Michael Crabtree Thread

Originally posted by 60sFan:
This is Crabtree's last year. His replacement will be drafted this year. I also think that Boldin's replacement in 2 years will be drafted this year, as well. I have Beckham and Bryant in my mock draft with Patton developing into our "go to" receiver in 2 years. He understands how to get open.

Let's fill the whole team with players on their rookie contracts and take 80% of the salary cap money to the bank. ...but if we don't win the Super Bowl every other year, let's fire Harbaugh and get a rookie coach on the cheap too.

Originally posted by CWin4949:
His great hands can't be denied and he's proven to bail Kap out on less than perfect throws, but I wouldn't give him crazy money.

It would probably help Kaps development if he didn't have Crabtree to over focus on.

This is great logic. Crabtree and Kaep work well together so let's NOT pay him. Let's load up the team with bad receivers and it will FORCE Kaep to get good.

Originally posted by CWin4949:

I don't want to add gas to the fire and I'm not going to pull all the numbers, but the numbers will show production obviously went down for Boldin and Davis once Crabtree returned to the offense, which would obviously happen, but I think the numbers for Davis were ridiculously lower than they were prior to Crabtrees return.

I don't think the problem is as much Kap not reading the field (though this has been proven to be a problem for Kap) but I think Kap feels pressure to target Crabtree from Crabtree on the practice field and during games. Speculation??? 100% yes! but if you replay the critical times in each playoff game! Crabtrees targets went up.

Wether it's pressure from Crabtree, or just a false sense of security, Kap needs to reach a level where it doesn't matter who his target is, as long as it's the correct read.

I think time will show he can reach that level, so the more options he's forced to use, the further his ceiling will go.

Originally posted by ayetee:

Originally posted by CWin4949:

His great hands can't be denied and he's proven to bail Kap out on less than perfect throws, but I wouldn't give him crazy money.

It would probably help Kaps development if he didn't have Crabtree to over focus on.

This is great logic. Crabtree and Kaep work well together so let's NOT pay him. Let's load up the team with bad receivers and it will FORCE Kaep to get good.

LOL, where's the logic in NOT wanting your franchise QB to "get good"???


You clearly don't have a background in management.

Originally posted by CWin4949:
I don't want to add gas to the fire and I'm not going to pull all the numbers, but the numbers will show production obviously went down for Boldin and Davis once Crabtree returned to the offense, which would obviously happen, but I think the numbers for Davis were ridiculously lower than they were prior to Crabtrees return.

I don't think the problem is as much Kap not reading the field (though this has been proven to be a problem for Kap) but I think Kap feels pressure to target Crabtree from Crabtree on the practice field and during games. Speculation??? 100% yes! but if you replay the critical times in each playoff game! Crabtrees targets went up.

Wether it's pressure from Crabtree, or just a false sense of security, Kap needs to reach a level where it doesn't matter who his target is, as long as it's the correct read.

I think time will show he can reach that level, so the more options he's forced to use, the further his ceiling will go.

Fair post. I looked at the numbers w/ and w/o Crab, and while Davis' targets and production took a slight dip, Boldin's remained the same. In fact, Boldin average more pass targets w/Crab than w/o. Probably has to do with less double coverage coming his way.

This team just needs more talented pass catchers who can get open and make plays on the ball. Kap will get it to them. He had a better 2012 because he had a deeper group of options. Crab, Moss, Davis, Walker, Manningham....as many as 5 guys. This year that was reduced to 2 productive options for the majority of the season......Boldin and Davis. Crabtree coming back made it 3 viable options, but that's not good enough. We need better depth.

Depends on this year. He has shown "flashes" of being elite a la 2012. Obviously last year he was not elite, he was average due to injury. Though, let it be noted that he came back way stronger then most of the zone could ever imagine, myself included.. Bottom line, crabs def has the ability to be elite when healthy. Will he? That's up to Crabs and it's going to be fun to watch...

My thoughts- I bet Crabs has a monster year, is it because Crabs is elite or because Kaep can take a really good wide receiver and make him look elite. Hard to tell with a small same size, but Boldin did post one of the best years of his career with Kaep. I love Crabs but I say let him walk. If Kaep is trying to take us for all he's worth, I have no doubt Crabs will as well... Both Crabs and Iupati walk we will have a good handle on the future cap...

While I am all in on Brandon Cooks, if TB is leaning toward letting Crab walk we need to instead acquire Moncrief and Jordan Matthews/Abbrederis later on..

Originally posted by ayetee:

I can swear that the majority of WebZone posters are part owners of the Niners. Why else would they wanted to hold on to the money and keep the payroll down so badly?

We have been a top five team since Harbaugh came three years ago yet according to the posters here, no more than one or two players we have deserve top five pay. Seems like you guys want a Super Bowl team but are only willing to have a payroll at half the cap. Don't you guys know that ain't gonna happen? You're living in a fantasy world.

Not at all buddy. We could easily name 10 better receivers. The issue is mainly the injuries and the fact that we just can't keep everyone at maximum salary. Boldin was essentially given away, Desean Jackson was dropped, something can come up where we get a pretty good replacement for half or less the investment. Would love to keep Crabtree, everyone has a price though.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by CWin4949:

His great hands can't be denied and he's proven to bail Kap out on less than perfect throws, but I wouldn't give him crazy money.

It would probably help Kaps development if he didn't have Crabtree to over focus on.

Agree.

I'm not so sure about that. Did the 11 weeks without Crabtree help in Kap's development? I don't think it did. All it did was hurt the offense and make things more difficult on Kap.

Look at Tom Brady's first 8 games of the season with a depleted WR core. 6 out of 8 games his QB rating was sub-80, and his comp % fell under 60 %. His numbers were brutal. We're talking about one of the all-time greats here. QBs need their playmakers on the field.

Because he can only see 1 read. And his 1 read was not out there. Sooner or later he will need to look at the whole field though like a wide open Quinton Patton in the NFC Championship game instead of forcing it to Crabtree who was covered like a glove. Every year it's the same. He talks about how much he trusts crab, he will always take crab one on one and he throws it to the right corner of the endzone. 2 seasons came to a screeching halt like that.

NO...just...no.

Did he stop throwing to Boldin and Davis after Crabtree came back? No he did not. If he was just a 1 one read QB, like you claim, they would have been phased out of the offense. That's not what happened. Crabtree returning expanded the offense to 3 viable receiving threats, instead of just 2. Boldin and Davis still got their targets, as did Crabtree. That made a big difference. The more viable threats, the more you can spread the ball around effectively.

Funny how you don't even touch on Brady's struggles, because that throws your 1-read theory right out the window. Brady clearly is not a 1-read QB, and he struggled mightily with an injury-depleted receiving unit.

Your simplistic take on everything is laughable. There is no depth or substance to any of your posts.

^^^This! This dude hates anyone that's not named Alex. We don't know if he's Elite cuz he's only had a good QB for 1.5 seasons! We do know in the games he's played in he's balled out. This upcoming season will tell the WHOLE story. If he plays like he did after Kaep took over he'll be top 10.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by CWin4949:
His great hands can't be denied and he's proven to bail Kap out on less than perfect throws, but I wouldn't give him crazy money.

It would probably help Kaps development if he didn't have Crabtree to over focus on.

Agree.

I'm not so sure about that. Did the 11 weeks without Crabtree help in Kap's development? I don't think it did. All it did was hurt the offense and make things more difficult on Kap.

Look at Tom Brady's first 8 games of the season with a depleted WR core. 6 out of 8 games his QB rating was sub-80, and his comp % fell under 60 %. His numbers were brutal. We're talking about one of the all-time greats here. QBs need their playmakers on the field.

Because he can only see 1 read. And his 1 read was not out there. Sooner or later he will need to look at the whole field though like a wide open Quinton Patton in the NFC Championship game instead of forcing it to Crabtree who was covered like a glove. Every year it's the same. He talks about how much he trusts crab, he will always take crab one on one and he throws it to the right corner of the endzone. 2 seasons came to a screeching halt like that.

NO...just...no.

Did he stop throwing to Boldin and Davis after Crabtree came back? No he did not. If he was just a 1 one read QB, like you claim, they would have been phased out of the offense. That's not what happened. Crabtree returning expanded the offense to 3 viable receiving threats, instead of just 2. Boldin and Davis still got their targets, as did Crabtree. That made a big difference. The more viable threats, the more you can spread the ball around effectively.

Funny how you don't even touch on Brady's struggles, because that throws your 1-read theory right out the window. Brady clearly is not a 1-read QB, and he struggled mightily with an injury-depleted receiving unit.

Your simplistic take on everything is laughable. There is no depth or substance to any of your posts.

...but it fits his agenda.

My only observation is that Crabtree doesn't take the top off the D. He's tough, has great hands, if he can show more separation this year he'll be in the elite class.

When people say "overpay" I often wonder what the heck they mean. Are we saying that 7M per year is the normal rate for an above average WR? And that anything higher than 7M would be "overpaying"?? If so, I have news for you, teams factor most of their players' salaries based on their value to THEIR team, NOT in comparison to their opponent...

So for example: A guy like Danny Woodhead could be more valuable to the Chargers based on what they do than another team. If a team like the Chiefs for example pay their backup RB $5M/yr, and the Chargers pay Woodhead $7M, this isn't an indication that the Chargers think Woodhead is "better" or "more elite" than the Chiefs RB...just that Woodhead is more VALUABLE TO THEM. There's a difference between Market Value and Team Value...teams tend to create their own Pay Scale which is semi-independent from the rest of the league..

With that said, Crabtree is highly valuable to this team based on his skill-set and production (when healthy). I'd be surprised if the team offered him anything less than 9Mill per season. (He deserves it IMO)

The last thing any team wants is to sign somebody to a long-term contract; and have that player perform at a level lower than what they are valued, or that player doesn't play (due to injury, or in Crabs rookie year case being an idiot)

Lets look at Crabtree and his history as a 49er
1st season- held out for more money, played in 11 games (19rec, 284yds, 1td)
2nd season- 15 games (55rec, 741yds, 6tds) also was injured this pre-season
3rd season- 14 games (72rec, 874 yds, 4tds)
4th- season FINALLY AFTER 4 YEARS (85rec, 1105yds, 9tds)
5th season- achillies out for 12 weeks (19rec, 284yds, 1td)

So in 5 years, Crabtree was injured 3 times (rookie season as well)
He racked up 250rec, 3288 yds, 21tds

On average Crabtree gets 50rec, 657yds, and roughly 4 Tds PER SEASON

I'm assuming he is going to demand somewhere in the ballpark of 8-12 mil a year (I'm literally laughing as I type this)

That puts him in the same category as players like Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Andre Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, and Greg Jennings (to name a few).

These are stats over the past 5 season per player, and their averages
Keep in mind Crabtree goes 50/657/4.2 per season played

Marshall- 486rec, 6151yds, 42tds
Average= 97/1230/8.4 per season played
Made around 11mil this year

V. Jackson- 292rec, 5129yds, 36tds
Average= 58/1025/7.2 per season played
Made around 11 mil as well
Also missed 2010 season due to injury (played 5 games)

D. Jackson- 294rec, 5205yds, 30tds
Average= 58/1041/6 per season played
Signed a contract worth around 8mil

White- 455rec, 5900yds, 39tds
Average= 91/1180/7.8 per season played
Made 8.5 mil last year

Johnson- 441rec, 6282yds, 28tds
Average= 88/1256/5.6 per season played
Made 9 mil last year

Bowe- 316rec, 4383yds, 32td
Average= 63/876/6.4 td per season (still beats out Crabs with 2 horrible seasons)
Made 11 mil last year

Jennings-315rec, 4497 yds, 33td
Average= 63/899/6.6 per season played
Made 9 million last year

For those of you that didn't read the above, here is a graph,
I created my own "production score" over the past 5 years and rated the players accordingly
(I used a 1 point system, multiply rec by .1, yards by .005, and TD's by .895)
Example,
I found Crabs "score" by creating the forumla 250(.1)+3288(.005)+21(.895)= 60.235
(I got those digits by finding out Calvin's #'s are [since I assumed he is the leader over the past 5 seasons] and cross referenced them with the statistics on here)



So if you want to be the guy on here rooting for Crabs to get paid like the guys I have mentioned, take a hard look at this post.

Also, I ran some numbers to see where Crabs stats really place him,
Crabs and Danny Amendola are almost identical in terms of NFL production



I might make this post into a thread

Did this work.

Edit: Dang it I can't figure out how to post the stupid graph

Sorry for the triple post,
These are the guys getting paid around what I am assuming Crabtree wants to be payed at,

Again.

Hopefully Baalke won't pay Crabs for what he "thinks" he can do, rather what he HAS DONE.

Clearly he isn't there

Originally posted by Quest4six:

The last thing any team wants is to sign somebody to a long-term contract; and have that player perform at a level lower than what they are valued, or that player doesn't play (due to injury, or in Crabs rookie year case being an idiot)

Lets look at Crabtree and his history as a 49er
1st season- held out for more money, played in 11 games (19rec, 284yds, 1td)
2nd season- 15 games (55rec, 741yds, 6tds) also was injured this pre-season
3rd season- 14 games (72rec, 874 yds, 4tds)
4th- season FINALLY AFTER 4 YEARS (85rec, 1105yds, 9tds)
5th season- achillies out for 12 weeks (19rec, 284yds, 1td)

So in 5 years, Crabtree was injured 3 times (rookie season as well)
He racked up 250rec, 3288 yds, 21tds

On average Crabtree gets 50rec, 657yds, and roughly 4 Tds PER SEASON

I'm assuming he is going to demand somewhere in the ballpark of 8-12 mil a year (I'm literally laughing as I type this)

That puts him in the same category as players like Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Andre Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, and Greg Jennings (to name a few).

These are stats over the past 5 season per player, and their averages
Keep in mind Crabtree goes 50/657/4.2 per season played

Marshall- 486rec, 6151yds, 42tds
Average= 97/1230/8.4 per season played
Made around 11mil this year

V. Jackson- 292rec, 5129yds, 36tds
Average= 58/1025/7.2 per season played
Made around 11 mil as well
Also missed 2010 season due to injury (played 5 games)

D. Jackson- 294rec, 5205yds, 30tds
Average= 58/1041/6 per season played
Signed a contract worth around 8mil

White- 455rec, 5900yds, 39tds
Average= 91/1180/7.8 per season played
Made 8.5 mil last year

Johnson- 441rec, 6282yds, 28tds
Average= 88/1256/5.6 per season played
Made 9 mil last year

Bowe- 316rec, 4383yds, 32td
Average= 63/876/6.4 td per season (still beats out Crabs with 2 horrible seasons)
Made 11 mil last year

Jennings-315rec, 4497 yds, 33td
Average= 63/899/6.6 per season played
Made 9 million last year

For those of you that didn't read the above, here is a graph,
I created my own "production score" over the past 5 years and rated the players accordingly
(I used a 1 point system, multiply rec by .1, yards by .005, and TD's by .895)
Example,
I found Crabs "score" by creating the forumla 250(.1)+3288(.005)+21(.895)= 60.235
(I got those digits by finding out Calvin's #'s are [since I assumed he is the leader over the past 5 seasons] and cross referenced them with the statistics on here)



So if you want to be the guy on here rooting for Crabs to get paid like the guys I have mentioned, take a hard look at this post.

Also, I ran some numbers to see where Crabs stats really place him,
Crabs and Danny Amendola are almost identical in terms of NFL production



I might make this post into a thread

Pretty obvious that it's clear that we shouldn't break the franchise for Crabtree.

All the more reason I believe we should just franchise him and let someone else give him a ridiculous contract while we pocket two first rounders.

Seattle just proved you don't have to have a bank busting WR core to win a championship.

Originally posted by Quest4six:

Sorry for the triple post,
These are the guys getting paid around what I am assuming Crabtree wants to be payed at,

Again.

Hopefully Baalke won't pay Crabs for what he "thinks" he can do, rather what he HAS DONE.

Clearly he isn't there

Thanks, great job with those posts...