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Haralson....

  • AmpLee
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 19,142
Originally posted by kray28:
They basically paid the Saints to take Haralson off our hands.

Yay 7th rounder. What a waste. He was valuable depth.

No they didn't. The Saints get his salary and compensate with a pick. Read Marvin's post above.
gotta cut the fat. Aldon and Kaep's contract extensions coming up. some big money.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 32,396
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back ups in the preseason is not ok?
This organization takes care of its players. They put Haralson in the best possible situation... most likely will start for a team that is a contender. Thats all a vet wants anyways. Was he good depth, yeah... but Skuta has played just as well this preseason and Lemonier will be the rotating pass rusher. That leaves Haralson as the odd man out.

Both the niners and the saints benefit from this deal, and trading Haralson just opened up a roster spot for another developing player. Maybe they go with 6 WRs now or 4 TEs or another D lineman or even keep Jewel Hampton on the roster. Haralson would of been nice to have for sure, but what if this move just allowed Collie or Hall or Hawkins to make the roster, or allowed us to keep both Cooper and/or Morris. I would gladly take a developing player over Haralson as the 5TH OLB.
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

So , they just should have cut him like they were going to instead?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
I keep going over the post in this thread and I still think that some people aren't getting it.

I still see post about Haralson being "worth" more than a 7. If we could only get a 7, why trade him at all? Insert personal rage description here.

The reason you don't get it and the reason you are pissed is that you are approaching this situation from the wrong direction. You are seeing a decent player on the roster and then trying to figure out what he's worth...to you. Here's the problem...

1) The thoughts on how good Haralson is on this forum is way overblown. He was a solid but not spectacular player. Never was much of a pass rusher. Good run defender. All the stuff I read on here how he could have made a difference last year when Aldon and Justin were hurt? Total BS. Haralson doesn't play 3-4 DE and an injured Aldon was still better than a fully healthy Haralson. When did Haralson become so great a player that people would have so much outrage over this?

2) Lemonier has a future with this team. I keep reading this crap about how we are screwed because we only have a 21 year old backup. LOL. When was that EVER a problem? I didn't see people freaking out when Aldon was the backup to Haralson. Why? Haralson wasn't that good and nobody worried about who the backup OLB was...plus Aldon looked good (as does Lemonier). THIS IS HOW YOU DEVELOP A YOUNG PLAYER. You put him in THIS situation where he's the first guy off the bench. It's obvious the Niners really like Lemonier. I've seen nothing that makes me think they shouldn't. As for the argument that he didn't do anything since week 1, you might want to check the statsheet on week 2. Also, in 3 games he's had 32 rushes and pressured the QB 8 times and had 2 sacks. That ain't bad. Are we screwed because we may have a 21-22 year old STARTING as the #2 TE? Are we screwed because we have a 21-22 year old STARTING at FS?

3) The "worth" argument. A player is only ever "worth" what a team is willing to give up for him. ALL factors have an effect on "worth". In this case, worth was dictated by the skill of the player combined with the knowledge that he would likely be released. Lets pretend we are the Saints. You know a team is going to release a good player at a position you need. Are you going to offer the world? No, you offer the smallest compensation you can offer and hope the team takes it because their other option is nothing. That's what happened. Thats how we got Boldin. It works both ways.

4) The argument that they didn't "have" to release Haralson. Of course this is true, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. Nobody here is saying he's not better than Skuta. At issue is the role Skuta plays compared to Haralson. Skuta plays much more on special teams, is younger, and has position flexibility...IE he can play inside or outside. As a pure OLB, Haralson is the better player. This isn't a vacuum tho. People can't seem to see past that OLB part and realize that more goes into a decision than that. ALOT more. Then it becomes a numbers game. If you keep 5 OLB (effectively a third string player), then where do you cut to keep that many OLBs? WR? RB? Do we lose Anthony Dixon (another special teamer) for Haralson? I've seen the suggestion that we only keep 2 TEs...on a team that plays a 2 TE offense...IE, keep a 3rd string OLB and ZERO backup TEs. That makes no sense to me.

5) Maybe, just maybe....the front office knows what they are doing. I'm not saying nobody should ever question them. I've done my fair share in the past. In this regard tho and at this position...I think we should trust them. They clearly like what they see in Lemonier. I do too for that matter.

1) your missing the substitution part. See earlier threads. who's talking about DE? No One.

2) the ego stroke of giving lots of playing time to a young player as a development tool is a reasonable point. But I also think that being part of a rotation is not so bad either. As long as they get the snaps, regardless of first off the bench, or second, or whatever. the point is that aldon and brooks had over 1000 snaps last year. They should be targeted for 800, so they arent beat to sh$t by playoffs. or at least not as much. TE and FS .... each is it's own argument and discussion. Reid looks good, he doesn't bother me as a starter. Lemonhead is younger not as polished mentally. Reid has really good vision. It's unusual. Vance I am comfortable with as #2. I would not be comfortable him as #1, but I don't klnow enough about te to really say.

Ill finish this post later.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 32,396
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back up in the preseason is not ok?

who is this rookie linebacker who played ball last year? what did he do? was it productive for us? i must have missed it. I have no confidence in johnson to stay healthy or even make this roster so you better hope that a rookie and a guy who has mainly been a inside backer for us come through if needed this year,, helluva gamble. even Jh admitted he f**ked up by not having haralson come back for post season when we sure could have used him.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back up in the preseason is not ok?

who is this rookie linebacker who played ball last year? what did he do? was it productive for us? i must have missed it. I have no confidence in johnson to stay healthy or even make this roster so you better hope that a rookie and a guy who has mainly been a inside backer for us come through if needed this year,, helluva gamble. even Jh admitted he f**ked up by not having haralson come back for post season when we sure could have used him.
What exactly did Haralson do last year?
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

Valid concern but lets remember he was the 5th OLB, even Barrows said Skuta has played so well during practice that they cant part with him and he plays special teams, we will have plenty of depth.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 32,396
Originally posted by 5280High:
This organization takes care of its players. They put Haralson in the best possible situation... most likely will start for a team that is a contender. Thats all a vet wants anyways. Was he good depth, yeah... but Skuta has played just as well this preseason and Lemonier will be the rotating pass rusher. That leaves Haralson as the odd man out.

Both the niners and the saints benefit from this deal, and trading Haralson just opened up a roster spot for another developing player. Maybe they go with 6 WRs now or 4 TEs or another D lineman or even keep Jewel Hampton on the roster. Haralson would of been nice to have for sure, but what if this move just allowed Collie or Hall or Hawkins to make the roster, or allowed us to keep both Cooper and/or Morris. I would gladly take a developing player over Haralson as the 5TH OLB.
if your theory is true i think that is a illogical swap a proven more than respectable vet in a area that is a glaring need which was evidenced by what took place last year for jewel hampton.
Depth is not an argument we will have 4OLBs after this move, thats the most we should carry anyways.
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

I am distressed, since you know so much more tha Harbs and Balks
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 32,396
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i could care less what we got for him, a first round draft choice would do us no good if or when we find ourselves with our two serviceable linebackers hurt like last year. sure the lemon man has potential and has done well in two games, dan s is a fine special teams person and if you guys are depending on cam johnson to stay healthy let alone even making the team, I think you are whistling past the end zone. haralson would have been so valuable and is a known commodity to take pressure off brooks and smith. right now in my opinion, there is potential behind those two guys but still nothing but question marks, terrible move in my opinion

so it's ok that a LB that didn't play at all in 2012 but appeared to play well in the preseason against back ups but a rookie LB that did play ball in 2012 and appeared to play great against back up in the preseason is not ok?

who is this rookie linebacker who played ball last year? what did he do? was it productive for us? i must have missed it. I have no confidence in johnson to stay healthy or even make this roster so you better hope that a rookie and a guy who has mainly been a inside backer for us come through if needed this year,, helluva gamble. even Jh admitted he f**ked up by not having haralson come back for post season when we sure could have used him.
What exactly did Haralson do last year?
he was hurt of course but you can not set there with a straight face and tell me, he would not have made a difference . as it was we had two guys who had to play when hurt because there was no depth behind them. if there was depth who was it because i missed it
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by 5280High:
This organization takes care of its players. They put Haralson in the best possible situation... most likely will start for a team that is a contender. Thats all a vet wants anyways. Was he good depth, yeah... but Skuta has played just as well this preseason and Lemonier will be the rotating pass rusher. That leaves Haralson as the odd man out.

Both the niners and the saints benefit from this deal, and trading Haralson just opened up a roster spot for another developing player. Maybe they go with 6 WRs now or 4 TEs or another D lineman or even keep Jewel Hampton on the roster. Haralson would of been nice to have for sure, but what if this move just allowed Collie or Hall or Hawkins to make the roster, or allowed us to keep both Cooper and/or Morris. I would gladly take a developing player over Haralson as the 5TH OLB.
if your theory is true i think that is a illogical swap a proven more than respectable vet in a area that is a glaring need which was evidenced by what took place last year for jewel hampton.

Yes it was a glaring need last year, but not this year. What if this years glaring need is WR again, or CB and we cut a player that could contribute to keep Haralson who would see maybe 15% of the defensive snaps this year? I think the zone is severely underrating Skuta, Ive watched and rewatched all the games 2-3 times (unemployed and bored) Skuta has been making plays quietly opposite Haralson,