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How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

How many games will the Chiefs win PYMWYMI

Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Smithers was a spread QB in college so i dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it in the pro's the guy is really smart and has become a pretty solid QB over the years despite the hate he still gets around here form some

Agreed. And as it was intelligently stated in the article posted a few pages back, he is very capable of running a wide open offense. It was pretty much consensus that he was best from a shotgun, spread, chuck it around style. Harbaugh reeled him in and made him ultra conservative, especially in the red zone. It worked for the team's success, but then everyone labeled Smith a "game manager." I think he finally has a coach who will utilize him to all of his strengths. It should be interesting to watch.

That offense was primarily based on pre-snap reads that would always single out the weaker defender which is Alex's strength. It does not work as well vs more complicated and talented defenses where even if there is a mismatch on the 3rd cb with your 2nd or 3rd WR, the coverage still will be tighter than it was in college. THAT is why it would be much more difficult for Alex to have success in it the same way Brady has. The better QB's will still make the throw to the mismatch even if the coverage is tight. Alex will hold it longer or not throw at all.

Then how do you explain his red zone success prior to Harbaugh? The red zone is EXACTLY where QB's must do what you're talking about, and he was great at it until Harbaugh decided to run for three straight plays and kick field goals.

You mean a lot of the misdirection plays and play action? What does that have to do with the spread? I know he threw a handful of tight passes (normal for most QB's) in his career but most were wide open.

Now the bold is where his positive traits come into play. He has a top level ability to dissect a defense presnap and he is the reason why he finds the open receivers. Having said that, there has been many times where he will take the sack and that helps to not decrease his read zone passing stats. It's the age old question, is a player truly efficient or is it because his volume is much lower than other QB's?

There's a reason why Akers broke a record for most FG's made in a season.

I specifically said PRIOR to Harbaugh. We all know Alex was not good in the red zone in 2011. I just don't think it was his fault, and the stats back up what I'm saying.

So please, how do you explain his success prior to Harbaugh's arrival, in the red zone?

"I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I apologize if it has. Before Harbaugh became HC, the best facet of Smith's game was unquestionably his red-zone decision making and ad-libbing. In 2010, Smith led the league in redzone passer rating (112.8), throwing a whopping 13 TD's to 0 INT's, and, just in case you think this was a fluke, in 2009 he threw for 16 TD's and 0 INT's.

As soon as Harbaugh took over, his performance in the red-zone suffered. His completion pct. went from 70% in 2010 to 37% in 2011, and while he did throw 13 TD's again in 2011, he added 2 INT's.

In 2012 he threw 12 TD's and 2 INT's in the redzone over the first 8 games, but the INT's are deceiving. His comp pct. jumped to 74% in 2012 and over half of his attempts in the redzone went for TD's, which is pretty remarkable."

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Yeah, no real QBs actually study the defensive backfield to look for and expose favorable matchups. There can be no favorable matchups with guys like McCluster, Kelce, and Jamaal Charlies? is it? We have all heard that Alex just can't and refuses to throw into tight coverage like ever and stuff.

In order to be considered elite, the QB must close his eyes after he breaks the huddle, and not open them until the ball is snapped. Then make a decision. ELITE STATUS fulfilled!

And you guys wonder why conversations get carried away.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Smithers was a spread QB in college so i dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it in the pro's the guy is really smart and has become a pretty solid QB over the years despite the hate he still gets around here form some

Agreed. And as it was intelligently stated in the article posted a few pages back, he is very capable of running a wide open offense. It was pretty much consensus that he was best from a shotgun, spread, chuck it around style. Harbaugh reeled him in and made him ultra conservative, especially in the red zone. It worked for the team's success, but then everyone labeled Smith a "game manager." I think he finally has a coach who will utilize him to all of his strengths. It should be interesting to watch.

That offense was primarily based on pre-snap reads that would always single out the weaker defender which is Alex's strength. It does not work as well vs more complicated and talented defenses where even if there is a mismatch on the 3rd cb with your 2nd or 3rd WR, the coverage still will be tighter than it was in college. THAT is why it would be much more difficult for Alex to have success in it the same way Brady has. The better QB's will still make the throw to the mismatch even if the coverage is tight. Alex will hold it longer or not throw at all.

Then how do you explain his red zone success prior to Harbaugh? The red zone is EXACTLY where QB's must do what you're talking about, and he was great at it until Harbaugh decided to run for three straight plays and kick field goals.

You mean a lot of the misdirection plays and play action? What does that have to do with the spread? I know he threw a handful of tight passes (normal for most QB's) in his career but most were wide open.

Now the bold is where his positive traits come into play. He has a top level ability to dissect a defense presnap and he is the reason why he finds the open receivers. Having said that, there has been many times where he will take the sack and that helps to not decrease his read zone passing stats. It's the age old question, is a player truly efficient or is it because his volume is much lower than other QB's?

There's a reason why Akers broke a record for most FG's made in a season.

I specifically said PRIOR to Harbaugh. We all know Alex was not good in the red zone in 2011. I just don't think it was his fault, and the stats back up what I'm saying.

So please, how do you explain his success prior to Harbaugh's arrival, in the red zone?

"I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I apologize if it has. Before Harbaugh became HC, the best facet of Smith's game was unquestionably his red-zone decision making and ad-libbing. In 2010, Smith led the league in redzone passer rating (112.8), throwing a whopping 13 TD's to 0 INT's, and, just in case you think this was a fluke, in 2009 he threw for 16 TD's and 0 INT's.

As soon as Harbaugh took over, his performance in the red-zone suffered. His completion pct. went from 70% in 2010 to 37% in 2011, and while he did throw 13 TD's again in 2011, he added 2 INT's.

In 2012 he threw 12 TD's and 2 INT's in the redzone over the first 8 games, but the INT's are deceiving. His comp pct. jumped to 74% in 2012 and over half of his attempts in the redzone went for TD's, which is pretty remarkable."

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in

Smith's rating is meaningless in the red zone. Like I said, how many times didn't we score a TD because he can't or won't make the difficult throw?

Here's a more important stat for Smith's great 2010 red zone stats:http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 49ers, in 2010 were 25th in the league in scoring a TD when in the RedZone. There's a big difference between having nice stats in the RedZone and not leaving plays on the field in the RedZone. Smith has a pattern of seeing the receiver who is NFL open but not letting it go.


At the end of the day, Alex is great when the playcall is great. He struggles if the play doesn't work as planned or isn't the best play for that defense. Jim or was it Roman said it when Colin began starting, "You don't need to call plays for Colin." That was the biggest reason why Alex was benched permanently in SF. Reid better have a creative and patient OC.
[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 6, 2013 at 1:42 PM ]
Originally posted by Furlow:
So did you read the article?
yes
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Smithers was a spread QB in college so i dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it in the pro's the guy is really smart and has become a pretty solid QB over the years despite the hate he still gets around here form some

Agreed. And as it was intelligently stated in the article posted a few pages back, he is very capable of running a wide open offense. It was pretty much consensus that he was best from a shotgun, spread, chuck it around style. Harbaugh reeled him in and made him ultra conservative, especially in the red zone. It worked for the team's success, but then everyone labeled Smith a "game manager." I think he finally has a coach who will utilize him to all of his strengths. It should be interesting to watch.

That offense was primarily based on pre-snap reads that would always single out the weaker defender which is Alex's strength. It does not work as well vs more complicated and talented defenses where even if there is a mismatch on the 3rd cb with your 2nd or 3rd WR, the coverage still will be tighter than it was in college. THAT is why it would be much more difficult for Alex to have success in it the same way Brady has. The better QB's will still make the throw to the mismatch even if the coverage is tight. Alex will hold it longer or not throw at all.

Then how do you explain his red zone success prior to Harbaugh? The red zone is EXACTLY where QB's must do what you're talking about, and he was great at it until Harbaugh decided to run for three straight plays and kick field goals.

You mean a lot of the misdirection plays and play action? What does that have to do with the spread? I know he threw a handful of tight passes (normal for most QB's) in his career but most were wide open.

Now the bold is where his positive traits come into play. He has a top level ability to dissect a defense presnap and he is the reason why he finds the open receivers. Having said that, there has been many times where he will take the sack and that helps to not decrease his read zone passing stats. It's the age old question, is a player truly efficient or is it because his volume is much lower than other QB's?

There's a reason why Akers broke a record for most FG's made in a season.

I specifically said PRIOR to Harbaugh. We all know Alex was not good in the red zone in 2011. I just don't think it was his fault, and the stats back up what I'm saying.

So please, how do you explain his success prior to Harbaugh's arrival, in the red zone?

"I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I apologize if it has. Before Harbaugh became HC, the best facet of Smith's game was unquestionably his red-zone decision making and ad-libbing. In 2010, Smith led the league in redzone passer rating (112.8), throwing a whopping 13 TD's to 0 INT's, and, just in case you think this was a fluke, in 2009 he threw for 16 TD's and 0 INT's.

As soon as Harbaugh took over, his performance in the red-zone suffered. His completion pct. went from 70% in 2010 to 37% in 2011, and while he did throw 13 TD's again in 2011, he added 2 INT's.

In 2012 he threw 12 TD's and 2 INT's in the redzone over the first 8 games, but the INT's are deceiving. His comp pct. jumped to 74% in 2012 and over half of his attempts in the redzone went for TD's, which is pretty remarkable."

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in

Smith's rating is meaningless in the red zone. Like I said, how many times didn't we score a TD because he can't or won't make the difficult throw?

Here's a more important stat for Smith's great 2010 red zone stats:http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 49ers, in 2010 were 25th in the league in scoring a TD when in the RedZone. There's a big difference between having nice stats in the RedZone and not leaving plays on the field in the RedZone. Smith has a pattern of seeing the receiver who is NFL open but not letting it go.


At the end of the day, Alex is great when the playcall is great. He struggles if the play doesn't work as planned or isn't the best play for that defense. Jim or was it Roman said it when Colin began starting, "You don't need to call plays for Colin." That was the biggest reason why Alex was benched permanently in SF. Reid better have a creative and patient OC.

The bold is pure speculation and a big reason why your viewpoints are so readily attacked. Just absolutely no basis other than your "eye test."

His rating is irrelevant? Why, because you said so? I'll tell you what is irrelevant - you giving me TEAM stats to criticize one player. You do realize that teams run the ball in the red zone, right? Do you also realize that Alex only played in 11 games in 2010? So a huge chunk of the team stats that you're citing are meaningless in this discussion.

I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB. I'll take the efficient, smart QB who gradually takes more and more chances as he gains experience in the same system. That is building a QB legacy. Running around to buy time and throwing the ball really far to a wide open WR is also impressive, but is not sustainable for an entire career. So I'm not impressed by Harbaugh/Roman saying "you don't need to call plays for Kaepernick." That is utterly ridiculous. Yes, he's physically gifted, but how long is he going to be able to physically dominate his opponents? At the end of the day, the QB's who are successful in the NFL do it in the pocket, with their mind and decision making ability.

I don't want to derail this into another Smith/Kaepernick debate. They're completely different QB's. I just prefer Smith's style of play to Kaepernick's, that's all. And again, now that he has a coach, system, and surrounding cast that fit his style, I'm excited to watch.
Originally posted by Furlow:


I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB.

Jim Harbaugh disagrees with this statement.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Furlow:


I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB.

Jim Harbaugh disagrees with this statement.

Jim Harbaugh also lost the first Super Bowl in 49ers history, in large part due to inconsistent QB play. There is a downside to boom/bust type QB play.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB.

Jim Harbaugh disagrees with this statement.

Jim Harbaugh also lost the first Super Bowl in 49ers history, in large part due to inconsistent QB play. There is a downside to boom/bust type QB play.

You're contradicting yourself with this response!
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Smithers was a spread QB in college so i dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it in the pro's the guy is really smart and has become a pretty solid QB over the years despite the hate he still gets around here form some

Agreed. And as it was intelligently stated in the article posted a few pages back, he is very capable of running a wide open offense. It was pretty much consensus that he was best from a shotgun, spread, chuck it around style. Harbaugh reeled him in and made him ultra conservative, especially in the red zone. It worked for the team's success, but then everyone labeled Smith a "game manager." I think he finally has a coach who will utilize him to all of his strengths. It should be interesting to watch.

That offense was primarily based on pre-snap reads that would always single out the weaker defender which is Alex's strength. It does not work as well vs more complicated and talented defenses where even if there is a mismatch on the 3rd cb with your 2nd or 3rd WR, the coverage still will be tighter than it was in college. THAT is why it would be much more difficult for Alex to have success in it the same way Brady has. The better QB's will still make the throw to the mismatch even if the coverage is tight. Alex will hold it longer or not throw at all.

Then how do you explain his red zone success prior to Harbaugh? The red zone is EXACTLY where QB's must do what you're talking about, and he was great at it until Harbaugh decided to run for three straight plays and kick field goals.

You mean a lot of the misdirection plays and play action? What does that have to do with the spread? I know he threw a handful of tight passes (normal for most QB's) in his career but most were wide open.

Now the bold is where his positive traits come into play. He has a top level ability to dissect a defense presnap and he is the reason why he finds the open receivers. Having said that, there has been many times where he will take the sack and that helps to not decrease his read zone passing stats. It's the age old question, is a player truly efficient or is it because his volume is much lower than other QB's?

There's a reason why Akers broke a record for most FG's made in a season.

I specifically said PRIOR to Harbaugh. We all know Alex was not good in the red zone in 2011. I just don't think it was his fault, and the stats back up what I'm saying.

So please, how do you explain his success prior to Harbaugh's arrival, in the red zone?

"I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I apologize if it has. Before Harbaugh became HC, the best facet of Smith's game was unquestionably his red-zone decision making and ad-libbing. In 2010, Smith led the league in redzone passer rating (112.8), throwing a whopping 13 TD's to 0 INT's, and, just in case you think this was a fluke, in 2009 he threw for 16 TD's and 0 INT's.

As soon as Harbaugh took over, his performance in the red-zone suffered. His completion pct. went from 70% in 2010 to 37% in 2011, and while he did throw 13 TD's again in 2011, he added 2 INT's.

In 2012 he threw 12 TD's and 2 INT's in the redzone over the first 8 games, but the INT's are deceiving. His comp pct. jumped to 74% in 2012 and over half of his attempts in the redzone went for TD's, which is pretty remarkable."

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in

Smith's rating is meaningless in the red zone. Like I said, how many times didn't we score a TD because he can't or won't make the difficult throw?

Here's a more important stat for Smith's great 2010 red zone stats:http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 49ers, in 2010 were 25th in the league in scoring a TD when in the RedZone. There's a big difference between having nice stats in the RedZone and not leaving plays on the field in the RedZone. Smith has a pattern of seeing the receiver who is NFL open but not letting it go.


At the end of the day, Alex is great when the playcall is great. He struggles if the play doesn't work as planned or isn't the best play for that defense. Jim or was it Roman said it when Colin began starting, "You don't need to call plays for Colin." That was the biggest reason why Alex was benched permanently in SF. Reid better have a creative and patient OC.

The bold is pure speculation and a big reason why your viewpoints are so readily attacked. Just absolutely no basis other than your "eye test."

His rating is irrelevant? Why, because you said so? I'll tell you what is irrelevant - you giving me TEAM stats to criticize one player. You do realize that teams run the ball in the red zone, right? Do you also realize that Alex only played in 11 games in 2010? So a huge chunk of the team stats that you're citing are meaningless in this discussion.

I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB. I'll take the efficient, smart QB who gradually takes more and more chances as he gains experience in the same system. That is building a QB legacy. Running around to buy time and throwing the ball really far to a wide open WR is also impressive, but is not sustainable for an entire career. So I'm not impressed by Harbaugh/Roman saying "you don't need to call plays for Kaepernick." That is utterly ridiculous. Yes, he's physically gifted, but how long is he going to be able to physically dominate his opponents? At the end of the day, the QB's who are successful in the NFL do it in the pocket, with their mind and decision making ability.

I don't want to derail this into another Smith/Kaepernick debate. They're completely different QB's. I just prefer Smith's style of play to Kaepernick's, that's all. And again, now that he has a coach, system, and surrounding cast that fit his style, I'm excited to watch.

Agreed, I don't want to get into any Alex/Kap debates. My point was that Alex may have very good red zone stats, but an offense is called to it's strengths, for the most part and wanted to show that his stats did not translate to making the team better.

I think the eye test is just as or more important to evaluating a player than stats are. Take Manning last night. Stats showed a greatest game ever but the QB I saw out there, was not great at all.

Stats also do not display how a player affects how the players around him play. We make arguments using different methods but neither of us are completely wrong. That is why I can say that Alex is great, if things go as planned and even then, he will hesitate on the safe side. That's why you can say, Alex is a top 5-15 QB because you can compare his numbers to QB's ranked that high.

Getting back to the original point: KC is not hiding much of their offense because past history is that an OC calls and designs plays according to mostly his QB. OC's have rarely hidden plays when it came to Alex. In actuality, Jim called plays to the strength of the other plays such as the fly sweep, or trap play for Gore,...

I did see Jim begin to call plays to his QB's strengths when a different QB that displayed strengths started. There must be a logical reason for it, right?
[ Edited by Joecool on Sep 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Smithers was a spread QB in college so i dont see why he wouldnt be able to do it in the pro's the guy is really smart and has become a pretty solid QB over the years despite the hate he still gets around here form some

Agreed. And as it was intelligently stated in the article posted a few pages back, he is very capable of running a wide open offense. It was pretty much consensus that he was best from a shotgun, spread, chuck it around style. Harbaugh reeled him in and made him ultra conservative, especially in the red zone. It worked for the team's success, but then everyone labeled Smith a "game manager." I think he finally has a coach who will utilize him to all of his strengths. It should be interesting to watch.

That offense was primarily based on pre-snap reads that would always single out the weaker defender which is Alex's strength. It does not work as well vs more complicated and talented defenses where even if there is a mismatch on the 3rd cb with your 2nd or 3rd WR, the coverage still will be tighter than it was in college. THAT is why it would be much more difficult for Alex to have success in it the same way Brady has. The better QB's will still make the throw to the mismatch even if the coverage is tight. Alex will hold it longer or not throw at all.

Then how do you explain his red zone success prior to Harbaugh? The red zone is EXACTLY where QB's must do what you're talking about, and he was great at it until Harbaugh decided to run for three straight plays and kick field goals.

You mean a lot of the misdirection plays and play action? What does that have to do with the spread? I know he threw a handful of tight passes (normal for most QB's) in his career but most were wide open.

Now the bold is where his positive traits come into play. He has a top level ability to dissect a defense presnap and he is the reason why he finds the open receivers. Having said that, there has been many times where he will take the sack and that helps to not decrease his read zone passing stats. It's the age old question, is a player truly efficient or is it because his volume is much lower than other QB's?

There's a reason why Akers broke a record for most FG's made in a season.

I specifically said PRIOR to Harbaugh. We all know Alex was not good in the red zone in 2011. I just don't think it was his fault, and the stats back up what I'm saying.

So please, how do you explain his success prior to Harbaugh's arrival, in the red zone?

"I have not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I apologize if it has. Before Harbaugh became HC, the best facet of Smith's game was unquestionably his red-zone decision making and ad-libbing. In 2010, Smith led the league in redzone passer rating (112.8), throwing a whopping 13 TD's to 0 INT's, and, just in case you think this was a fluke, in 2009 he threw for 16 TD's and 0 INT's.

As soon as Harbaugh took over, his performance in the red-zone suffered. His completion pct. went from 70% in 2010 to 37% in 2011, and while he did throw 13 TD's again in 2011, he added 2 INT's.

In 2012 he threw 12 TD's and 2 INT's in the redzone over the first 8 games, but the INT's are deceiving. His comp pct. jumped to 74% in 2012 and over half of his attempts in the redzone went for TD's, which is pretty remarkable."

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9/1/4684932/alex-smith-and-the-run-game-alex-smith-and-the-defense-alex-smith-in

Smith's rating is meaningless in the red zone. Like I said, how many times didn't we score a TD because he can't or won't make the difficult throw?

Here's a more important stat for Smith's great 2010 red zone stats:http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 49ers, in 2010 were 25th in the league in scoring a TD when in the RedZone. There's a big difference between having nice stats in the RedZone and not leaving plays on the field in the RedZone. Smith has a pattern of seeing the receiver who is NFL open but not letting it go.


At the end of the day, Alex is great when the playcall is great. He struggles if the play doesn't work as planned or isn't the best play for that defense. Jim or was it Roman said it when Colin began starting, "You don't need to call plays for Colin." That was the biggest reason why Alex was benched permanently in SF. Reid better have a creative and patient OC.

The bold is pure speculation and a big reason why your viewpoints are so readily attacked. Just absolutely no basis other than your "eye test."

His rating is irrelevant? Why, because you said so? I'll tell you what is irrelevant - you giving me TEAM stats to criticize one player. You do realize that teams run the ball in the red zone, right? Do you also realize that Alex only played in 11 games in 2010? So a huge chunk of the team stats that you're citing are meaningless in this discussion.

I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB. I'll take the efficient, smart QB who gradually takes more and more chances as he gains experience in the same system. That is building a QB legacy. Running around to buy time and throwing the ball really far to a wide open WR is also impressive, but is not sustainable for an entire career. So I'm not impressed by Harbaugh/Roman saying "you don't need to call plays for Kaepernick." That is utterly ridiculous. Yes, he's physically gifted, but how long is he going to be able to physically dominate his opponents? At the end of the day, the QB's who are successful in the NFL do it in the pocket, with their mind and decision making ability.

I don't want to derail this into another Smith/Kaepernick debate. They're completely different QB's. I just prefer Smith's style of play to Kaepernick's, that's all. And again, now that he has a coach, system, and surrounding cast that fit his style, I'm excited to watch.

Agreed, I don't want to get into any Alex/Kap debates. My point was that Alex may have very good red zone stats, but an offense is called to it's strengths, for the most part and wanted to show that his stats did not translate to making the team better.

I think the eye test is just as or more important to evaluating a player than stats are. Take Manning last night. Stats showed a greatest game ever but the QB I saw out there, was not great at all.

Stats also do not display how a player affects how the players around him play. We make arguments using different methods but neither of us are completely wrong. That is why I can say that Alex is great, if things go as planned and even then, he will hesitate on the safe side. That's why you can say, Alex is a top 5-15 QB because you can compare his numbers to QB's ranked that high.

Getting back to the original point: KC is not hiding much of their offense because past history is that an OC calls and designs plays according to mostly his QB. OC's have rarely hidden plays when it came to Alex. In actuality, Jim called plays to the strength of the other plays such as the fly sweep, or trap play for Gore,...

I did see Jim begin to call plays to his QB's strengths when a different QB that displayed strengths started. There must be a logical reason for it, right?

It's obvious by now that Smith was never Jim's guy. He just didn't want Alex to mess anything up so that he could get his guy in there.

And I thought Harbaugh didn't need to call plays for Kaepernick?
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Furlow:
I won't argue with you that Alex is not good at running around and making a play out of nothing. But to me, that is not the measure of a good/great QB.

Jim Harbaugh disagrees with this statement.

Jim Harbaugh also lost the first Super Bowl in 49ers history, in large part due to inconsistent QB play. There is a downside to boom/bust type QB play.

You're contradicting yourself with this response!

No I'm not.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Agreed, I don't want to get into any Alex/Kap debates. My point was that Alex may have very good red zone stats, but an offense is called to it's strengths, for the most part and wanted to show that his stats did not translate to making the team better.

How could Alex not have been making his team better? What was it? 6 assisted comebacks for victories in 2011? Teaching the players the basics during the lockout? Protecting the football and taking advantage of a strong defense and STs? Having a top 10 rating in efficiency?

If you really don't think that's making a young, evolving team better, then no one can really help you see the light by now.

I think the eye test is just as or more important to evaluating a player than stats are. Take Manning last night. Stats showed a greatest game ever but the QB I saw out there, was not great at all.

For the eye test to have even a chance to work, it requires an objective eye. Everyone knows that yours is far from objective.

So how is old J.T. O'Sullivan doing, by the way? seriously... is he on a team's roster these days? Has he been relevant at any point?
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Agreed, I don't want to get into any Alex/Kap debates. My point was that Alex may have very good red zone stats, but an offense is called to it's strengths, for the most part and wanted to show that his stats did not translate to making the team better.

How could Alex not have been making his team better? What was it? 6 assisted comebacks for victories in 2011? Teaching the players the basics during the lockout? Protecting the football and taking advantage of a strong defense and STs? Having a top 10 rating in efficiency?

If you really don't think that's making a young, evolving team better, then no one can really help you see the light by now.

I think the eye test is just as or more important to evaluating a player than stats are. Take Manning last night. Stats showed a greatest game ever but the QB I saw out there, was not great at all.

For the eye test to have even a chance to work, it requires an objective eye. Everyone knows that yours is far from objective.

So how is old J.T. O'Sullivan doing, by the way? seriously... is he on a team's roster these days? Has he been relevant at any point?

I actually know JT very well, we played together in college and he's living down here in San Diego. He's a really good flag football player, a beast at WR!
Originally posted by Furlow:
I actually know JT very well, we played together in college and he's living down here in San Diego. He's a really good flag football player, a beast at WR!

cool! I miss reading about joec's eye test on ole JTO. Maybe Jim should have given him a call... I'd rather see him as # 2 over McCoy.
Originally posted by Joecool:

I think the eye test is just as or more important to evaluating a player than stats are. Take Manning last night. Stats showed a greatest game ever but the QB I saw out there, was not great at all.