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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
All this attribution of wins entirely to the defense is nothing new, but it's tiring to hear about it. This is a team game, and Smith still has to do his job to get the team points. The defense does their job, and Smith does his, and the team wins.

Smith doesn't hang his defense out to dry with dumb plays that have them covering short fields. Timely play-making, toughness, smart decision-making, and a methodical "take-what-they-give" approach is how Smith operates. What I've noticed over the past several years is that Alex simply has this knack for "doing whatever it takes to get it done" in games. He hasn't won every single game, but it seems to be a fairly consistent trend that Smith seems to recognize what has to be done to get his team the win and he just goes out and does it.

Best post in this thread for a while, thanks.

This KC offense has had their struggles... which should be expected from a new team. 49ers fans should appreciate how this can be after 2011.

- The KC #1 and #2 TEs were injured and off the field 90% of the time. Fasano has been targeted 12 times and has 3 credited drops already.
- Their OL consists of an injured rookie RT, a C with only a few games of pro experience, and a LG ranked 63rd of all OGs in the game right now.
- Aside from a good run here or there, even Jamaal Charles has been less than effective on many runs. PFF has him ranked 23rd in RBs. Outsiders has him ranked 17th in success rate... and yes, much of this is due to the OL failing to open anything up.
- The Chiefs are tied with the SECOND MOST offensive penalties.
- The Chiefs are SIXTH MOST in team drops.

LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.
[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:15 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.

Cheifs average starting position on defense is at the 22. That's a yard less average than any other team in the league. Do you think having a longer field does anything for the defense at all? If that's not helping your defense out I don't know what to tell ya.
Originally posted by Joecool:
LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.

This was not a point of contention for me... though I will mirror what others say when stating that Alex rarely leaves his defense in crap situations via turnovers. This is a huge part of football that gets overlooked by those sucking on the toe of a QB like Romo.

Alex also needs to pick up his game... he isn't being completely left free from blame.. whether mentioned often or not. He is capable of better play despite all of the aforementioned issues that the offense is going through.

Why are you fighting this whole thing so hard anyway? What is there to even fight and what for? KC is 7-0 and doing it with a lot of new parts in place. They should be given credit for that. We get it... you hate Alex and are angry that he isn't falling on his face. Well... too bad... just get over it and stop trying to pin every flaw the team has on him. Whatever flaws they do have... they are working through them and still winning.
[ Edited by Mr.Mcgibblets on Oct 26, 2013 at 2:44 PM ]
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Empire49:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by csjwilkinson:
The better the Chiefs do the better. That's a gramatical nightmare but you catch my drift.

Anything that helps us is good. The Chiefs suck and I'm waiting for the bubble to burst but lets get the required number of wins out of them first. That was my thinking early in the season.

if you think the chiefs suck, well, maybe you should take up a new hobby

Chiefs are very similar to 2011 Niners and that team went 13-3 and should have won the Super Bowl. Now at 7-0 they are very good but I don't think they can beat us even at 5-2

Wouldn't want to play them in KC.

The only decent team KC has played is Dallas, and that team is far from good. I'm glad KC is winning, but it's meaningless unless they can beat a quality opponent. Granted, they have not faced a quality opponent yet, so it isn't their fault of course.

I could say the same about Denver or the 9ers.

The difference is the Broncos and 9ers basically blow mediocre teams out (like they should). The Chiefs squeak by mediocre teams, a sure sign of a pretender, IMO.

funny i dont remember you, or anyone else, calling the 2011 niners a pretender

At the time us Niner fans (including Harbaugh) were blind to the fact, but in 2012 it was totally clear why Harbaugh got fed up.
Originally posted by verb1der:
At the time us Niner fans (including Harbaugh) were blind to the fact, but in 2012 it was totally clear why Harbaugh got fed up.

Yeah really... how could JIm NOT be fed up with these numbers... v

Smith was 27 of 29 (.931) for 313 yards, four touchdowns, no interceptions and a 151.2 rating in his final passes as a 49er.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/09/23/aldon-...-hoyer-mmqb/3/
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by verb1der:
At the time us Niner fans (including Harbaugh) were blind to the fact, but in 2012 it was totally clear why Harbaugh got fed up.

Yeah really... how could JIm NOT be fed up with these numbers... v

Smith was 27 of 29 (.931) for 313 yards, four touchdowns, no interceptions and a 151.2 rating in his final passes as a 49er.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/09/23/aldon-...-hoyer-mmqb/3/


All it ever comes down to is this...

Can you throw the deep ball? Can you run a 4.4?

If the answer to both are "no"...then you suck. You are overrated and a liability. Regardless of your current stature as the winningest QB the last 3 seasons.

Amazing how a guy can be bailed out by not one but TWO stellar defenses...especially since the second one was sooooooo good before he got there.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
All this attribution of wins entirely to the defense is nothing new, but it's tiring to hear about it. This is a team game, and Smith still has to do his job to get the team points. The defense does their job, and Smith does his, and the team wins.

Smith doesn't hang his defense out to dry with dumb plays that have them covering short fields. Timely play-making, toughness, smart decision-making, and a methodical "take-what-they-give" approach is how Smith operates. What I've noticed over the past several years is that Alex simply has this knack for "doing whatever it takes to get it done" in games. He hasn't won every single game, but it seems to be a fairly consistent trend that Smith seems to recognize what has to be done to get his team the win and he just goes out and does it.

Winningest QB in the NFL over the past 3 season. Yeah, he must suck.

Smith's play typically prevents his team from being in a big hole where they need to score lots of points. But he's put up points plenty of times -- more than enough in my opinion -- to prove he can hang with the best in the game when needed. There are so, so many games you can point to that show just how good this guy is. I know some will point to a few poor games and act like those completely wipe out any good ones, but that's just silliness. Top QBs have rough games sometimes, and Smith will have have his share just like the rest.

Smith's approach most definitely changes the pace of games and you can just tell. Smith has a great understanding of the game and situational strategies. He is one of the best QBs in the NFL at pre-snap reads. Just one example I recall recently was an article where he talked about recognizing on the final 49ers offensive play in the Super Bowl that there was no counter called to what Baltimore had put on defense.

Anyways, it'll be interesting to see what the Chiefs look like at the end of the season. This is year one under Andy Reid, so you never know, they might fully gel by playoff time.

Another good point. Some people like to point to stats and say see? But Alex does things with the pre-snap that makes the players around him better..specifically in the running game. It doesn't always show up in a stat line, but it does help the team get wins.

In fact, I remember reading an interview from Andy basically saying that Alex is doing everything he hoped and is covering up for a lot of things that he's not getting credit for and get blamed for things that weren't on him, but being a leader is taking the heat. I'm sure that people will take that as a coach covering for his QB...but the reality is, he put other players indirectly under the bus to say those words...

This team on offense has not jelled yet. They didn't have the advantage of a "camp alex" and they look okay already. They get better and they're going to be a force in the play-offs. Till then, I don't expect Alex to show much...except when he needs to.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Best post in this thread for a while, thanks.

This KC offense has had their struggles... which should be expected from a new team. 49ers fans should appreciate how this can be after 2011.

- The KC #1 and #2 TEs were injured and off the field 90% of the time. Fasano has been targeted 12 times and has 3 credited drops already.
- Their OL consists of an injured rookie RT, a C with only a few games of pro experience, and a LG ranked 63rd of all OGs in the game right now.
- Aside from a good run here or there, even Jamaal Charles has been less than effective on many runs. PFF has him ranked 23rd in RBs. Outsiders has him ranked 17th in success rate... and yes, much of this is due to the OL failing to open anything up.
- The Chiefs are tied with the SECOND MOST offensive penalties.
- The Chiefs are SIXTH MOST in team drops.

The first point is interesting, I wonder how much better KC would be with a TE like Vernon Davis on the roster. As opposed to what KC has now at the position.
Just get me at least one more win and I am happy. But I have to say that I am happy for Alex and the fact that he has continued to win. I always thought he handled the sh** he got with class. Seeing him win brings me satisfaction and joy for him and his family. He is a great guy and he is 1 win away from getting me another 2nd round pick. Thank you Alex for 2011, 2012 and my 2013 2nd round pick
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.

This was not a point of contention for me... though I will mirror what others say when stating that Alex rarely leaves his defense in crap situations via turnovers. This is a huge part of football that gets overlooked by those sucking on the toe of a QB like Romo.

Alex also needs to pick up his game... he isn't being completely left free from blame.. whether mentioned often or not. He is capable of better play despite all of the aforementioned issues that the offense is going through.

Why are you fighting this whole thing so hard anyway? What is there to even fight and what for? KC is 7-0 and doing it with a lot of new parts in place. They should be given credit for that. We get it... you hate Alex and are angry that he isn't falling on his face. Well... too bad... just get over it and stop trying to pin every flaw the team has on him. Whatever flaws they do have... they are working through them and still winning.

I find it interesting whenever you mention KC's offense struggling, you point out flaws in nearly every offensive position but the QB. I'm just saying, but, nah, nevermind...the QB can't play a big role in a team's offense struggling...no way...that just doesn't happen.

Guess how many teams have a QB who can throw 5 or less INT's (Smith has 4)? Answer: 18.

  1. you have been stressing that the offense has been struggling because of the TE, WR, OL. RB. Penalties, and drops.
  2. you have credited the QB as to why the defense is playing so well due to ball protection yet 18 teams have 1INT less, just as many, or 1 INT more than KC QB.

Yes, Smith plays a huge role in not fumbling the ball but throwing just 1 INT less than ten teams in the league isn't enough to concluding that the defense is performing much better this year.

Here's why the defense is performing better this year. They only allowed 4.8 yards per play, which is 2nd. Last year, they allowed 5.9 yards per play, which was 5th from the worst. You think the defensive coordinator had something to do with it?

I think Smith plays a role in providing field position but the yards per play, he has nothing to do with.

There are also negatives in the way Alex Smith plays, which leads to why the KC offense is struggling. He does forfeit drives for the sake of field position. Which is fine but how many missed opportunities does that also forfeit. And this is why the offense appears to be struggling.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I find it interesting whenever you mention KC's offense struggling, you point out flaws in nearly every offensive position but the QB. I'm just saying, but, nah, nevermind...the QB can't play a big role in a team's offense struggling...no way...that just doesn't happen.

Guess how many teams have a QB who can throw 5 or less INT's (Smith has 4)? Answer: 18.

  1. you have been stressing that the offense has been struggling because of the TE, WR, OL. RB. Penalties, and drops.
  2. you have credited the QB as to why the defense is playing so well due to ball protection yet 18 teams have 1INT less, just as many, or 1 INT more than KC QB.

Yes, Smith plays a huge role in not fumbling the ball but throwing just 1 INT less than ten teams in the league isn't enough to concluding that the defense is performing much better this year.

Here's why the defense is performing better this year. They only allowed 4.8 yards per play, which is 2nd. Last year, they allowed 5.9 yards per play, which was 5th from the worst. You think the defensive coordinator had something to do with it?

I think Smith plays a role in providing field position but the yards per play, he has nothing to do with.

There are also negatives in the way Alex Smith plays, which leads to why the KC offense is struggling. He does forfeit drives for the sake of field position. Which is fine but how many missed opportunities does that also forfeit. And this is why the offense appears to be struggling.

You didn't watch the KC games did you...
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I find it interesting whenever you mention KC's offense struggling, you point out flaws in nearly every offensive position but the QB. I'm just saying, but, nah, nevermind...the QB can't play a big role in a team's offense struggling...no way...that just doesn't happen.

Guess how many teams have a QB who can throw 5 or less INT's (Smith has 4)? Answer: 18.

  1. you have been stressing that the offense has been struggling because of the TE, WR, OL. RB. Penalties, and drops.
  2. you have credited the QB as to why the defense is playing so well due to ball protection yet 18 teams have 1INT less, just as many, or 1 INT more than KC QB.

Yes, Smith plays a huge role in not fumbling the ball but throwing just 1 INT less than ten teams in the league isn't enough to concluding that the defense is performing much better this year.

Here's why the defense is performing better this year. They only allowed 4.8 yards per play, which is 2nd. Last year, they allowed 5.9 yards per play, which was 5th from the worst. You think the defensive coordinator had something to do with it?

I think Smith plays a role in providing field position but the yards per play, he has nothing to do with.

There are also negatives in the way Alex Smith plays, which leads to why the KC offense is struggling. He does forfeit drives for the sake of field position. Which is fine but how many missed opportunities does that also forfeit. And this is why the offense appears to be struggling.

You didn't watch the KC games did you...

Lol. Good one. Did you know SF ran the ball more this year in the first seven games than last year. SF also has weaker WRs yet still has scored more points and made more big plays.

My point, There are plays that Smith struggles with. Those are the plays he will rarely attempt which is why the offense will always appear to struggle.
[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 26, 2013 at 9:24 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I find it interesting whenever you mention KC's offense struggling, you point out flaws in nearly every offensive position but the QB. I'm just saying, but, nah, nevermind...the QB can't play a big role in a team's offense struggling...no way...that just doesn't happen.

Guess how many teams have a QB who can throw 5 or less INT's (Smith has 4)? Answer: 18.

  1. you have been stressing that the offense has been struggling because of the TE, WR, OL. RB. Penalties, and drops.
  2. you have credited the QB as to why the defense is playing so well due to ball protection yet 18 teams have 1INT less, just as many, or 1 INT more than KC QB.

Yes, Smith plays a huge role in not fumbling the ball but throwing just 1 INT less than ten teams in the league isn't enough to concluding that the defense is performing much better this year.

Here's why the defense is performing better this year. They only allowed 4.8 yards per play, which is 2nd. Last year, they allowed 5.9 yards per play, which was 5th from the worst. You think the defensive coordinator had something to do with it?

I think Smith plays a role in providing field position but the yards per play, he has nothing to do with.

There are also negatives in the way Alex Smith plays, which leads to why the KC offense is struggling. He does forfeit drives for the sake of field position. Which is fine but how many missed opportunities does that also forfeit. And this is why the offense appears to be struggling.

You didn't watch the KC games did you...

Lol. Good one. Did you know SF ran the ball more this year in the first seven games than last year. SF also has weaker WRs yet still has scored more points and made more big plays.

My point, There are plays that Smith struggles with. Those are the plays he will rarely attempt which is why the offense will always appear to struggle.

I don't agree that KC has better receivers. The body of work there just isn't impressive dating back to the past few seasons. Boldin has been a consistent performer, even on a run-first team at Baltimore. And Vernon and McDonald vs. the UDFA McGrath and, well, nobody else (Kelce is on IR and Fasano has been hurt too) is an obvious win for the 49ers -- so I think you could actually make the argument we have much better weapons. But to be ultra conservative, what if we were to just call it a wash.

I just think the KC offense is not nearly as bad as some would think. The 49ers are ranked 17th with 335 YPG and 5.5 YPP. The Chiefs are right behind at 19th with 330 YPG and 4.9 YPP. That yards per play number is actually higher than the Patriots currently. KC has one of the worst pass-blocking lines in the NFL (22nd per Football Outsiders). By contrast, their line grades out at the 2nd best in run-blocking (per FootballOutsiders). Right now the team plays to its OL's strength. They cannot pass block to save their life. I've been impressed how well Smith has evaded pressure, and KC is lucky he's so athletic or their number of sacks given up would be enormous right now.

Smith's approach may lead to lower numbers, but I don't think you can say he's causing KC's offense to struggle. I think a simple analysis would allow one to piece together why they're not doing better:

1. OL has severe struggles in pass-blocking. Long-developing, deep routes are almost impossible to execute in this case.
2. Drops are killer. Dropping critical passes for 1st downs and having to punt obviously means less offensive yards.
3. No real receiving threat outside of Bowe. No TEs. Again, a weak group here obviously hurts the passing game.
4. The outrageous number of penalties severely hampers the offense. When your OL cannot pass block, and you put yourself in obvious passing downs you are at a serious disadvantage. The defense can easily scheme against you then. Not only that, but the problem is compounded by receivers that struggle to get open, and/or when they do, them dropping a critical 1st-down conversion pass kills the drive.

It's easy to knee-jerk blame Smith because he's the QB, but it's not that simple. His approach to the game has an affect on his stats in SOME games, but overall, a deeper analysis of the team offense indicates he actually has little responsibility for the offense not being higher-ranked, and rather actually helps somewhat cover up some of its weaknesses.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
All this attribution of wins entirely to the defense is nothing new, but it's tiring to hear about it. This is a team game, and Smith still has to do his job to get the team points. The defense does their job, and Smith does his, and the team wins.

Smith doesn't hang his defense out to dry with dumb plays that have them covering short fields. Timely play-making, toughness, smart decision-making, and a methodical "take-what-they-give" approach is how Smith operates. What I've noticed over the past several years is that Alex simply has this knack for "doing whatever it takes to get it done" in games. He hasn't won every single game, but it seems to be a fairly consistent trend that Smith seems to recognize what has to be done to get his team the win and he just goes out and does it.

Best post in this thread for a while, thanks.

This KC offense has had their struggles... which should be expected from a new team. 49ers fans should appreciate how this can be after 2011.

- The KC #1 and #2 TEs were injured and off the field 90% of the time. Fasano has been targeted 12 times and has 3 credited drops already.
- Their OL consists of an injured rookie RT, a C with only a few games of pro experience, and a LG ranked 63rd of all OGs in the game right now.
- Aside from a good run here or there, even Jamaal Charles has been less than effective on many runs. PFF has him ranked 23rd in RBs. Outsiders has him ranked 17th in success rate... and yes, much of this is due to the OL failing to open anything up.
- The Chiefs are tied with the SECOND MOST offensive penalties.
- The Chiefs are SIXTH MOST in team drops.

LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.


the offense has had several long drives in the 4th quarter of games...helps the defense by keeping them off the field
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
LOL! You just listed a weakness just about every except for THE most important offensive position. Alex Smith has a pattern of being around subpar offensive talent or execution.

As for the KC defense, do tell me what part of Smiths game helps that defense play better? Is it INTs? Is it long drives? What is it? I just want to know which excuse it is so I can easily pull up some better numbers than Smiths but a weaker defense statistically.

This was not a point of contention for me... though I will mirror what others say when stating that Alex rarely leaves his defense in crap situations via turnovers. This is a huge part of football that gets overlooked by those sucking on the toe of a QB like Romo.

Alex also needs to pick up his game... he isn't being completely left free from blame.. whether mentioned often or not. He is capable of better play despite all of the aforementioned issues that the offense is going through.

Why are you fighting this whole thing so hard anyway? What is there to even fight and what for? KC is 7-0 and doing it with a lot of new parts in place. They should be given credit for that. We get it... you hate Alex and are angry that he isn't falling on his face. Well... too bad... just get over it and stop trying to pin every flaw the team has on him. Whatever flaws they do have... they are working through them and still winning.

I find it interesting whenever you mention KC's offense struggling, you point out flaws in nearly every offensive position but the QB. I'm just saying, but, nah, nevermind...the QB can't play a big role in a team's offense struggling...no way...that just doesn't happen.

Guess how many teams have a QB who can throw 5 or less INT's (Smith has 4)? Answer: 18.

  1. you have been stressing that the offense has been struggling because of the TE, WR, OL. RB. Penalties, and drops.
  2. you have credited the QB as to why the defense is playing so well due to ball protection yet 18 teams have 1INT less, just as many, or 1 INT more than KC QB.
Yes, Smith plays a huge role in not fumbling the ball but throwing just 1 INT less than ten teams in the league isn't enough to concluding that the defense is performing much better this year.

Here's why the defense is performing better this year. They only allowed 4.8 yards per play, which is 2nd. Last year, they allowed 5.9 yards per play, which was 5th from the worst. You think the defensive coordinator had something to do with it?

I think Smith plays a role in providing field position but the yards per play, he has nothing to do with.

There are also negatives in the way Alex Smith plays, which leads to why the KC offense is struggling. He does forfeit drives for the sake of field position. Which is fine but how many missed opportunities does that also forfeit. And this is why the offense appears to be struggling.

I will clue you in on something joe---as a football fan who respects alex smith a ton, and thinks he is a better quarterback than many give him credit for being, I am not unaware of his "flaws"==every qb has flaws---many alex supporters don't spend a lot of time discussing his "flaws" because there is a always going to be guys like you harping on them...and not always fairly, e.g. the 8 year argument which is a fallacy given that 2 of those years were riddled with injury, one of which he didn't even play...also smith's career turnaround started before harbaugh arrived...he took time to develop, something fans don't seem willing to account for, yet they count the number of starts for other qbs in trying to explain performance