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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Not many QB's are coming back down from 24. I still like to see the stat on that. People like to act being down 24 happens every game but it doesn't. If a QB plays in that many games where his team is down 24, that means the team sucks entirely.

Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.
[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 26, 2013 at 6:55 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Just last year, the Colts were 2-3 when the opponent scored 24 or more. You will probably find teams with better QBs with a much better than a 2-27 record when this happens. Alex is not that QB. He depends on too many things happening to get the win. He won't lose it for you but if the opponent scores 24 or more, he won't help you win it.

Hofer just listed four games off the top of his head that disprove this...but whatever...

Originally posted by dj43:
Harbaugh chose a QB that could "drive the ball" down the field as opposed to working the short zones to move the ball. OK. That's fine but when you don't have downfield receivers open, what do you do?

I watched the Chicago/Pittsburgh game tonight. Jay Cutler, with one of the strongest arms in football, came out with a dink and dunk approach and dominated the play the first half. He never challenged anyone deep the entire first half. Marc Trestman is a former 49er assistant who learned the Walsh offense while here. He is now using it with Cannon Arm Cutler to good advantage. Cutler always seems to have an immediate option in the short zones as soon as he gets the ball. For a guy who has been pounded over the past three years because his coach mainly wanted him to "drive the ball" down the field, Cutler is happier and healthier than he has been in years.

Jim Harbaugh? Are you listening?

My greatest regret with Harbaugh...he is not a pure WCO guy. There needs to be a viable short option on every play! KC's receivers looked so darn good last week because they were working in unison, helping get open. It shouldn't be just a one on one battle because the 9ers don't have Green and Megatron. Right now Defenses don't have to worry about anyone except VD (who was out) and Boldin (doubled). If they ran more brushes and picks (legal ones) they would have greater success.

I was thinking this is not just WR coaching but system or scheme. Just a super simple passing game approach as opposed to the more complex running game. Is Roman one dimensional?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.

Think about it for a second. Not many teams are going to win being 24 points down plain and simple. Just because Luck and Kap did it, it doesn't mean it's a constant. Doesn't mean they are going to keep doing that. Let's not forget Kap took over a loaded team.

Also, what was that stat about Alex having the most 4th quarter comebacks? I believe he has the most 4th quarter comebacks in X year span. I'm not sure the exact years. He's very capable.

at the West Coast Offense sound bite.
Originally posted by 9erempire:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Luck already has 2 under his belt. Kap has at least 3. Not too many QBs will only win 2-27 if the opponent scores more than or equal 24. Just admit, Alex has some weak areas. It seems as if there is an excuse for anything brought up making it appear as if Alex can do everything if he wanted to.

Think about it for a second. Not many teams are going to win being 24 points down plain and simple. Just because Luck and Kap did it, it doesn't mean it's a constant. Doesn't mean they are going to keep doing that. Let's not forget Kap took over a loaded team.

Also, what was that stat about Alex having the most 4th quarter comebacks? I believe he has the most 4th quarter comebacks in X year span. I'm not sure the exact years. He's very capable.

What does comebacks have to do with the point I am trying to make. My point is that Alex heavily depends on his defense keeping the opponent under 24 more than other top QB's. Without checking the stats, I would dare say a team that scores 20 vs Alex's defense as a VERY high chance of winning. Alex on any team with an average defense is not a winning QB. He must have a top ranked defense to get those wins to be your "QB that knows how to win". He is a master if he knows the opponent won't score more than, let's even lower it down to 17 points. But he is not the guy who can win on a team that allows around 17-24 points.

I just showed you two VERY young but good QB's already have more wins than Alex when the opponent scores 24 and your reply was "that's only 2". Really? These are inexperienced QB's that are being compared to an 8 year veteran. You can go ahead and take a look a the top 10 QB's in the league and it will be very easy to determine they can overcome a bad defense and win shootouts on a consistent basis.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
An excellent throw by any account! Threw it where neither defender could get a hand on it. There were a couple of those in this game and they happened when the team needed them. Would be nice if all could appreciate the talents a QB has rather than harping on his "limitations."

his only limitation at QB is perception by the public. Which has grown to be enamoured with black quarterbacks at the expense of white quarterbacks who are less than extraordinary. This is not to go to the other extreme and say that the likes of Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are bad, but Vick, "RG3" and Josh Freeman are s**tty. Does anyone remember the Nate Davis craze? lololol
What happens if Kaep goes 1-3 tonight?
Originally posted by Forkenick:
What happens if Kaep goes 1-3 tonight?

the NAACP will sue the NFL
Originally posted by Souz123:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
An excellent throw by any account! Threw it where neither defender could get a hand on it. There were a couple of those in this game and they happened when the team needed them. Would be nice if all could appreciate the talents a QB has rather than harping on his "limitations."

his only limitation at QB is perception by the public. Which has grown to be enamoured with black quarterbacks at the expense of white quarterbacks who are less than extraordinary. This is not to go to the other extreme and say that the likes of Russell Wilson and Kaepernick are bad, but Vick, "RG3" and Josh Freeman are s**tty. Does anyone remember the Nate Davis craze? lololol

You really going that route, bruh?!?!?!?!?!?!?

- 98
Originally posted by kidash98:
You really going that route, bruh?!?!?!?!?!?!?

- 98

Sorry but a lot of black QBs are now getting a lot more credit than they are due. It was the opposite 20, even 10 years ago.. but any1 who thinks black QBs now are discriminated against is just crazy. They are more so discriminated for as being "DYNAMIC" .. Kaep and Wilson are definitely Dynamic QBs, but hey, so is Luck
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Same old crap from Cosell. He evidently missed the passes threaded between defenders last week...and he always seems to miss those doesn't he? So sad that he has to recycle this nonsense. Safe? Yes, Smith plays it safe. But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down. Why folks still listen to Cosell is...easy to understand...it agrees with their misconceptions.

Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Cosell says early in the piece that Smith will not throw into coverage and yet there were two very good completions last game with defenders bracketing the receiver. According to Cosell Smith won't make those throws...so who was wearing #11 for KC last week? That was an error in his article and he perpetuates this myth with every comment on Smith.

Smith doesn't take unnecessary risks and so he is less likely to throw into coverage but that's a style, not an inability. My assessment of Smith's 3rd and longs--he did both things in the last game. I'm not saying he always does this...no QB does. So you can question my memory if you like but go watch his games from this year and you will see him do this. Very important plays and he kept the chains moving.

What's with the tendency of posters to take a straight comment on a few plays and call it bull because it isn't the case 100% of the time? Good grief, are we so addled that we can regard comments in any other way than general truisms?

As you can tell, I have little respect for Cosell's opinion when it comes to Smith...your point that he likes a downfield QB says it all...he's prejudiced.

I listen to Greg Cossell all the time and can say that he definitely has a love for strong armed QBs and a dislike of Alex Smith's "style". He's actually backed off of some of his harsher criticisms of AS. He does make some valid points about AS though.

An example of his love of strong armed QBs is his pre-draft evaluation of Jamarcus Russell. He love how Russell could just flick the ball 50 yards down the field while on the move. He thought that Russell should definitely be the first pick in the draft that year.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Same old crap from Cosell. He evidently missed the passes threaded between defenders last week...and he always seems to miss those doesn't he? So sad that he has to recycle this nonsense. Safe? Yes, Smith plays it safe. But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down. Why folks still listen to Cosell is...easy to understand...it agrees with their misconceptions.

Cosell does make some valid criticisms. I didn't find anything inaccurate in his analysis, other than he can't win more than 9 or 10 games. Alex proved he can win more than that.

Cosell and Jaworski in particular put a huge emphasis on arm strength and throwing downfield. They don't appreciate Alex's skill set even if it produces wins. I think Alex is a good QB, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend he doesn't have limitations. Alex does a great job playing to his strengths. I think he has great anticipation for the short routes, makes quick decisions, and has confidence throwing into tight windows in that area.

I have to question your assessment of Alex on 3rd and longs: "But when he needs a third and long? Either runs for a first down or completes an excellent pass for a first down." I don't think that's true. He rarely challenges the defense in those situations, instead choosing to check down and accept punting on 4th down. That was a constant criticism during his entire career in SF.

What he does do extremely well is throw on 1st and 10, creating great down and distance situations to run, use play-action, or continue to dink and dunk methodically up field.

Cosell says early in the piece that Smith will not throw into coverage and yet there were two very good completions last game with defenders bracketing the receiver. According to Cosell Smith won't make those throws...so who was wearing #11 for KC last week? That was an error in his article and he perpetuates this myth with every comment on Smith.

Smith doesn't take unnecessary risks and so he is less likely to throw into coverage but that's a style, not an inability. My assessment of Smith's 3rd and longs--he did both things in the last game. I'm not saying he always does this...no QB does. So you can question my memory if you like but go watch his games from this year and you will see him do this. Very important plays and he kept the chains moving.

What's with the tendency of posters to take a straight comment on a few plays and call it bull because it isn't the case 100% of the time? Good grief, are we so addled that we can regard comments in any other way than general truisms?

As you can tell, I have little respect for Cosell's opinion when it comes to Smith...your point that he likes a downfield QB says it all...he's prejudiced.

I listen to Greg Cossell all the time and can say that he definitely has a love for strong armed QBs and a dislike of Alex Smith's "style". He's actually backed off of some of his harsher criticisms of AS. He does make some valid points about AS though.

An example of his love of strong armed QBs is his pre-draft evaluation of Jamarcus Russell. He love how Russell could just flick the ball 50 yards down the field while on the move. He thought that Russell should definitely be the first pick in the draft that year.

you know AT, I think ummm, whats his name, Marshall Faulk said it after Smith was interviewed on the set of Thursday night football. " Many don't like the way Smith plays because we are so enamored with the high octane scoring offenses, but at the end of the day, the guys wins games."

And I have to say credit to you for actually saying u listen to Cossell. He has never been a big fan of Smith, but it was hilarious when he said some negative things about kaep, and Oh Lord, you would of thought someone was gonna get killed. Now he's crap, he doesn't know what he's talking about, crappy articles.... was just too funny.
@Souz123

There are so many arguments one could counter with to destroy your little theory, but what would be the point? You've convinced yourself.
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by vaden:
Cosell is infatuated with arm strength and deep passes, which totally goes against Bill Walsh's philosophy and the Niner QB Legacy. So of course he wouldn't like Alex. He sounds super objective and intelligent but if you actually examine his own work you'll find lots of flaws, as I and many others here have with his often ridiculous criticisms of Alex.

Cosell voiced his opinion on smith early on, like many, and as smith started to produce more, it was hard for him to retract his earlier views (no one likes to deal with the fact that they were wrong)

Cosell is right a lot more often than he is wrong. His problem with Alex Smith is not related to arm strength. He explained it very clearly in his last interview on KNBR. He said that while watching the film of the Chiefs-Eagles game, his opinion was that Smith simply didn't want to make certain throws that Cosell thought he should have tried. He thinks Smith is too careful. It's not arm strength, it's the mental approach to the game. Cosell also pretty much ridiculed Niner fans who believe Harbaugh made a mistake changing to Kaepernick. He said there is not one NFL executive or coach who, if given the choice, would pick Smith over Kaepernick to build an offense - that's his opinion. He also said he thinks Kaepernick shows the classic signs of being short on experience. He thinks Kaepernick needs more time to develop a more patient way of going through reads like the more experienced QB's do and he thinks Kaepernick needs to learn to read defense alignments better. He said that Smith does certain things better, but he thought that was because he had many more years of experience.