Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread

He'll have rookie problems and will drop some passes. So what!

IMO, in the long run he'll improve through excellent coaching, and make contributions to wins.

If JH wants him to wear Iron Mike's jersey # - he must be pretty tough. That's another component I'm really looking forward to - especially against Seattle.

Stop comparing Vance to Walker, guys. I get it, McDonald has a documented problem with drops and Walker dropped a LOT of passes last season. Still not a good comparison.

Walker never had great hands, he isn't a natural hands catcher. Why do you think he was drafted to play fullback despite being a wide receiver in college? Lulz. He was switched to tight end during training camp. That said, drops weren't a big issue with him until last season. Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree had more trouble with drops than Walker did early in their respective careers. You have to look past this last season and determine if it was a trend or an anomaly. For example, Frank Gore had 6 drops and only 17 catches in 2011, which is almost as bad as Walker's 2012 season.

Walker's 2012 season was an anomaly. He had not dropped more than 3 passes in a season before 2012. In 2010 he had more catches and targets than in 2012. In 2009 and 2007 he had the same number of receptions as 2012, but only one dropped pass in each of those seasons.

McDonald appears to be a better natural hands catcher than Walker, but has consistently struggled with drops. I would bet that it is a concentration issue, as he was expected to gain yards after the catch in his college offense. He caught a lot of bubble screens, for example. He likely just needs to be coached to secure the ball before running with it. This is just a guess based on the little I've seen and read. I wouldn't be shocked if I were wrong.

In any case, Walker should not be compared to McDonald. They are VERY different players, who just happen to play the same position. Personally, I think Vance is going to be the better of the two.

Originally posted by Wodwo:
Stop comparing Vance to Walker, guys. I get it, McDonald has a documented problem with drops and Walker dropped a LOT of passes last season. Still not a good comparison.

Walker never had great hands, he isn't a natural hands catcher. Why do you think he was drafted to play fullback despite being a wide receiver in college? Lulz. He was switched to tight end during training camp. That said, drops weren't a big issue with him until last season. Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree had more trouble with drops than Walker did early in their respective careers. You have to look past this last season and determine if it was a trend or an anomaly. For example, Frank Gore had 6 drops and only 17 catches in 2011, which is almost as bad as Walker's 2012 season.

Walker's 2012 season was an anomaly. He had not dropped more than 3 passes in a season before 2012. In 2010 he had more catches and targets than in 2012. In 2009 and 2007 he had the same number of receptions as 2012, but only one dropped pass in each of those seasons.

McDonald appears to be a better natural hands catcher than Walker, but has consistently struggled with drops. I would bet that it is a concentration issue, as he was expected to gain yards after the catch in his college offense. He caught a lot of bubble screens, for example. He likely just needs to be coached to secure the ball before running with it. This is just a guess based on the little I've seen and read. I wouldn't be shocked if I were wrong.

In any case, Walker should not be compared to McDonald. They are VERY different players, who just happen to play the same position. Personally, I think Vance is going to be the better of the two.

I agree they are no where near the same player. About as different stylistically as you could be at the same position. But I think coaching up is a possibility not all players respond the same way. If it was a given then we would just always draft the best athlete no matter sport because we could always coach em up right? Either way you like em obviously I like his potential. I'm one of the few going on a limb making a prediction. I predict that he is the 3rd TE this year and as we should be pushing for a Superbowl this year that's important.

I predict 20 receptions and 200 yards and 1 TD his rookie year. What are you all guessing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX9dKo8E574
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQq9Z4-TcC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8NtPYRgpuk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG9UdJsfHB0

I watched a little film on a lot of prospects before the draft but wanted to go in depth for the guys we drafted. A couple thoughts I have. Not saying I am 100% correct on all this, just what I see.

-Very aggressive blocking at times, seen him back off early at times, a few times I seen blocks w/ minimal effort but mostly very willing and very good blocker

-I'd like to see him lose a little lower body weight (butt and thigh area), tighten it up and that should help him get faster/quicker as well. He definitely needs to get faster/quicker imo. No doubt working with our group he will be in better shape, the best of his life actually. On 2nd thought it's hard to tell, but if he's that thick in the thighs and the butt it could be muscle as well, if that's it maybe a little addition by subtraction. Some time losing some muscle (like v.davis) makes you a better receiver because you are more flexible and it can make you quicker. The upper body is fine.

-Maybe it's because I haven't watched enough but it seems like he would rather run over guys to get open or use his body and sit down. Don't see him running past defenders, more of a Jason Witten sit down guy... a lot of 5-10 yard in's, out's and some 5-10 yard curls. Uses his body to shield defenders... A few times made nice catches in traffic and held onto it after getting hit because his body is so thick the defenders seem to take more of a blow than he does. He might not be a vernon davis type where he can outrun defenders and catch a 50 yard pass but I think he will be a good first down guy and maybe red zone guy, he will catch the ball and turn upfield and fight for yards. Keeping it underneath can move the chains as well.

-Can take handoffs in the backfield or catch bubble screens like Walker. Walker was probably faster though. So it's an option for us but doubt we use him that way much or if at all. He had a bunch of bobbles and drops on bubble screens, looked like he was worried about turning upfield and running before catching.

-As for the hands a lot of the drops/bobbles seemed to be on those bubble screens but seen him one hand a ball against baylor that led to a pick 6. Definitely has to work on catching the ball but a lot of guys on offense and defense young and old do. One thing I liked is that he is a hands catcher and not a body catcher.

Summary: Catches with his hands not his body, still needs work on catching but most of drops I seen where from bubble screens. Can do bubblescreens/hand offs in backfield but probably wont do many at this level. More of a Jason Witten sit down guy or a use your body to block out defenders than a vernon davis tight end who can burn you deep. Probably an underneath, 1st down, maybe red zone guy.. safety blanket... pretty good blocker and very willing... I think he could get tigther in the butt/thigh area, not sure if its' fat or muscle or both but losing some of it could make him faster.. can absorb blows and catch balls over the middle due to thick body... a lot of in's, out's from 5-10 yards and some curls but can turn upfield and will fight for extra yardage.

Originally posted by Need4Speed:
I agree they are no where near the same player. About as different stylistically as you could be at the same position. But I think coaching up is a possibility not all players respond the same way. If it was a given then we would just always draft the best athlete no matter sport because we could always coach em up right? Either way you like em obviously I like his potential. I'm one of the few going on a limb making a prediction. I predict that he is the 3rd TE this year and as we should be pushing for a Superbowl this year that's important.

I predict 20 receptions and 200 yards and 1 TD his rookie year. What are you all guessing?

Yeah, Walker needed a lot of coaching, he was a division II WR. Scored low on intelligence tests and had academic issues, but worked hard and was coachable.

I think Vance is a lock to be the second tight end and will take over Walker's motion role. It's difficult to predict statistics because I don't know how much they'll be throwing the ball this season. I keep going back and forth between thinking Harbaugh will stick to the formula he's always had success with (running) or if he'll open up the pass game because of Kaepernick. If you put a gun to my head right now, I'd predict around 30 receptions for 270 yards and 3 TDs.

I think they'll have him run short routes into zone coverage and try to break tackles for extra yardage. They'll probably run some screens, too. I don't expect him to develop as a deep threat this season. He might get a chance to run the ball, too.

Lulz, just read your analysis, Gore_21. Seems like we agree. It's funny that I posted my prediction right before reading your post.

Gore thanks for nice analysis, and if there is one thing we really need this yr it is a sit down , 8-10 yrds, move the chains type of guy. I can't believe that trent/JH didn't get him JUST exactly for that...among other things.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Need4Speed:
I agree they are no where near the same player. About as different stylistically as you could be at the same position. But I think coaching up is a possibility not all players respond the same way. If it was a given then we would just always draft the best athlete no matter sport because we could always coach em up right? Either way you like em obviously I like his potential. I'm one of the few going on a limb making a prediction. I predict that he is the 3rd TE this year and as we should be pushing for a Superbowl this year that's important.

I predict 20 receptions and 200 yards and 1 TD his rookie year. What are you all guessing?

Yeah, Walker needed a lot of coaching, he was a division II WR. Scored low on intelligence tests and had academic issues, but worked hard and was coachable.

I think Vance is a lock to be the second tight end and will take over Walker's motion role. It's difficult to predict statistics because I don't know how much they'll be throwing the ball this season. I keep going back and forth between thinking Harbaugh will stick to the formula he's always had success with (running) or if he'll open up the pass game because of Kaepernick. If you put a gun to my head right now, I'd predict around 30 receptions for 270 yards and 3 TDs.

I think they'll have him run short routes into zone coverage and try to break tackles for extra yardage. They'll probably run some screens, too. I don't expect him to develop as a deep threat this season. He might get a chance to run the ball, too.

Prior art, my friend.

Luck's attempts rose from 288 in his Sophomore year to 372 in 2010.

Harbaugh will get him 30 attempts a game.

Like what I read today

Originally posted by AmpLee:
Time to hit the jugs machine, Vance!

Nice

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
No way! You have him focus in building up to his potential as a TE that's it. Jennings even up there at age continues to do his job well

He's not going to be getting starter minutes @ TE. He's capable and willing to do whatever the team NEEDS him to do. Not trying to be disagreeable, but the reason we draft cerebral guys with good measurable and versatility, is of pertinence. Vance is a 2nd round pick who could very possibly be maturing as we speak at his craft, and what if he goes out like Gronkowski (drafted in similar fashion ) in his first season and plays much better than experts expected him to? With him essentially backing up VD (can't always run multiple TE sets)!? I suspect that At some point they see that, like with Okoye, "the creator created a beautiful man." and have to come up with new creative ways to utilize all of his many talents. On a side note, Okoye should undoubtedly become at the very least our jumbo fullback/TE.. Stifler: YESS!!' But back to Vance, starter quality players deserve starter minutes, and to be involved in the outcome of the game. The Miners aren't so leisure as to shy away from utilizing underutilized talent, elsewhere in the game. Vance is gonna be the shiznit, operating without any limits. Yallz needsda get over it already..

Originally posted by bdub2588:
Nice


He's not going to be getting starter minutes @ TE. He's capable and willing to do whatever the team NEEDS him to do. Not trying to be disagreeable, but the reason we draft cerebral guys with good measurable and versatility, is of pertinence. Vance is a 2nd round pick who could very possibly be maturing as we speak at his craft, and what if he goes out like Gronkowski (drafted in similar fashion ) in his first season and plays much better than experts expected him to? With him essentially backing up VD (can't always run multiple TE sets)!? I suspect that At some point they see that, like with Okoye, "the creator created a beautiful man." and have to come up with new creative ways to utilize all of his many talents. On a side note, Okoye should undoubtedly become at the very least our jumbo fullback/TE.. Stifler: YESS!!' But back to Vance, starter quality players deserve starter minutes, and to be involved in the outcome of the game. The Miners aren't so leisure as to shy away from utilizing underutilized talent, elsewhere in the game. Vance is gonna be the shiznit, operating without any limits. Yallz needsda get over it already..

Oh yeah. Another side note. We know that Vance has more compacted mass, is stronger, and is just as fast as Gronk.. But I still haven't computed the possibilities of how much smarter he must be than Gronk. Idk maybe Gronk just seems dumb as monkey spit, but that's just me Uhhhhh.. What was I saying? oh yes so every bit the specimen as Gronk, only with adaptability and a capacity to be an H-back without making so many mis-delanie-takes.. As Cronk probably wouldnt be able to do, if you used him in the same role. .... . I just cyber farted..

He reminds me of a bulked up Brent Jones.

Originally posted by SolRebe1:
Like what I read today

Yeah especially since he has bad hands

will get cut.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
will get cut.

Dude already is cut.