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Haralson....

  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,987
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

I am distressed, since you know so much more tha Harbs and Balks
where does it say I know more than they did,, please highlight it for me. i do not like the trade, could care less what we got for him and i think we have huge question marks at linebacker depth with a kid and a guy who is not used to playing that spot,, so sue me
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I keep going over the post in this thread and I still think that some people aren't getting it.

I still see post about Haralson being "worth" more than a 7. If we could only get a 7, why trade him at all? Insert personal rage description here.

The reason you don't get it and the reason you are pissed is that you are approaching this situation from the wrong direction. You are seeing a decent player on the roster and then trying to figure out what he's worth...to you. Here's the problem...

1) The thoughts on how good Haralson is on this forum is way overblown. He was a solid but not spectacular player. Never was much of a pass rusher. Good run defender. All the stuff I read on here how he could have made a difference last year when Aldon and Justin were hurt? Total BS. Haralson doesn't play 3-4 DE and an injured Aldon was still better than a fully healthy Haralson. When did Haralson become so great a player that people would have so much outrage over this?

2) Lemonier has a future with this team. I keep reading this crap about how we are screwed because we only have a 21 year old backup. LOL. When was that EVER a problem? I didn't see people freaking out when Aldon was the backup to Haralson. Why? Haralson wasn't that good and nobody worried about who the backup OLB was...plus Aldon looked good (as does Lemonier). THIS IS HOW YOU DEVELOP A YOUNG PLAYER. You put him in THIS situation where he's the first guy off the bench. It's obvious the Niners really like Lemonier. I've seen nothing that makes me think they shouldn't. As for the argument that he didn't do anything since week 1, you might want to check the statsheet on week 2. Also, in 3 games he's had 32 rushes and pressured the QB 8 times and had 2 sacks. That ain't bad. Are we screwed because we may have a 21-22 year old STARTING as the #2 TE? Are we screwed because we have a 21-22 year old STARTING at FS?

3) The "worth" argument. A player is only ever "worth" what a team is willing to give up for him. ALL factors have an effect on "worth". In this case, worth was dictated by the skill of the player combined with the knowledge that he would likely be released. Lets pretend we are the Saints. You know a team is going to release a good player at a position you need. Are you going to offer the world? No, you offer the smallest compensation you can offer and hope the team takes it because their other option is nothing. That's what happened. Thats how we got Boldin. It works both ways.

4) The argument that they didn't "have" to release Haralson. Of course this is true, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. Nobody here is saying he's not better than Skuta. At issue is the role Skuta plays compared to Haralson. Skuta plays much more on special teams, is younger, and has position flexibility...IE he can play inside or outside. As a pure OLB, Haralson is the better player. This isn't a vacuum tho. People can't seem to see past that OLB part and realize that more goes into a decision than that. ALOT more. Then it becomes a numbers game. If you keep 5 OLB (effectively a third string player), then where do you cut to keep that many OLBs? WR? RB? Do we lose Anthony Dixon (another special teamer) for Haralson? I've seen the suggestion that we only keep 2 TEs...on a team that plays a 2 TE offense...IE, keep a 3rd string OLB and ZERO backup TEs. That makes no sense to me.

5) Maybe, just maybe....the front office knows what they are doing. I'm not saying nobody should ever question them. I've done my fair share in the past. In this regard tho and at this position...I think we should trust them. They clearly like what they see in Lemonier. I do too for that matter.

1) your missing the substitution part. See earlier threads. who's talking about DE? No One.

2) the ego stroke of giving lots of playing time to a young player as a development tool is a reasonable point. But I also think that being part of a rotation is not so bad either. As long as they get the snaps, regardless of first off the bench, or second, or whatever. the point is that aldon and brooks had over 1000 snaps last year. They should be targeted for 800, so they arent beat to sh$t by playoffs. or at least not as much. TE and FS .... each is it's own argument and discussion. Reid looks good, he doesn't bother me as a starter. Lemonhead is younger not as polished mentally. Reid has really good vision. It's unusual. Vance I am comfortable with as #2. I would not be comfortable him as #1, but I don't klnow enough about te to really say.

Ill finish this post later.


The substitition aspect I can live with....but they are still going to have 2 backup OLBs. We don't get to keep 70 players. Someone PLEASE put together a roster where you can heep all 5 OLBs (not counting Johnson who can still be on the PS) and see who you have to cut to keep all of them.

I'm not talking about an ego stroke...I'm talking about real playing time. If anything should be clear right now it's that the 49ers really like Lemonier.

That should be a GOOD thing.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Depth is not an argument we will have 4OLBs after this move, thats the most we should carry anyways.

This, we only kept 3 OLB last year that was our problem, now the 49ers feel they have 2 guys who can contribute if needed, Guess what? They are younger and cheaper than Haralson.
[ Edited by valrod33 on Aug 27, 2013 at 9:23 AM ]
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

I am distressed, since you know so much more tha Harbs and Balks
where does it say I know more than they did,, please highlight it for me. i do not like the trade, could care less what we got for him and i think we have huge question marks at linebacker depth with a kid and a guy who is not used to playing that spot,, so sue me

...welcome to todays NFL. Thats kinda the state of the backup position at almost every spot on every team in the NFL. We are just spoiled.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back up in the preseason is not ok?

who is this rookie linebacker who played ball last year? what did he do? was it productive for us? i must have missed it. I have no confidence in johnson to stay healthy or even make this roster so you better hope that a rookie and a guy who has mainly been a inside backer for us come through if needed this year,, helluva gamble. even Jh admitted he f**ked up by not having haralson come back for post season when we sure could have used him.
What exactly did Haralson do last year?
he was hurt of course but you can not set there with a straight face and tell me, he would not have made a difference . as it was we had two guys who had to play when hurt because there was no depth behind them. if there was depth who was it because i missed it

We have depth this year which is why Haralson is gone
  • boast
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 70,371
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back up in the preseason is not ok?

who is this rookie linebacker who played ball last year? what did he do? was it productive for us? i must have missed it. I have no confidence in johnson to stay healthy or even make this roster so you better hope that a rookie and a guy who has mainly been a inside backer for us come through if needed this year,, helluva gamble. even Jh admitted he f**ked up by not having haralson come back for post season when we sure could have used him.

i was referring to Lemonier.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,987
Originally posted by 5280High:
Yes it was a glaring need last year, but not this year. What if this years glaring need is WR again, or CB and we cut a player that could contribute to keep Haralson who would see maybe 15% of the defensive snaps this year? I think the zone is severely underrating Skuta, Ive watched and rewatched all the games 2-3 times (unemployed and bored) Skuta has been making plays quietly opposite Haralson,
i like skuta very much, i think he will do wonders for our special teams. just makes me nervous that we could be one injury away from him playing in a area that he does not have much experience in. i like the lemon man but man, small body of work
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Depth is not an argument we will have 4OLBs after this move, thats the most we should carry anyways.

This, we only kept 3 OLB last that was our problem now the 49ers feel they have 2 guys who can contribute if needed, Guess what they are younger and cheaper than Haralson.


THIS.

All I ever see is "we should have kept Haralson" but I have yet to see someone give a reasonable suggestion in regards to who we let go in order to keep Haralson.
I cant believe the outrage over trading Haralson. It doesnt matter if he is a vet or not. The coaching staff feels that we have better guys available than Haralson, why is that such a bad thing?
  • SoCold
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 44,600
not a 49er anymore, don't care, this is NFL talk

all of you who love him are Saints fans

Update the List
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,987
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

I am distressed, since you know so much more tha Harbs and Balks
where does it say I know more than they did,, please highlight it for me. i do not like the trade, could care less what we got for him and i think we have huge question marks at linebacker depth with a kid and a guy who is not used to playing that spot,, so sue me

...welcome to todays NFL. Thats kinda the state of the backup position at almost every spot on every team in the NFL. We are just spoiled.
guess its about wants vs needs i guess lots think he is a want. i like the kid and skuta , just hope we never get in a spot where we have to depend on them for a long period of time. would like to ease in the lemon man kind of like they did with aldon smith.
cc - step away from the ledge!!
Thaks for the years and the effort. good luck in NO but not at our expense.
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back ups in the preseason is not ok?

I'll say this again....the Chiefs and Vikings left their starters in the game till the third quarter....it wasn't 2nd teamers he was making plays on.

And to all that think that he was gonna get cut....is there a link? Why would Harrelsons contract effect what we do as far as re upping people next year by having him THIS year? Having him as a rotational guy was important to our Super Bowl run this year....of course we all know he wouldn't be here next year....but in all reality 7th rounders get cut alot more tha quality backups...so to get a 7th really doesn't make a difference if we are already stacked with depth.

And to those that say , Harrelson would not have made a difference last year...lol....right. Leaving Aldon and Brooks in all game turned out to be bad, as there was no rush at all at the end of the year and Marvin no one said that Harrelson was gonna play 3-4 DE....lol
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,987
Originally posted by chico49erfan:
cc - step away from the ledge!!

just have flashbacks i guess to last year when the guys got hurt and we had no option. felt much more comfortable with a vet back there. like many said, the coaches see these guys everyday so what the hell.
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