or be more to form once back on the field? Considering the injuries they're coming off of (hip and Achilles) that will affect there play and the amount of time they've had to practice etc.
[ Edited by VectorGoal on Nov 8, 2013 at 2:19 PM ]
I guess we're going to find out the answer to this question in the next few weeks.
Originally posted by English:
This one can stay locked up for a few days. Meantime if it spills out into other threads I will just drive the banmobile through.

seahawks thread gets locked
seahawks brick thread also gets locked
IBTL

Originally posted by xtm059:
Originally posted by English:
This one can stay locked up for a few days. Meantime if it spills out into other threads I will just drive the banmobile through.

seahawks thread gets locked
seahawks brick thread also gets locked
IBTL

Ban mode is engaged. Lock selected.

But as long as people stay on subject and don't get unpleasant it's ok.
At this point I would have to say Harvin, but I think next season is what would make the decision for me. We'll see if Crabtree rebounds from his surgery, and continues to show growth, and how Harvin adapts to a new team and rebounds from his injury, etc.

One comparison is just looking at the statistics. They both came in to the league the same year, and Harvin has played one game this season Crabtree none. So to date Crabtree has played 3 more games than Harvin. With Crabtree logging 3 more games he has caught 21 fewer passes with 17 more targets. Additionally, if you take Harvins contributions as a kick returner, and his rushing stats to date Harvin has contributed more with fewer opportunities. To me, this goes in Harvins favor.

Another comparison is to look at their growth comparison. Havin came into the league playing fairly well, won rookie of the year, and has put up pretty consistent numbers and shown pretty good growth though each of the years, up to having an MVP type season last year prior to injury. Crabtree came in to the leage with really high expectations, and played fairly well through his first 3 years, but overall did not meet expectations. He showed tremendous growth last year, especially when the team changed QB's. He looks to be on his way toward meeting expectations he came in to the league with if he continues to show the growth he showed last year. I'm not sure how to score this one. These are also tied to the offense, the QB, and the teams they were playing with. San Fran fans would argue that Crabtree was held back with Singletary, Alex Smith, and the team prior to the coaching regime change, then QB change the last half of last season. Harvin had Favre for his rookie season, then a handful of QB's after Favre got hurt, Ferotte, Tarvaris Jackson, then Christian Ponder. So that may be a wash.

Another comparison that most of the SF fans are making is in the injury history department. This might be a little more interesting than most on here are listing, (with the comments that Harvin is made of glass, etc.). It looks to me that both players have a similar injury history since joining the league in 09'. Harvin had his migraine issues his rookie year. This to me is more of an illness than an injury, and he hasn't shown any signs of recurrence in the last 3+ years. Since then he has missed games with an ankle injury last season that was a contact injury with ligament damage. He also has missed games this season with his hip injury, which was a non contact injury that required surgery and cost him 10 games. Crabtree had a non contact foot fracture in 09' that impacted the combine, and pre draft crap, I'm not sure if it would have cost him any games in his rookie season if he didn't hold out?? He had a broken foot in 11', and a torn achilles tendon in 13'. I'm not sure that 3 non contact injuries can be considered one freak injury as some have listed on here. All that being said, going back further, Harvin had a serious surgery on his heel in college that they believed was the cause of a lot of previous injuries going back to high school. I don't believe Crabtree had any serious injuries in college? So that would tip in Crabtrees favor. The other is build, Harvin is very slight, Crabtree is a lot bigger dude, I would expect Harvin would be more apt to sustain contact injuries just based on his build, but that's just speculation. I think the injury history is actually close, but would lean in Crabtree's favor.

Another item of note is that these guys are kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Crabtree is a #1 outside WR. Harvin is more of a slot guy, but will play outside on occasion. So, the question would be which you weigh more based on your teams needs, and the value each player would add. I think right now Crabtree would be more valuable to SF than Harvin would, and I think it's the opposite for Seattle. To me, being a Seattle fan, Harvin fits better right now, and when you add in his versatility as a kick returner, and his play with the ball in his hands, it tips the needle for me in Harvins favor.

On a quick side note, it was interesting watching Harvin on the sidelines this last weekend. He will be interesting to watch over the next couple of seasons. I sit behind Seattles bench, so watch a lot of the player interactions, treatments, etc. Watching Harvin this last game, I kept having one word pop into my head...INTENSE. I don't know if it was just because he hasn't played and was itching to get into the game, but the guy literally stalks the sideline. He was constantly in Carrols ear, and was constantly grabbing the other WR's, and Wilson to discuss the game. It worked, because Carrol relented and he had a terrific return, but I could see how he and Childress and/or Frazier and Ponder had issues. He seems to be a very intense dude, that will be interesting to watch when things aren't going well with how Carrol and Wilson handle him and vice versa.

Sorry for the long diatribe. Slow day at work.
[ Edited by maltz88 on Nov 20, 2013 at 1:01 PM ]
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Harvin would be the missing piece in our offense. Crabtree is too similar to Bolden. Great hands, but aren't gonna stretch the field the way Harvin could.
Originally posted by maltz88:
At this point I would have to say Harvin, but I think next season is what would make the decision for me. We'll see if Crabtree rebounds from his surgery, and continues to show growth, and how Harvin adapts to a new team and rebounds from his injury, etc.

One comparison is just looking at the statistics. They both came in to the league the same year, and Harvin has played one game this season Crabtree none. So to date Crabtree has played 3 more games than Harvin. With Crabtree logging 3 more games he has caught 21 fewer passes with 17 more targets. Additionally, if you take Harvins contributions as a kick returner, and his rushing stats to date Harvin has contributed more with fewer opportunities. To me, this goes in Harvins favor.

Another comparison is to look at their growth comparison. Havin came into the league playing fairly well, won rookie of the year, and has put up pretty consistent numbers and shown pretty good growth though each of the years, up to having an MVP type season last year prior to injury. Crabtree came in to the leage with really high expectations, and played fairly well through his first 3 years, but overall did not meet expectations. He showed tremendous growth last year, especially when the team changed QB's. He looks to be on his way toward meeting expectations he came in to the league with if he continues to show the growth he showed last year. I'm not sure how to score this one. These are also tied to the offense, the QB, and the teams they were playing with. San Fran fans would argue that Crabtree was held back with Singletary, Alex Smith, and the team prior to the coaching regime change, then QB change the last half of last season. Harvin had Favre for his rookie season, then a handful of QB's after Favre got hurt, Ferotte, Tarvaris Jackson, then Christian Ponder. So that may be a wash.

Another comparison that most of the SF fans are making is in the injury history department. This might be a little more interesting than most on here are listing, (with the comments that Harvin is made of glass, etc.). It looks to me that both players have a similar injury history since joining the league in 09'. Harvin had his migraine issues his rookie year. This to me is more of an illness than an injury, and he hasn't shown any signs of recurrence in the last 3+ years. Since then he has missed games with an ankle injury last season that was a contact injury with ligament damage. He also has missed games this season with his hip injury, which was a non contact injury that required surgery and cost him 10 games. Crabtree had a non contact foot fracture in 09' that impacted the combine, and pre draft crap, I'm not sure if it would have cost him any games in his rookie season if he didn't hold out?? He had a broken foot in 11', and a torn achilles tendon in 13'. I'm not sure that 3 non contact injuries can be considered one freak injury as some have listed on here. All that being said, going back further, Harvin had a serious surgery on his heel in college that they believed was the cause of a lot of previous injuries going back to high school. I don't believe Crabtree had any serious injuries in college? So that would tip in Crabtrees favor. The other is build, Harvin is very slight, Crabtree is a lot bigger dude, I would expect Harvin would be more apt to sustain contact injuries just based on his build, but that's just speculation. I think the injury history is actually close, but would lean in Crabtree's favor.

Another item of note is that these guys are kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Crabtree is a #1 outside WR. Harvin is more of a slot guy, but will play outside on occasion. So, the question would be which you weigh more based on your teams needs, and the value each player would add. I think right now Crabtree would be more valuable to SF than Harvin would, and I think it's the opposite for Seattle. To me, being a Seattle fan, Harvin fits better right now, and when you add in his versatility as a kick returner, and his play with the ball in his hands, it tips the needle for me in Harvins favor.

On a quick side note, it was interesting watching Harvin on the sidelines this last weekend. He will be interesting to watch over the next couple of seasons. I sit behind Seattles bench, so watch a lot of the player interactions, treatments, etc. Watching Harvin this last game, I kept having one word pop into my head...INTENSE. I don't know if it was just because he hasn't played and was itching to get into the game, but the guy literally stalks the sideline. He was constantly in Carrols ear, and was constantly grapping the other WR's, and Wilson to discuss the game. It worked, because Carrol relented and he had a terrific return, but I could see how he and Childress and/or Frazier and Ponder had issues. He seems to be a very intense dude, that will be interesting to watch when things aren't going well with how Carrol and Wilson handle him and vice versa.

Sorry for the long diatribe. Slow day at work.

Good, fair post.
I would take Crabtree as a true #1 due to moving the chains, great hands, great routes, YAC... but Percy Harvin is awesome as well. That speed is something we lack, BIG TIME. Too bad, at the end of the day, Roman wouldn't know how to use Harvin anyway.

I'm just hoping we don't push Crabtree out there too early..
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