Lawrence Okoye Thread of Epic Awesomeness

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
From Ziggy Ansah's wikipedia:

Unfamiliar with American football, Ansah had to be instructed in the most basic rules and techniques, even needing help getting on his pads for the first time.[5] Mid-way through the 2010 season Ansah made his first collegiate appearance in the Cougars' game versus Wyoming where he recorded his first tackle. During the 2010 season he saw action in six games on special teams and the defensive line, recording three tackles and a pass breakup.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but the suggestion of some in here that it takes YEARS AND YEARS to become a useful football player seems greatly exaggerated. Ansah became a situational backup under similar circumstances at a similar age.

Many variables here are changed. The 49ers have a much tougher rotation to crack than BYU. But I have a feeling Okoye is a quicker study and a harder worker. I really think the 49ers should suit him up this season and send him out on special teams and maybe a play or two per game on defense. Sooner rather than later.

But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
From Ziggy Ansah's wikipedia:

Unfamiliar with American football, Ansah had to be instructed in the most basic rules and techniques, even needing help getting on his pads for the first time.[5] Mid-way through the 2010 season Ansah made his first collegiate appearance in the Cougars' game versus Wyoming where he recorded his first tackle. During the 2010 season he saw action in six games on special teams and the defensive line, recording three tackles and a pass breakup.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but the suggestion of some in here that it takes YEARS AND YEARS to become a useful football player seems greatly exaggerated. Ansah became a situational backup under similar circumstances at a similar age.

Many variables here are changed. The 49ers have a much tougher rotation to crack than BYU. But I have a feeling Okoye is a quicker study and a harder worker. I really think the 49ers should suit him up this season and send him out on special teams and maybe a play or two per game on defense. Sooner rather than later.

But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Yeah I'm just trying to rebut the notion some seem to have that Okoye, if he stays with us, will be completely useless for two or three years. Definitely not saying it's going to be easy, but I think he is going to shock everyone.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
I watch some rugby games where I am and the players are in great shape. Everyone has a flat stomach not like the fat front seven of the Baltimore Ravens. Sorry, the game is still on my mind.

I feel you for sure, if it weren't for injuries and suspect play, we would have beaten them significantly IMO.. As for Rugby its no joke, those guys have their body, a mouth guard and cleats for protection. A real man's game.

Originally posted by jreff22:
But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Jeff Stover, a shot putter from Oregon became a good defensive lineman for the 49ers.

He never played college football.

Not identical to Okoye, but similar.

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
From Ziggy Ansah's wikipedia:

Unfamiliar with American football, Ansah had to be instructed in the most basic rules and techniques, even needing help getting on his pads for the first time.[5] Mid-way through the 2010 season Ansah made his first collegiate appearance in the Cougars' game versus Wyoming where he recorded his first tackle. During the 2010 season he saw action in six games on special teams and the defensive line, recording three tackles and a pass breakup.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but the suggestion of some in here that it takes YEARS AND YEARS to become a useful football player seems greatly exaggerated. Ansah became a situational backup under similar circumstances at a similar age.

Many variables here are changed. The 49ers have a much tougher rotation to crack than BYU. But I have a feeling Okoye is a quicker study and a harder worker. I really think the 49ers should suit him up this season and send him out on special teams and maybe a play or two per game on defense. Sooner rather than later.

Yes it takes years to learn proper fundamentals of football, there's a reason 99% of the players in the NFL have started from Pee-wee football. Only handful or less in the NFL has started their football careers in college and made it to the Pros. And I can't think of one player that had ZERO football experience and made it in the Pros.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Jeff Stover, a shot putter from Oregon became a good defensive lineman for the 49ers.

He never played college football.

Not identical to Okoye, but similar.

And Michael Carter I'm remembering now, but didn't they at least have high school football experience?? I could be wrong. After all this I stand corrected.

(nevermind Carter played in college)

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Jeff Stover, a shot putter from Oregon became a good defensive lineman for the 49ers.

He never played college football.

Not identical to Okoye, but similar.

And Michael Carter I'm remembering now, but didn't they at least have high school football experience?? I could be wrong. After all this I stand corrected.

(nevermind Carter played in college)

Carter played defensive line for Southern Methodist University.

Stove played football in high school.

"Stover's own somewhat improbable journey to Super Bowl greatness with the Niners started during his football days at Corning High, where he basically played "everything." "I was actually fullback, tailback, running back on offense, and then I played defensive end," Stover said. "And I kicked the ball off on punts and kickoffs."
http://www.chicoer.com/aaronrodgers/ci_17279062

Still feel that Stover's path to the NFL--high school football to college track to NFL--does lend some credence to the idea that Okoye could be successful.

It will really help if he has a mean streak to go with his physical skill set.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Scrum leverage is much different than lining up across from an OT trying to beat him for a sack and not getting pancaked at the same time. Scrum, you're already locked up with your opponent and teammate at the same time fighting for the ball. Your not really battling one-on-one or even two-on-one for three or four downs with leverage ans pass-rush moves which will gas you out in no time. I agree that they will most likely simplify his assignments, but if he can't show basic fundamentals which takes most players a few years to learn then hos time will be short as an NFL player. But I would hope he wouldn't give up if cut, there's always the CFL or AFL, and since hes still young he could always come back to the NFL. One thing is for sure, with his size and speed he may be useful on Special Teams.

Yep - not saying it is exact. But the key in the scrum is also getting leverage by driving the hips low and under the opposing scrum's leverage -- a key concept in football leverage as well. If you don't habitually lower your hips, you will tire very quickly in the leverage battle. Granted, it is much more important in Football to get leverage with proper hand placement and quick movement.

Originally posted by HearstFan:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Scrum leverage is much different than lining up across from an OT trying to beat him for a sack and not getting pancaked at the same time. Scrum, you're already locked up with your opponent and teammate at the same time fighting for the ball. Your not really battling one-on-one or even two-on-one for three or four downs with leverage ans pass-rush moves which will gas you out in no time. I agree that they will most likely simplify his assignments, but if he can't show basic fundamentals which takes most players a few years to learn then hos time will be short as an NFL player. But I would hope he wouldn't give up if cut, there's always the CFL or AFL, and since hes still young he could always come back to the NFL. One thing is for sure, with his size and speed he may be useful on Special Teams.

Yep - not saying it is exact. But the key in the scrum is also getting leverage by driving the hips low and under the opposing scrum's leverage -- a key concept in football leverage as well. If you don't habitually lower your hips, you will tire very quickly in the leverage battle. Granted, it is much more important in Football to get leverage with proper hand placement and quick movement.

Thank you for clearing that up and being more specific I agree totally from the very little I watch here in Hawaii.
But scrum just looks like a big blob of guys or mosh pit actually moving around on the field fighting the ball lol.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jreff22:
But Ansah was going against college talent, while not easy, its not NFL talent. I cant think of many players that walked into the NFL without ever playing it...or really being familiar with it.

Jeff Stover, a shot putter from Oregon became a good defensive lineman for the 49ers.

He never played college football.

Not identical to Okoye, but similar.

But he lived in America and was probably familiar with football. Even playing backyard ball still gives you an idea of what to do and how the game works. Being a Brit I doubt he's even remotely familiar with the rules or "how it works". Yes he can learn but an American kid is always surrounded by football of some sorts, a foreigner its doubtful.

Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
Yeah I'm just trying to rebut the notion some seem to have that Okoye, if he stays with us, will be completely useless for two or three years. Definitely not saying it's going to be easy, but I think he is going to shock everyone.

I would say he would be useless for at least a year. Learning the rules, assignments, and fundamentals at NFL speed is probably like doing med school in 2 years.....real real hard lol.

Honestly I would take him to high school games and let him watch at a much slower pace.

Originally posted by jreff22:
I would say he would be useless for at least a year. Learning the rules, assignments, and fundamentals at NFL speed is probably like doing med school in 2 years.....real real hard lol.

Honestly I would take him to high school games and let him watch at a much slower pace.

Or becoming an Olympic discus thrower in two years.... Oh, wait.

Rugby scrums are different to trench warfare in that it's only really the front 3 in the scrum (2 props & 1 hooker...tee hee) who go head to head with their opposite number, the remaining 5 (2 locks, 2 flankers, 1 x No8) provide a cumulative push.

However this is all by the by anyway as he played winger anyway to take advantage of his athleticism.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Or becoming an Olympic discus thrower in two years.... Oh, wait.

Exactly what I thought when I read it xD although he might have been creating a diversity to illustrate the difference from perfecting discuss in two years, as opposed to med school. He's (Okoye) familiarized enough with universal and convertible concepts, based on his background of instant success. Ultimately, he will struggle w/ every aspect in preseason. And so will he in the two or so games allotted to him in the regular season. But on special teams he should assimilate right away. Conceptually, ST seems to be the most fluid and practical translation for him..

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by jreff22:

I would say he would be useless for at least a year. Learning the rules, assignments, and fundamentals at NFL speed is probably like doing med school in 2 years.....real real hard lol.

Honestly I would take him to high school games and let him watch at a much slower pace.

Or becoming an Olympic discus thrower in two years.... Oh, wait.

You guys keep saying this like its remotely the same. 22 guys running around in controlled chaos is a lot to take in. Spinning around and throwing a disc is not even close to mental requirement of playing in the NFL.