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Is the NFL ready for an Openly Gay Player

Is the NFL ready for an Openly Gay Player

"They can CHOOSE to lay with whomever they want…"

That's exactly my point. They chose. Not society.

Therefore, it is a personal decision that IMO, like all other personal decisions, should be kept just that. I don't need to know about, let alone accept someone else's lifestyle anymore than they need to accept anything about mine. You like Coke and I like Pepsi. You like Fruity Pebbles (pun not intended I swear), and I like Capn' Crunch. You drink Jack and I'm a Henny man. So?

Beyond your God given inalienable rights, the idea that someone HAS to be accepting of YOUR lifestyle decisions is throughly absurd.

Get over yourself.

"Do you have any idea how many gay kids KILL THEMSELVES because they are gay and are ashamed of themselves?"

Again dude, you're smarter than this. Kids also kill themselves because they get picked on for being skinny, fat, wearing glasses, ugly shoes and all kinds of other ridiculous crap. The point? Kids aren't the best equipped to deal with emotional stress. That has been true since the beginning of time. Homosexuality is hardly unique in that regard.

"The bottom line tho is that they have an attraction they can't control."

Who asking them to? I simply stated that they have a CHOICE in all this that does NOT need to be accepted by others. So, just like they made the choice to live their life in a certain way, they can choose to not give a damn what anyone thinks about it. Why is that so hard to understand? Furthermore, I'm going to have to ask you to cut it with these BS generalizations about gays.

Absent some published, peer-reviewed research good Doctor, I have to admit that I have serious doubts about the depth of your scientific abilities as it pertains to homosexuality.

"This crap you are saying is the PROBLEM…"

Please. I have a gay brother (older) and sister (younger). My brother just kind of did his thing and no one asked questions. His CHOICE was always accepted in my family and it was never a problem. My sister on the other hand ("pretty princess" she is), felt it necessary to have a full blown press conference for her "coming out." Know what I said? I told her just what I'd tell anyone else. I don't look at you as my "gay sister"(or friend, co-worker, etc). I look at you as my sister; full stop. So, seeing her with another woman matters about as much as seeing one of my hetero brothers with a woman does. That is, I don't care.

They're living their lives and NEITHER case merits any kind special recognition. So when I say that most people (where I'm from at least) don't care until someone tries to make some kind of world altering event, I speak from personal experience.

"Ya know what tho....we don't get them anymore. Ya know why? People got over it."

I guarantee that you would have been much happier had you been focused on enjoying the time with your wife instead instead of what kind of looks you were getting. Though, I have to say that this captures my point perfectly.

If you're with the one you love, living life the way you see fit, nothing else should matter.
[ Edited by baltien on Apr 14, 2013 at 4:04 PM ]
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
The point is to bring attention to it so that we can evetually NOT have to give it any attention.

Its like a black QB. Its like interracial marriage. Do you really think gay athletes WANT the attention? If they did then they would ALREADY be out.

The point is that they should be able to be themselves without having to feel threatened.

Once a few players come out...the media has their run with it, players say all their is to say....it will THEN no longer be an issue. Remember all the talk about Doug Williams being a black QB in the Super Bowl? Did we see ANY of that this year in regards to Kaep?

No. Its become a fairly normal thing.

It will be a story till it isn't. Thats the point.

Uh, no.

Likening the gay movement to civil rights is both illogical and offensive. Millions of blacks died before the U.S. saw fit to even recognize us as human beings. Last I checked, nobody is being tied to a pickup truck and dragged down the street (and subsequently beheaded), or sodomized with a plunger by police because they're gay.

That is my entire problem with this whole discussion. If an NFL player tomorrow announced he is homosexual, I'm sure he *may* be treated differently by some of his teammates but ultimately that's where it stops. His life will go on as will those around him.

What this boils down to is a certain group of people are in a tizzy because they feel like the world needs to be more accepting of what is a PERSONAL choice. Getting all bent out of shape and taking to the streets because someone has a different opinion about your lifestyle be it on the basis of sexuality, religion, or anything in between is a complete waste of energy.

You're not going to change the mind of the bigoted. And so long as that person isn't a threat to you, why the hell do you even care to?


Uh yes.

You are just digging the hole deeper.

I likened it to Black QBs in the NFL, not the entire civil rights movement. Even if I had, you'd still be wrong. Is that the barometer now? We base our judgements on how much the people in question have suffered. If a gay kid gets dragged behind a truck, THEN is it OK to make a big deal? If thousands die....is THAT the time to take a stand? I'd like to think we've made some progress and those things aren't necessary to do the right thing. I'm sorry you're offended, but I don't think you have any right to be.

Personal Choice? Right there....you just destroyed your entire argument. THAT is the crux of the issue. ITS NOT A CHOICE. You are gay or you are not. Gay people don't DECIDE to be gay. Many of them would NOT be gay if given the choice simply because the world is a much more fogiving place if you are not.

Your reaction is simply more evidense as to WHY this needs to be a bigger issue to begin with. Your comments show what SO MANY people think....and you are wrong. That's not the way it works.

I gotta be honest. This conversation is dissappointing. Especially in 2013.

You know what bothers me about this whole topic? Not at all that we should accept gays or whatever the argument is. What bothers me is that anything involving someones personal sexuality is relevant in any way. Why should anybody give a f**k what these guys do behind closed doors? What business is it of ours or anybody's where you choose to get your sexual thrills?

It frustrates me that we are even discussing this. Does a player being gay effect how fast he can run or how hard he can hit? If not then shut the f**k up about it because it doesn't mean s**t. Next we should start discussing openly vegetarian players, openly pro-abortion players, openly republican players, openly lactose intolerant players, and openly allergic to walnuts players. See what I am getting at? This means nothing to us or players who are associated with these guys. The extent of our relationship with them is we are fans of the teams they play for. As far as their teammates go they are just that teammates and they don't have any business knowing who their fellow player f**ks on the weekend in the first place.

I don't believe sexuality is something you have to declare except to maybe your intimate partner. It just bothers me that this is even a thing to begin with.

BTW this is in no way a shot at your posts Marvin I think you made some really valid points as always I just wanted to vent a little.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Nobody says they have to hide it, and I doubt there's much backlash inside the locker room. For every Chris Culliver you're going to find his supporters as well. The actual problem is just as much the press clamoring to make this guy into the next Jackie Robinson. There's millions of dollars at stake here. Nobody wants that circus. If you're black there's no avoiding it, but if you're gay you can.

Would you want every single press conference to be bombarded with questions about some dude's relationship and how the team is handling it? I know if I was a gay player I'd be trying to avoid that distraction for my team's sake.

THANK YOU. The issue isn't that the NFL isn't accepting of gays. Based on probability alone, I'm pretty sure that there have been some obviously gay dudes in the league and it wasn't a problem at all. And them CHOOSING to not put their lives on display for some trivial "cause" does not make them bad people.

What irks me about this whole thing is people are looking to find a problem where there isn't one.
[ Edited by baltien on Apr 14, 2013 at 3:51 PM ]
Originally posted by BayArea:
You know what bothers me about this whole topic? Not at all that we should accept gays or whatever the argument is. What bothers me is that anything involving someones personal sexuality is relevant in any way. Why should anybody give a f**k what these guys do behind closed doors? What business is it of ours or anybody's where you choose to get your sexual thrills?

It frustrates me that we are even discussing this. Does a player being gay effect how fast he can run or how hard he can hit? If not then shut the f**k up about it because it doesn't mean s**t. Next we should start discussing openly vegetarian players, openly pro-abortion players, openly republican players, openly lactose intolerant players, and openly allergic to walnuts players. See what I am getting at? This means nothing to us or players who are associated with these guys. The extent of our relationship with them is we are fans of the teams they play for. As far as their teammates go they are just that teammates and they don't have any business knowing who their fellow player f**ks on the weekend in the first place.

I don't believe sexuality is something you have to declare except to maybe your intimate partner. It just bothers me that this is even a thing to begin with.

BTW this is in no way a shot at your posts Marvin I think you made some really valid points as always I just wanted to vent a little.


^Listen to this man.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,393
Originally posted by Marvin49:

THAT was the point I was making in regards to the Black QB. It was a story when Doug Williams was the first Black QB in the Super Bowl. It wasn't a story anymore when Kaep was in the Super Bowl. Thats progress.

Is Collin Kaepernick a black quarterback?

I know he is a quarterback. But, is he black.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
THAT was the point I was making in regards to the Black QB. It was a story when Doug Williams was the first Black QB in the Super Bowl. It wasn't a story anymore when Kaep was in the Super Bowl. Thats progress.

Is Collin Kaepernick a black quarterback?

I know he is a quarterback. But, is he black.

He's half black. And you know what they say. One drop.
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
THAT was the point I was making in regards to the Black QB. It was a story when Doug Williams was the first Black QB in the Super Bowl. It wasn't a story anymore when Kaep was in the Super Bowl. Thats progress.

Is Collin Kaepernick a black quarterback?

I know he is a quarterback. But, is he black.

He's half black. And you know what they say. One drop.

Few people know that once upon a time, that was a real law.
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
THAT was the point I was making in regards to the Black QB. It was a story when Doug Williams was the first Black QB in the Super Bowl. It wasn't a story anymore when Kaep was in the Super Bowl. Thats progress.

Is Collin Kaepernick a black quarterback?

I know he is a quarterback. But, is he black.

He's half black. And you know what they say. One drop.



one drop of semen......

"Do you have any idea how many gay kids KILL THEMSELVES because they are gay and are ashamed of themselves?"

Again dude, you're smarter than this. Kids also kill themselves because they get picked on for being skinny, fat, wearing glasses, ugly shoes and all kinds of other ridiculous crap. The point? Kids aren't the best equipped to deal with emotional stress. That has been true since the beginning of time. Homosexuality is hardly unique in that regard.

And that's okay with you? If we can make some progress to eliminate ONE of the social contributors to kids' suicides, shouldn't we do everything we can to do so? Unless you simply accept some kids' suicides as an inevitable fact of life.

You may believe you have the right to reject someone else's "lifestyle" as you term it, but by the same token others have the right to be who they are, i.e. gay or bisexual or whatever. But when these competing rights become mutually exclusive, the question becomes: which right is more important and which causes the greater harm? The right to be oneself, free of judjement or condemnation, trumps your right to be disturbed by or uncomfortable with people different than you. What's more, you have it in your power to broaden your mind and adjust your point of view, whereas a person cannot change their sexual orientation.
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Nobody says they have to hide it, and I doubt there's much backlash inside the locker room. For every Chris Culliver you're going to find his supporters as well. The actual problem is just as much the press clamoring to make this guy into the next Jackie Robinson. There's millions of dollars at stake here. Nobody wants that circus. If you're black there's no avoiding it, but if you're gay you can.

Would you want every single press conference to be bombarded with questions about some dude's relationship and how the team is handling it? I know if I was a gay player I'd be trying to avoid that distraction for my team's sake.

THANK YOU. The issue isn't that the NFL isn't accepting of gays. Based on probability alone, I'm pretty sure that there have been some obviously gay dudes in the league and it wasn't a problem at all. And them CHOOSING to not put their lives on display for some trivial "cause" does not make them bad people.

What irks me about this whole thing is people are looking to find a problem where there isn't one.

No, gay players choosing to keep their orientation out of the public eye does not make them bad people. And It's true that a player coming out might cause a media distraction that could be detrimental to the team. But that itself is the problem. The cause is not "trivial" as you say. If it was, why would the Supreme Court address the constitutionality of state's denying same-sex marriage in our country? Why would players like Brendon Ayanbadejo and Chris Kluwe campaign tirelessly to combat homophobia in NFL locker rooms? Someone will have to be the first to come out in order to break the boundary for others in the future.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,393
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
He's half black. And you know what they say. One drop.

I was kind of hoping that was what they USED TO say.
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
And that's okay with you? If we can make some progress to eliminate ONE of the social contributors to kids' suicides, shouldn't we do everything we can to do so? Unless you simply accept some kids' suicides as an inevitable fact of life.

You may believe you have the right to reject someone else's "lifestyle" as you term it, but by the same token others have the right to be who they are, i.e. gay or bisexual or whatever. But when these competing rights become mutually exclusive, the question becomes: which right is more important and which causes the greater harm? The right to be oneself, free of judjement or condemnation, trumps your right to be disturbed by or uncomfortable with people different than you. What's more, you have it in your power to broaden your mind and adjust your point of view, whereas a person cannot change their sexual orientation.

Maybe you should read what I wrote before cherry picking quotes to criticize. I never, at any point, said that I'm disturbed or otherwise have any bad feelings about a person being gay as I have gay siblings.

What I did say however, is that I don't personally care if a person a gay just as I don't care if they're straight. Neither requires any kind of special recognition or validation in my book and they most certainly do not require a national discussion.

Moreover, my point was that people need to get past this idea that everyone has to accept your lifestyle choices.

Fact: not everybody is going to approve of everything you do.

Welcome to real life. Enjoy your stay.
[ Edited by baltien on Apr 14, 2013 at 5:56 PM ]
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
No, gay players choosing to keep their orientation out of the public eye does not make them bad people. And It's true that a player coming out might cause a media distraction that could be detrimental to the team. But that itself is the problem. The cause is not "trivial" as you say. If it was, why would the Supreme Court address the constitutionality of state's denying same-sex marriage in our country? Why would players like Brendon Ayanbadejo and Chris Kluwe campaign tirelessly to combat homophobia in NFL locker rooms? Someone will have to be the first to come out in order to break the boundary for others in the future.

And what boundary would that be?

Did I miss something where a gay player was booted off a team because of his sexual preferences?

While we're talking about it, can you tell me of ONE known obstacle that prevents a gay player from coming out if they so choose (and not your assumptions)? Is being gay a violation of your contract? Will it result in you being immediately released? Thrown in jail? Publicly cained maybe?

No? Then, what exactly are we talking about here?
Just think about the new potential relationships that could come out of this. The new openly gay E harmany NFL. Find your partner and play Football.
Originally posted by baltien:
Maybe you should read what I wrote before cherry picking quotes to criticize. I never, at any point, said that I'm disturbed or otherwise have any bad feelings about a person being gay as I have gay siblings.

What I did say however, is that I don't personally care if a person a gay just as I don't care if they're straight. Neither requires any kind of special recognition or validation in my book and they most certainly do not require a national discussion.

Moreover, my point was that people need to get past this idea that everyone has to accept your lifestyle choices.

Fact: not everybody is going to approve of everything you do.

Welcome to real life. Enjoy your stay.

Not everyone need approve of all of an individual's "lifestyle choices," like whether they prefer Coke or Pepsi as you said before. But sexual orientation is something else altogether, something which is a fundamental pillar of most people's identity. It is not yours or anyone else's place to approve or disapprove of another adult's private life, provided they are not committing immoral or criminal acts.
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