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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by GNielsen:
You're engaging in mind-reading. Why don't you just take the posts at face value. Again, I'd like the Niners to get the best possible 2nd round pick. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I like Alex Smith, but he plays for another team these days. I'm not a fan of that team. The only team for which I root is the NIners. That's all there is to it. There is no secret agenda.

I'd rather not speculate or try to mind read anybody else. I'm just pointing out what, in my opinion, is a logical fallacy: calling yourself a Niner fan and, at the same time, hoping for something which is not helpful to the Niner team.

Myopic is not a synonym for fan. You can actually enjoy and root for various players and teams...and still want your favorite to win. I am using your comments directly, not mind reading. You come onto a KC thread and say, "Now, if you're more of a Chiefs fan than a Niner fan, I get it, but if you're more of a NIner fan, you'd like a number as close to 8 as possible." Sounds like your telling us what a real fan would think doesn't it?
Again, I don't see you refuting the logic of my statement. I don't see you arguing about the statement on it's merits. If you see something wrong with the logic of the statement, let's hear it. I just see you getting hot and bothered by it. That usually means that the statement touches a nerve. And "myopic" is not really the right word. The second meaning is lack of foresight or a shortsighted plan. That actually has nothing to do with what I'm posting. If anything, someone who is a Niner fan, but wants the Chiefs to win more than 8 games would be more in keeping with the meaning of the word myopic, ie, lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning, as in "I want the Chiefs to win lots of games... oh, oh, that means the Niners don't get as good a draft pick." If you're going to use these 75-cent words, at least use them correctly.
We can go all day on this, dtg, but now I've got to take a break. Try not to let yourself be so bothered by my opinions. That's all they are - my opinions.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
2 more is all we need and is what any Niner fan should be hoping for. Now, if you're more of a Chiefs fan than a Niner fan, I get it, but if you're more of a NIner fan, you'd like a number as close to 8 as possible.

As a 49er fan, I would hope the Chiefs win only 8 games. However, as a football fan for over 30 years, I find the Chiefs story this year to be one of the more interesting and compelling stories in recent years. Lots to talk about and analyze. Also, I find the comparison between this year's Chiefs team and the 49ers in 2011 very close. In both cases, the incoming coach took over a loaded roster that should have won a lot more games than it did under the previous incompetent HC. Of course we all know that but it is still a part of a rather compelling story.

Personally, I have no problem rooting for the Chiefs to do well. I have always liked Andy Reid and felt he was one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the league. I also like the fact that Alex Smith, a truly nice guy is playing an integral role in the turn around of the KC franchise.

So if that makes me look like I have a split personality, so be it. Frankly, it should not make a great qualitative difference if the pick the 49ers receive is a 20 or a 28, the group of college players typically available in that range are of very similar overall value. If Baalke's staff does a good job scouting the talent, we should get a very good player anywhere along that range.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Again, I don't see you refuting the logic of my statement. I don't see you arguing about the statement on it's merits. If you see something wrong with the logic of the statement, let's hear it. I just see you getting hot and bothered by it. That usually means that the statement touches a nerve. And "myopic" is not really the right word. The second meaning is lack of foresight or a shortsighted plan. That actually has nothing to do with what I'm posting. If anything, someone who is a Niner fan, but wants the Chiefs to win more than 8 games would be more in keeping with the meaning of the word myopic, ie, lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning, as in "I want the Chiefs to win lots of games... oh, oh, that means the Niners don't get as good a draft pick." If you're going to use these 75-cent words, at least use them correctly.

Now resorting to personal insult? 75 cent words? I have a dictionary (they're free online). Myopic fits someone who wants a single result due to a fuzzy and narrow view. I can actually hold two views on a single issue rather than always thinking in terms of us versus them...even though I want the niners to win all their games. For instance, it would be more fun for me, as a fan, to see a 9er/KC Super Bowl than for the 9ers to pick a bit higher in the second round.

myopic - definition of myopic by the Free Online Dictionary ...www.thefreedictionary.com/myopic‎
"A visual defect in which distant objects appear blurred because their images are focused in front of the retina rather than on it; nearsightedness. Also called short sight."

I've continued this too long due to my respect for your posts elsewhere. In this thread you seem to be an angry troll who seeks out Alex fans you disapprove of...perhaps for reasons, but totally unnecessary. Have there been childish comments by fans of A Smith? Sure...but it's pretty easy to ignore them, just as it is to ignore the persistent attackers of Smith.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 17, 2013 at 4:56 PM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
2 more is all we need and is what any Niner fan should be hoping for. Now, if you're more of a Chiefs fan than a Niner fan, I get it, but if you're more of a NIner fan, you'd like a number as close to 8 as possible.

As a 49er fan, I would hope the Chiefs win only 8 games. However, as a football fan for over 30 years, I find the Chiefs story this year to be one of the more interesting and compelling stories in recent years. Lots to talk about and analyze. Also, I find the comparison between this year's Chiefs team and the 49ers in 2011 very close. In both cases, the incoming coach took over a loaded roster that should have won a lot more games than it did under the previous incompetent HC. Of course we all know that but it is still a part of a rather compelling story.

Personally, I have no problem rooting for the Chiefs to do well. I have always liked Andy Reid and felt he was one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the league. I also like the fact that Alex Smith, a truly nice guy is playing an integral role in the turn around of the KC franchise.

So if that makes me look like I have a split personality, so be it. Frankly, it should not make a great qualitative difference if the pick the 49ers receive is a 20 or a 28, the group of college players typically available in that range are of very similar overall value. If Baalke's staff does a good job scouting the talent, we should get a very good player anywhere along that range.

Good post. And you're right. At the end of the day, an 8-8 pick is probably mid to high teens or low 20's anyway, so why sweat it. I'm ambivalent about it because a higher pick is a higher pick and has more intrinsic value. But, it's probably not going to end up making much difference. Hell, they'll probably use one of their two 2nd round picks to move up in the first round anyway. I also agree with you about the Chiefs story this year. It is compelling and the added juice is that you like to see Smith do well and flourish. I'm convinced. I shouldn't be such a red-ass about it.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
For instance, it would be more fun for me, as a fan, to see a 9er/KC Super Bowl than for the 9ers to pick a bit higher in the second round.

I wouldn't want that to happen. It's not that I'm rooting for Alex Smith to fail this season. I wouldn't like to have to root against him. That wouldn't feel good. Besides, you may have noticed that I've changed my mind on this entire subject. I hope I'm entitled to do that. I've been convinced that it doesn't make enough difference to get worried about.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
I've continued this too long due to my respect for your posts elsewhere.

I appreciate that. Thank you. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
For instance, it would be more fun for me, as a fan, to see a 9er/KC Super Bowl than for the 9ers to pick a bit higher in the second round.

I wouldn't want that to happen. It's not that I'm rooting for Alex Smith to fail this season. I wouldn't like to have to root against him. That wouldn't feel good. Besides, you may have noticed that I've changed my mind on this entire subject. I hope I'm entitled to do that. I've been convinced that it doesn't make enough difference to get worried about.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
I've continued this too long due to my respect for your posts elsewhere.

I appreciate that. Thank you. I hope there are no hard feelings.

No hard feelings! I do get annoyed with the persistent negativity in both directions and have some strong opinions I just do not interject because they would be adding to the negativity...and I really like the niners and what KC is doing, so want to stay as positive as possible for both teams.
Alice Smith 4 life!

Seriously though... any thoughts on Bowe coming to SF? Rumor has it he's not fitting in well in the Alex Smith/Andy Reid offense... We could really use a deep threat on the outside...
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Alice Smith 4 life!

Seriously though... any thoughts on Bowe coming to SF? Rumor has it he's not fitting in well in the Alex Smith/Andy Reid offense... We could really use a deep threat on the outside...

bowe isnt a deep threat--and why would the niners want a guy that cant be happy with 6-0 because he doesnt loike how he fits in the offense...sounds like somebody more concerned with self than team--though i am not gong to be too harsh on bowe based on a unlinked "rumour"
[ Edited by hofer36 on Oct 17, 2013 at 5:54 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Alice Smith 4 life!

Seriously though... any thoughts on Bowe coming to SF? Rumor has it he's not fitting in well in the Alex Smith/Andy Reid offense... We could really use a deep threat on the outside...

Not happening. Bowe was just signed long-term back in March. KC would have a ton of dead money against their cap if they traded him.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Alice Smith 4 life!

Seriously though... any thoughts on Bowe coming to SF? Rumor has it he's not fitting in well in the Alex Smith/Andy Reid offense... We could really use a deep threat on the outside...

Not happening. Bowe was just signed long-term back in March. KC would have a ton of dead money against their cap if they traded him.

Bowe for Boldin would be a fairly even trade...though I doubt JH and TB are that crazy! Can't think of who the 9ers would give up for a trade...
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 17, 2013 at 5:57 PM ]
I don't see the Niners doing anything rash for anyone but a speedster who can stretch the field. That's what they need. And, they don't have a lot of available money so these guys like Bowe or Nicks who are on contract are really out of the question.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'm not telling you or anyone anything. I'm giving my opinion. All I'm saying is that a Niner fan wants what's best for the Niners. A Chiefs fan wants what's best for the Chiefs. A Seahawk fan wants what's best for the Seahawks. Am I wrong about that?

My only point is that if you'd rather see the Chiefs go 16-0 than 8-8, then by virtue of that, you'd rather the Chiefs win than the Niners get a better pick. Do you see anything wrong with that logic? If you do, I'd like to see the reasoning.

And, if you are a fan of more than one team, then the question is which team are you MORE of a fan for? If you're MORE of a Chiefs fan than a Niners fan, that's fine in my opinion. This is, after all, a Chiefs thread, so it's not surprising to find Chiefs fans here. But MY OPINION IS that if you'd rather see the Chiefs win a lot of games than the NIners get the best possible draft pick, don't at the same time pretend the NIners are more important to you than the Chiefs. I'd call that hypocrisy. And again, that's just my opinion.

I see something wrong with this logic, or at least with the connected logic you've applied which is that preferring more chief wins to a slight increase in 49er draft pick
value means one is more a fan of the Chiefs than the 49ers.

As a parallel, if you could choose between finding $5 yourself, or having a person who is in a bad financial situation find $1000, which do you choose? By your logic, someone who chooses the latter is more concerned with some stranger than with themselves, and so any real person would take the $5.

There are degrees at play between a team winning games, energizing a fanbase, critical validation and career success for a player who should be much admired in these parts...and a team getting to pick a few spots higher in a draft. They are not equal outcomes.

If someone wants to cheer for the Chiefs in a head-to-head with SF, with the same outcome on the line (e.g. a super bowl, or both teams needing to win to make the playoffs), then you can legitimately claim they are more Chief Fan than Niner Fan. In this situation, you cannot.
Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'm not telling you or anyone anything. I'm giving my opinion. All I'm saying is that a Niner fan wants what's best for the Niners. A Chiefs fan wants what's best for the Chiefs. A Seahawk fan wants what's best for the Seahawks. Am I wrong about that?

My only point is that if you'd rather see the Chiefs go 16-0 than 8-8, then by virtue of that, you'd rather the Chiefs win than the Niners get a better pick. Do you see anything wrong with that logic? If you do, I'd like to see the reasoning.

And, if you are a fan of more than one team, then the question is which team are you MORE of a fan for? If you're MORE of a Chiefs fan than a Niners fan, that's fine in my opinion. This is, after all, a Chiefs thread, so it's not surprising to find Chiefs fans here. But MY OPINION IS that if you'd rather see the Chiefs win a lot of games than the NIners get the best possible draft pick, don't at the same time pretend the NIners are more important to you than the Chiefs. I'd call that hypocrisy. And again, that's just my opinion.

I see something wrong with this logic, or at least with the connected logic you've applied which is that preferring more chief wins to a slight increase in 49er draft pick
value means one is more a fan of the Chiefs than the 49ers.

As a parallel, if you could choose between finding $5 yourself, or having a person who is in a bad financial situation find $1000, which do you choose? By your logic, someone who chooses the latter is more concerned with some stranger than with themselves, and so any real person would take the $5.

There are degrees at play between a team winning games, energizing a fanbase, critical validation and career success for a player who should be much admired in these parts...and a team getting to pick a few spots higher in a draft. They are not equal outcomes.

If someone wants to cheer for the Chiefs in a head-to-head with SF, with the same outcome on the line (e.g. a super bowl, or both teams needing to win to make the playoffs), then you can legitimately claim they are more Chief Fan than Niner Fan. In this situation, you cannot.

He actually changed his stance a little on this issue in post #3741.