Should the NFL take steps to reduce crowd noise in stadiums

Originally posted by Shawnsim:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Debunked how ?

Guinness just shows up with a meter and records the data...just like any other record..they don't check for anything unless it's right in their eye sight

Actually Guinness just got into the conversation this year. One reason is that this has been a staple of Seattle fans for decades. They retired the 12 number in honor of the fans for a very good reason. Because of this very simple act of acknowledgment of us, we reciprocate with devotion.

I used the term "civic pride" Then I found this. Straight from Hasselbecks mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-daAM954xf0 He agrees.

Here is a video from the 84 season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8vqr2bsOE4

Now, I am not trying to say that we have a rich history or, ever even done anything in football history. What I am trying to say is this. One act of acknowledgement towards the fan base 3+ decades ago, birthed the monster you see today. We love our team and, the 12th man thing makes us think that they reciprocate.

One last video about crowd noise. Just listen. Spontaneous and obviously not piped. Headphone wearers beware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVuQ5aw0HAQ

Could be piped or not...but it's the stadium that holds in the sound....I'm willing to bet if we put a normal 9er crowd in that stadium for a game and we will probably set a record that couldn't be broken.

Originally posted by Shawnsim:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Debunked how ?

Guinness just shows up with a meter and records the data...just like any other record..they don't check for anything unless it's right in their eye sight

Actually Guinness just got into the conversation this year. One reason is that this has been a staple of Seattle fans for decades. They retired the 12 number in honor of the fans for a very good reason. Because of this very simple act of acknowledgment of us, we reciprocate with devotion.

I used the term "civic pride" Then I found this. Straight from Hasselbecks mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-daAM954xf0 He agrees.

Here is a video from the 84 season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8vqr2bsOE4

Now, I am not trying to say that we have a rich history or, ever even done anything in football history. What I am trying to say is this. One act of acknowledgement towards the fan base 3+ decades ago, birthed the monster you see today. We love our team and, the 12th man thing makes us think that they reciprocate.

One last video about crowd noise. Just listen. Spontaneous and obviously not piped. Headphone wearers beware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVuQ5aw0HAQ

How is it obviously not piped? I don't hear the feedback in that clip that was happening during the Saints broadcast, but the audio quality from a handheld camera leaves much to be desired due to limited frequency response. I remember watching that game though (I was rooting for you guys that day, I hate the cowboys), it is a summary of Romo's career in one play...classic.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Could be piped or not...but it's the stadium that holds in the sound....I'm willing to bet if we put a normal 9er crowd in that stadium for a game and we will probably set a record that couldn't be broken.

You could be right. And yes the stadium is designed that way. However; you cannot design fans. FWIW. When have you seen your fans just going ape shirt crazy over your team?

The Kingdome started this and, it carried on into Husky stadium. Now it is here. After 30+ years how can anyone deny that it is real?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
How is it obviously not piped? I don't hear the feedback in that clip that was happening during the Saints broadcast, but the audio quality from a handheld camera leaves much to be desired due to limited frequency response. I remember watching that game though (I was rooting for you guys that day, I hate the cowboys), it is a summary of Romo's career in one play...classic.

Alright, lets talk about feedback.

Feedback occurs when a plugged in source gets too close to its output. I.e. a guitarist gets too close to his amp when his gains and levels are pushed to the max. Feedback. Feedback occurs when a singer gets too close to the microphone when levels and gains are pushed..

To put it in a certain perspective.

The crowd was so loud that the announcer had to turn it up to 11 and fed back every time he got near the microphone.

It is not rocket science

For the crowd to produce feedback. 1. the crowd would be holding an electric device hooked up to a PA or amp and be in close proximity to it.

Come on. How likely is that.

The NFL refs used to control noise and would penalize a team if the crowd doesn't lower the noise level. Somewhere along the line that rule stopped and I don't think it's fair for everyone and especially for those that don't play in a domed stadium.

As far as I'm concerned, this has NOTHING to do with the players' ability to play football. What if every team that doesn't own a domed stadium are allowed to put in several loud speakers and to pump up the volume, as well as allow the fans to bring in their boom boxes?

I'm just waiting for that 1st person who lost their hearing to sue the Seahawks and the NFL for not controlling the crowd noise. I'm sure that's bound to happen at some point. It only takes one to win their case for others to follow.

You've all heard the saying "It's an accident waiting to happen", in this case it's a LAWSUIT waiting to happen! NFL take heed!

Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
The NFL refs used to control noise and would penalize a team if the crowd doesn't lower the noise level. Somewhere along the line that rule stopped and I don't think it's fair for everyone and especially for those that don't play in a domed stadium.

As far as I'm concerned, this has NOTHING to do with the players' ability to play football. What if every team that doesn't own a domed stadium are allowed to put in several loud speakers and to pump up the volume, as well as allow the fans to bring in their boom boxes?

I'm just waiting for that 1st person who lost their hearing to sue the Seahawks and the NFL for not controlling the crowd noise. I'm sure that's bound to happen at some point. It only takes one to win their case for others to follow.

on the back on concert tickets, there is fine print that says something about the assumption of risk with your hearing at a loud show. maybe there is similar language on the back of tickets to sporting events

Originally posted by crabman82:
on the back on concert tickets, there is fine print that says something about the assumption of risk with your hearing at a loud show. maybe there is similar language on the back of tickets to sporting events

That may be so, but some smart lawyer (who is trying to make a name for themselves) would counter that a) His client did NOT agree and sign the contractual terms and b) If he or she is NOT allowed to come in and enjoy the show, then that would be a discrimination suit. Lawyers have a funny way of twisting and manipulating things, and it only takes ONE judge to rule for the client. The clock is ticking!

Originally posted by Kauaiguy:

Originally posted by crabman82:
on the back on concert tickets, there is fine print that says something about the assumption of risk with your hearing at a loud show. maybe there is similar language on the back of tickets to sporting events

That may be so, but some smart lawyer (who is trying to make a name for themselves) would counter that a) His client did NOT agree and sign the contractual terms and b) If he or she is NOT allowed to come in and enjoy the show, then that would be a discrimination suit. Lawyers have a funny way of twisting and manipulating things, and it only takes ONE judge to rule for the client. The clock is ticking!

i'm canadian, that s**t wouldnt fly up here, but in your sue happy country, you're right someone will for sure try and maybe succeed.

Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
The NFL refs used to control noise and would penalize a team if the crowd doesn't lower the noise level. Somewhere along the line that rule stopped and I don't think it's fair for everyone and especially for those that don't play in a domed stadium.

As far as I'm concerned, this has NOTHING to do with the players' ability to play football. What if every team that doesn't own a domed stadium are allowed to put in several loud speakers and to pump up the volume, as well as allow the fans to bring in their boom boxes?

I'm just waiting for that 1st person who lost their hearing to sue the Seahawks and the NFL for not controlling the crowd noise. I'm sure that's bound to happen at some point. It only takes one to win their case for others to follow.

You've all heard the saying "It's an accident waiting to happen", in this case it's a LAWSUIT waiting to happen! NFL take heed!

I get what your saying. but you come acrossed as just jealous. There is no reason that you cannot do the same thing. Actually the Niners Seahawks game from your fans was great. It was loud and proud and it influenced the game.

No

Also, we don't play in a domed stadium. But your assertion about crowd noise makes me laugh. Most people downplay our crowd noise as a construct. You want to sue? We have all sorts on both sides.

Originally posted by Shawnsim:

Originally posted by Kauaiguy:
The NFL refs used to control noise and would penalize a team if the crowd doesn't lower the noise level. Somewhere along the line that rule stopped and I don't think it's fair for everyone and especially for those that don't play in a domed stadium.

As far as I'm concerned, this has NOTHING to do with the players' ability to play football. What if every team that doesn't own a domed stadium are allowed to put in several loud speakers and to pump up the volume, as well as allow the fans to bring in their boom boxes?

I'm just waiting for that 1st person who lost their hearing to sue the Seahawks and the NFL for not controlling the crowd noise. I'm sure that's bound to happen at some point. It only takes one to win their case for others to follow.

You've all heard the saying "It's an accident waiting to happen", in this case it's a LAWSUIT waiting to happen! NFL take heed!

I get what your saying. but you come acrossed as just jealous. There is no reason that you cannot do the same thing. Actually the Niners Seahawks game from your fans was great. It was loud and proud and it influenced the game.

See now that's what homefield advantage should be. Fans should be able to cheer and create a hostile environment that is uncomfortable and intimidating for the opposing team. However, that noise shouldn't be able to get so loud that it directly affects the play on the field. That is when it becomes a serious problem because the fans shouldn't be able to directly influence a game like that. In Seattle, the crowd noise takes away the ability of the opposing team to hear or communicate on offense. That s**t ain't right. You shouldn't be able to just flat out take away one of the senses of the opposing team. That's cheap and a HUGE unfair advantage. They need to install mics in everyone's helmets so the quarterback can at least communicate with his offensive players.

Originally posted by Shawnsim:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Could be piped or not...but it's the stadium that holds in the sound....I'm willing to bet if we put a normal 9er crowd in that stadium for a game and we will probably set a record that couldn't be broken.

You could be right. And yes the stadium is designed that way. However; you cannot design fans. FWIW. When have you seen your fans just going ape shirt crazy over your team?

The Kingdome started this and, it carried on into Husky stadium. Now it is here. After 30+ years how can anyone deny that it is real?

you think your fans are the only ones to act a fool at games ? lol

Originally posted by Shawnsim:
Alright, lets talk about feedback.

Feedback occurs when a plugged in source gets too close to its output. I.e. a guitarist gets too close to his amp when his gains and levels are pushed to the max. Feedback. Feedback occurs when a singer gets too close to the microphone when levels and gains are pushed..

To put it in a certain perspective.

The crowd was so loud that the announcer had to turn it up to 11 and fed back every time he got near the microphone.

It is not rocket science

For the crowd to produce feedback. 1. the crowd would be holding an electric device hooked up to a PA or amp and be in close proximity to it.

Come on. How likely is that.

I did not at any point say that the feedback was from the crowd. The feedback was from the crowd noise being pumped through the pa system at such a loud level that the broadcast mics were picking it up and creating a feedback loop. When you are dealing with stadium sized systems pushing thousands of watts, the mics don't have to be that close. It is a problem I have had to deal with many times in the past twenty years. The way you would ideally execute the pumping of the crowd noise is to place omnidirectional microphones away from the speakers as far as possible, then you'd gradually increase the gain structure in the matrix when you wanted that extra 10-12 db that these record setting stadiums magically produce. The part that makes me skeptical is that extra 10 or so db that cannot possibly come from human vocal chords. Otherwise the broadcast mic explanation might be feasible. But then we have that inexplicable db gain as the fly in the ointment...

Thanks for the lesson on feedback though, after mixing sound for 20+ years I was beginning to think I would NEVER figure it out.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Shawnsim:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Could be piped or not...but it's the stadium that holds in the sound....I'm willing to bet if we put a normal 9er crowd in that stadium for a game and we will probably set a record that couldn't be broken.

You could be right. And yes the stadium is designed that way. However; you cannot design fans. FWIW. When have you seen your fans just going ape shirt crazy over your team?

The Kingdome started this and, it carried on into Husky stadium. Now it is here. After 30+ years how can anyone deny that it is real?

you think your fans are the only ones to act a fool at games ? lol

Lol the Seahawks fans are clearly the best fans ever. They are superior to all other fans. Their stadium noise has everything to do with how great and how loud their fans are. It has nothing to do with the stadium design. No other fan base could produce that noise level at the link. All bow down to the mighty Seahawk fans